News War with Russia

[Scouse]

It’s just trying to draw an equivalence between the attacked and the attacker because somehow that seems like a good idea.

No you're not. You're changing the topic - which was very much about an innocent man and how we pay lip service to our full observence to the letter of the law (he's guilty really eh?) to serve something we feel more emotional about.

Because:

I specifically said stuff that lets me bash Russians as I'm a loyal tribe member

FTFY.

*cough* article 3 *cough*



Anyway @Jupitus might explode. So that's my last post on this one

 

[Wij]

No you're not. You're changing the topic - which was very much about an innocent man and how we pay lip service to our full observence to the letter of the law (he's guilty really eh?) to serve something we feel more emotional about.

Because:

FTFY.

*cough* article 3 *cough*



Anyway @Jupitus might explode. So that's my last post on this one

I said he was innocent of the charges brought against him. I never said he was ‘guilty really’. That’s just your interpretation.

I did say that since he was part of the Donbas regime which is well-documented as having committed numerous crimes there’s a good chance he will be tried for them when Ukraine takes it back. Then we’ll see if he is found guilty of those crimes.

Nothing about that is particularly unlikely and is merely reasonable comment, adjacent to, the original point. Not changing the subject but adding to it.

 

[Raven]

No you're not. You're changing the topic - which was very much about an innocent man and how we pay lip service to our full observence to the letter of the law (he's guilty really eh?) to serve something we feel more emotional about.

Because:

FTFY.

*cough* article 3 *cough*



Anyway @Jupitus might explode. So that's my last post on this one

You're talking bollocks again. The guy went to court to defend himself against a specific accusation of a crime, and was found not guilty of that crime, but the judge commented that he knew about it all. There really is no more to it than that. You can keep banging on about completely unrelated "alleged" Ukrainian crimes all you like, absolutely nothing to do with this case. He was found not guilty of the crime put in front of him, so walked.

Whether you think that was because he had legal representation (which appears to be your initial soap box) is a matter for your own head, but it is not the case, he got found not guilty, because he wasn't.

 

[Scouse]

Zaporizhzhia shelling: Explosions at occupied nuclear site in Ukraine

The head of the nuclear watchdog issues an urgent plea after new blasts near the Zaporizhzhia plant.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukranians at it again this weekend, putting all of Europe at risk.

Russia's military accused Ukrainian forces on the other side of the river of shelling the area under its control. There was no immediate word from the Ukrainians who have previously suggested Russian forces shell the area themselves despite having their troops there.

the IAEA team said there had been damage to some buildings, systems and equipment at the site, but nothing so far "critical for nuclear safety and security"

 

[Aoami]

‘The Hole’: Gruesome Accounts of Russian Occupation Emerge From Ukrainian Nuclear Plant

From director general on down, workers say they were kidnapped and held in underground cells, often to be beaten or tortured.

www.wsj.com

Grim stuff

 

[Scouse]

Yeah, it's fucking grim.

Doesn't mean it's more important than potentially irradiating all of Europe.

 

[Scouse]

Update 129 – IAEA Director General Statement on Situation in Ukraine | IAEA

www.iaea.org

We should make continued western assistance contingent on nuclear safety.

If the incredibly unlikely is true and the Russians are shelling themselves in a false flag operation then that, I'm afraid, should be a nail in the coffin of nuclear (though as humans are dumb enough to repeatedly shell a nuclear plant we certainly aren't clever enough to plan for nuclear catastrophe during peacetime - we'll simply deny war is inevitable).

There are so many ways we could really potentially fuck ourselves. If climate doesn't fuck us (tho after the abject cop27 failure it looks probable) then we'll probably do enough of the others.

 

[Ormorof]

Mmmm or Russia could GTFO and head home, problem also solved no?

 

[Scouse]

Mmmm or Russia could GTFO and head home, problem also solved no?

Hermiony could wave a magic wand and we could all get what we want eh Ron?

In the meantime, whilst we're wishing on Harry Potter solutions to manifest themselves, Ukraine could stop being giant cunts and stop shelling a fucking nuclear power plant.

 

[Raven]

Alleged by Russians. I wouldn't put any money on it.

