News War with Russia

Scouse

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Deebs said:
@Scouse You do realise that if Russia didn't start the war none of this would be happening. If Russia invaded the UK would you be the first to hand over your chickens and welcome them? I would not. They are the cause/issue/instigators of everything that is happening in Europe. THEY FUCKING STARTED IT, EUROPE WAS PEACEFUL BEFORE PUTIN DECIDED TO INVADE ANOTHER COUNTRY.
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How many times do I have to say I support Ukraine, Russia are wankers, before people get that? I even changed my sig to it.

However, support of Ukraine - of any country - is conditional on them NOT risking all of Europe.

This is NOT a playground argument. The risk to all of us is real. Ukraine doesn't get carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they like just because someone else "started it".
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
On the other hand
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"Whataboutism" at it's best there Wij.

We can abhor the invason, we can and should do absolutely everythng we can to help these desparate people. But that position isn't "either/or" with demanding they don't cause a nuclear incident.

The IAEA say that the dangers are real. That's, like the invasion, is inexcuseable.
 
Deebs

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Scouse said:
How many times do I have to say I support Ukraine, Russia are wankers, before people get that? I even changed my sig to it.

However, support of Ukraine - of any country - is conditional on them NOT risking all of Europe.

This is NOT a playground argument. The risk to all of us is real. Ukraine doesn't get carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they like just because someone else "started it".
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They have every right to defend their country as do we. Russians on UK soil, we would bomb them to fuck, regardless of their position. But with PRECISE weapons, NATO/UK supplied weapons, much like those supplied to the UA.
 
BloodOmen

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Russia apparently getting money from investors with 'IOU'S' $13billion so far allegedly, they must be really fucking hard up if they're turning to outside investment now. No way they can afford to keep this going much longer.

Edit: To add to this, by how Zelensky is talking, Ukraine's ultimate goal is to recapture Crimea.

I hope they do, I really fucking do... that would be the biggest slap in the face the Ukraine could give Russia atm, retaking Crimea.
 
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Wij

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Scouse said:
"Whataboutism" at it's best there Wij.

We can abhor the invason, we can and should do absolutely everythng we can to help these desparate people. But that position isn't "either/or" with demanding they don't cause a nuclear incident.

The IAEA say that the dangers are real. That's, like the invasion, is inexcuseable.
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It’s not whataboutism. It’s context. As per the bit you ignored, direct hits on the reactors aren’t going to cause millions of deaths. Russia’s targeting of health and energy could do.

You also ignored the well established reasons that Russia would try a false flag. Namely to erode support for arming Ukraine. Western weapons, along with Ukrainian lives, are what is stopping Russia from conquering the country. Ukraine cannot fight without weapons. Pretending that Ukraine commits atrocities with them and/or sells them on the dark web is something that Russia has done since even before the war started.
 
Scouse

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Deebs said:
They have every right to defend their country as do we. Russians on UK soil, we would bomb them to fuck, regardless of their position.
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I'm with you 100% - until your last 4 words, because precise weapons malfunction, so it's not worth the risk.
 
BloodOmen

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Deebs said:
They have every right to defend their country as do we. Russians on UK soil, we would bomb them to fuck, regardless of their position. But with PRECISE weapons, NATO/UK supplied weapons, much like those supplied to the UA.
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Agreed. Also, Russians on our soil? they'd be fucking dead overnight. We might be a small nation but when push comes to shove, our armed forces do not fuck around. The Falklands alone should remind the rest of the world just how quickly we can get mobilized if it even arose and that was thousands of miles away. On our own soil un-trained Russian soldiers wouldn't last the week.
 
BloodOmen

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Scouse said:
www.theguardian.com

Britain was meant to be supporting fleeing Ukrainians. Instead, we’re failing them | Keir Giles

The government left the job of helping refugees to local authorities and volunteers. Now the system is at risk of collapse, says author Keir Giles
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

:(
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Going to get some major flak for this but we're failing them because we're being swamped by the amount of migrants arriving by boats. All for helping migrants fleeing war or countries like iran where they can be killed if they go back, I think anything outside of 'War' and 'Major political issues' should be sent packing.

Sorry but not sorry.

Rwanda Plane plan go. Stick your human rights up your arse. School placements are hurting, doctors are hurting, housing it hurting. We have to draw a line somewhere, even if the lovey dovies don't agree. If you aren't fleeing war or some sort of persecution you can fuck off quite frankly.
 
DaGaffer

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BloodOmen said:
Going to get some major flak for this but we're failing them because we're being swamped by the amount of migrants arriving by boats. All for helping migrants fleeing war or countries like iran where they can be killed if they go back, I think anything outside of 'War' and 'Major political issues' should be sent packing.

Sorry but not sorry.

Rwanda Plane plan go. Stick your human rights up your arse. School placements are hurting, doctors are hurting, housing it hurting. We have to draw a line somewhere, even if the lovey dovies don't agree. If you aren't fleeing war or some sort of persecution you can fuck off quite frankly.
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Did you actually bother to read the article? You're failing them because of incompetence. Not other migrants, just basic, run of the mill, British government fuckwittery.

And no, you're not being swamped by migrants in dinghies. Jesus wept, have you learned nothing from the constant lying? "No, don't look over here at the economic disaster we created, look over there at those darkies sneaking in in rubber boats, that we also created".
 