 

[Scouse]

Tribal idiocy alive and kicking.

The Russians aren't shelling their own troops in a nuclear power station on land they've had full control over since March.

 

[Ormorof]

Tribal idiocy alive and kicking.

The Russians aren't shelling their own troops in a nuclear power station on land they've had full control over since March.

That wouldn't make sense no, does it make more sense for Ukraine to be bombing a powerplant they need intact, and which if it goes bad will lose them a big chunk of goodwill they've garnered so far? Also no...

So nothing about this situation makes any sense, shits blowing up and the sensible option is for the peeps who should not be there in first place to pull out .

To misquote you from earlier in the thread "they should just surrender and give up as nuclear fallout isnt worth fighting for", except back then the "they" were Ukrainians

 

[Raven]

Russia has been scrabbling about for a false flag op for ages, more so now they have lost the war and resorted to just indiscriminate shelling of power stations and infrastructure, all over Ukraine. It was proven they were shelling it before, no reason to suggest they still aren't.

But sure, Ukrainian should still just roll over and have their tummy rubbed.

 

[Embattle]

I don't put it past Russia to do a false flag attack after all the whole war is based on one.

I also wouldn't rule out Ukraine firing towards the plant, after all Russia has been using the facility to store/hide assorted military equipment.

 

[Scouse]

It was proven they were shelling it before

No it wasn't. They shelled power junctions NOT in the plant - because they want to ensure that if the Ukranians get it back it'll be a fuck of a long time before it's useful to them.

And no, they shouldn't roll over - I've said we should make it 100% clear that continued western assistance is contingent on them stopping being absolute fuckheads.

I've said - we should support Ukraine in the war, that we want Russia to lose is a no-brainer. But there are absolutely limits - and nuclear fallout all over Europe is absolutley one of them.

But it's the Ukraine. Zelinsky is playing a dangerous game to get more NATO involvement on the ground. He's pushing for us to take over Nuclear plants from Russia: "We all need guaranteed protection from Russian sabotage at nuclear facilities" - yeah, and exactly how do we fucking do that without boots on the ground chum? And are Russia going to just lie down and take it?

 

[Raven]

Look, you're a loon. We know.

 

[Gwadien]

But sure, Ukrainian should still just roll over and have their tummy rubbed.

I don't think anyone is advocating for that.

But I do find it funny how there was a massive response of 'YAY WAR!' when Poland got hit and 2 people died, shelling of Europe's biggest nuclear station? No response, 0.

I'd support war over the latter rather than the former.

 

[Raven]

I don't think anyone is advocating for that.

But I do find it funny how there was a massive response of 'YAY WAR!' when Poland got hit and 2 people died, shelling of Europe's biggest nuclear station? No response, 0.

I'd support war over the latter rather than the former.

"massive" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

And there has and is a big fuss being made over the shelling of the plant, did you not notice the UN inspectors visiting the site? That was when the Russians tried to claim rockets spin 180 degrees just before impact.

 

[Gwadien]

"massive" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

And there has and is a big fuss being made over the shelling of the plant, did you not notice the UN inspectors visiting the site? That was when the Russians tried to claim rockets spin 180 degrees just before impact.

That was when they first took it.

You can't false flag artillery fire your own positions because it's quite easy to work out what direction they're coming from.

 

[caLLous]

That was when they first took it.

They took it in early March and the inspection was in September.

Russian troops take control of Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant in Ukraine

IAEA director-general Rafael Mariano Grossi has been told Russia has taken control of the area around the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

www.power-technology.com

UN inspectors reach Ukraine nuclear plant after shelling causes delay

A team of U.N. experts arrived at Europe's biggest atomic power plant after crossing the frontline into Russian-held territory in southern Ukraine on Thursday, to assess the risk of what both sides say could be a devastating radiation disaster.

www.reuters.com

You can't false flag artillery fire your own positions because it's quite easy to work out what direction they're coming from.

But that's exactly what Russia tried to do.

 

[Scouse]

But that's exactly what Russia tried to do.

Nope. Russia has been blowing up electrical infrastructure near the plant - they've not been dumb enough to shell the plant itself.