Gwadien

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BloodOmen said:
Going to get some major flak for this but we're failing them because we're being swamped by the amount of migrants arriving by boats. All for helping migrants fleeing war or countries like iran where they can be killed if they go back, I think anything outside of 'War' and 'Major political issues' should be sent packing.

Sorry but not sorry.

Rwanda Plane plan go. Stick your human rights up your arse. School placements are hurting, doctors are hurting, housing it hurting. We have to draw a line somewhere, even if the lovey dovies don't agree. If you aren't fleeing war or some sort of persecution you can fuck off quite frankly.
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Swamped.

Lmao.

Omg look how much we're having to pay hotel chains to put those pesky immigrants somewhere! Let's play a game of find the Tory donor.
 
BloodOmen

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Wij said:
lol. mentions of Russia = 0

www.who.int

Statement – Winter in Ukraine: people’s health cannot be held hostage

Dobri vechir.Good evening from Kyiv.This winter will be life-threatening for millions of people in Ukraine. The devastating energy crisis, the deepening mental health emergency, constraints on humanitarian access and the risk of viral infections will make this winter a formidable test for the...
www.who.int www.who.int
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This is the same 'Who' that turned a blind eye to China when Corona had just hit :p?
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
lol. mentions of Russia = 0

www.who.int

Statement – Winter in Ukraine: people’s health cannot be held hostage

Dobri vechir.Good evening from Kyiv.This winter will be life-threatening for millions of people in Ukraine. The devastating energy crisis, the deepening mental health emergency, constraints on humanitarian access and the risk of viral infections will make this winter a formidable test for the...
www.who.int www.who.int
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What do you want from the WHO? They're not a lobbying organisation - and it's pretty explicit in there what the challenges are and why the challenges are there (destroyed infrastructure etc).

Now you're knocking the WHO for being laser-focussed on their mandate? I.E. health issues.

It's not the WHO's place to moan about war - health and health messaging only.
 
BloodOmen

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DaGaffer said:
Ukrainians taking out long range Russian bombers in their own airbases. Ballsy.
Explosions rock two Russian airbases far from Ukraine frontline | Russia | The Guardian
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Good. As insignificant as people might think that is, it's huge... absolute fucking pipe dream at this point but imagine... just imagine if Zelensky manages to not only retake the Ukraine territories captured, but manages to oust Putin too? obviously this like a 1/1,000,000 scenario but just imagine the historical value of it? it'd be truly legendary to be alive during that.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
www.washingtonexaminer.com

Ukraine’s Jews denounce myth of rampant Nazism - Washington Examiner

Jewish Ukrainians want the world to know that their country does not have a significant Nazi problem and that attempts to smear Kyiv as a Nazi-led regime are nothing more than "Russian propaganda." The Nazi myth has infuriated Ukraine’s Jews. Not only does it ignore their voices. It puts Jewish...
www.washingtonexaminer.com www.washingtonexaminer.com
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Didn't think it was ever really a thing myself despite Russia's bullshit.

Ultra-nationalist wankers are certainly there in signifcant numbers though.

Still. Support Ukraine.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
Jesus. Read the thread.
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Fuck no. I started, but lost the will to live.

It's fucking horrid reading twitter. But this tweet:

1671666184226.png

"This tweet is entirely false" - followed by Greenwald's factual tweet and link to NYT.
 
Wij

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It's not all $44 billion over 10 months. It's not $100 billion over 10 months. If it all gets spent it will be over a much longer period. It's not all military aid, much of it is help with rebuilding infrastructure for instance. Russia's NORMAL military budget is $65 billion but they've spent massively more this year.

Basically every figure is wrong in at least one respect.

Why not take the 2 minutes to read the short thread instead of complaining that's it's all too confusing.
 
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Scouse said:
Fuck no. I started, but lost the will to live.

It's fucking horrid reading twitter. But this tweet:

View attachment 47422

"This tweet is entirely false" - followed by Greenwald's factual tweet and link to NYT.
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"...this tweet is basically entirely false". What's the point of trying to argue against something when you can't even be arsed to read a couple of tweets...
 
DaGaffer

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Scouse said:
And the beeb:


22:18 -

Entirely false?
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Oh come on, even 2 seconds of critical thinking would tell you the US Congress doesn't just find $44bn down the back of the sofa and send it to Zelensky; so it has to be next year's appropriation, which means the "10 months" thing is definitely bullshit.

My second thought is, even if the US ends up sending $100bn or more to Ukraine, so fucking what? They spend eight times that on their own defence budget every year and Ukraine are doing their job for them.
 
Scouse

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DaGaffer said:
Oh come on, even 2 seconds of critical thinking would tell you the US Congress doesn't just find $44bn down the back of the sofa and send it to Zelensky; so it has to be next year's appropriation, which means the "10 months" thing is definitely bullshit.

My second thought is, even if the US ends up sending $100bn or more to Ukraine, so fucking what? They spend eight times that on their own defence budget every year and Ukraine are doing their job for them.
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Oh, I don't care whether they spend it or not - or the timescales for that matter (sent or agreed, who cares?)

I just read a tweet that wij posted that was said to be "entirely false" when it isn't.
 
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