Also - top tip: Read articles before your post them as 'evidence' for supporting your argument. The earlier shelling of the plant itself - not Russia.

 

[caLLous]

What? The articles were used to demonstrate the date Russia took control of the plant (March 1st) and the date the UN inspectors reached it (September 1st), where Russia tried to explain how missiles could flip around in mid air to make it look like they came from their own side.

they've not been dumb enough to shell the plant itself.

According to who? You?

You bang on about tribal idiocy but you've certainly nailed your colours to the mast.

 

[Scouse]

You bang on about tribal idiocy but you've certainly nailed your colours to the mast.

The ones where I support Ukraine?

The only thing is I'm not blind to when they're being wankers.

 

[Wij]

Weird thing was, no casualties and no critical infrastructure was damaged.

So options are:

1.) Ukraine is aiming at nothing in particular.
2.) Russia did it to stoke up tensions and knew where it’s troops weren’t placed.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ukraine was shelling Russian positions pretty near the plant. They are using it to fire at nearby cities. Lives can be saved by taking them out.

I would be surprised if Ukraine was firing at anything critical. They’ve no reason to. On the other hand Russia has been targeting Ukraine’s energy infrastructure (and health infrastructure) massively in recent weeks. It also has a history of using false flags to encourage the west to rethink providing them weapons, such as when they torched a load of prisoners and claimed Ukraine did it with a HIMARS.

I’d wait and see what the IAEA inspectors find tbh.

In the meantime it is Russia deliberately making the area a battlefield by hosting military equipment there and firing out from there.

And the potential damage if something did go wrong is still nothing compared to the humanitarian crisis Russia is trying to create by leaving Ukraine without energy and hospitals over the winter.

 

[Scouse]

Weird thing was, no casualties and no critical infrastructure was damaged.

Sprinklers at a spent fuel cooling plant were damaged. And who gives a fuck anyway - shells were landing meters away from critical infrastructure. Firing artillery can go wrong.

What "tension" is Russia stoking here? What do they have to gain? It makes no sense whatsoever. People can shout "false flag" - but Russia gets literally zero out of this.

It's Ukraine - Zelinsky is calling for Nato to take control of the plants. They're ramping up pressure on us because they want more involvement.


And yes, Russia are using the nuclear plant as a shield. Obviously. Ukraine would do the same but they don't control it. It's a fucking shitty action by the Russians, but we shouldn't give a fuck - there's no justification at all for firing back - absolutely zero.

 

[Scouse]

And the potential damage if something did go wrong is still nothing compared to the humanitarian crisis Russia is trying to create by leaving Ukraine without energy and hospitals over the winter.

This, on the other hand, is a bag of shite.

Potentially irradiate the whole of Europe? Could easily be worse than Chernobyl and Fukushima - we were lucky there.

Fuck Ukraine if that's the game they're playing at. Like I said before - support contingent on no other shit landing in that plant.

 

[Embattle]

No nuclear safety concerns at Zaporizhzhia after shelling, IAEA confirms

There are no immediate nuclear safety or security concerns at the Russian-held Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine despite shelling at the weekend that caused widespread damage, the UN atomic watchdog said after its experts toured the site.

“They were able to confirm that – despite the severity of the shelling – key equipment remained intact and there were no immediate nuclear safety or security concerns,” the International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement.

 

[Deebs]

@Scouse You do realise that if Russia didn't start the war none of this would be happening. If Russia invaded the UK would you be the first to hand over your chickens and welcome them? I would not. They are the cause/issue/instigators of everything that is happening in Europe. THEY FUCKING STARTED IT, EUROPE WAS PEACEFUL BEFORE PUTIN DECIDED TO INVADE ANOTHER COUNTRY.

 

[Wij]

This, on the other hand, is a bag of shite.

Potentially irradiate the whole of Europe? Could easily be worse than Chernobyl and Fukushima - we were lucky there.

Fuck Ukraine if that's the game they're playing at. Like I said before - support contingent on no other shit landing in that plant.

Just from the BBC today:

Ukraine nuclear plant: How risky is stand-off over Zaporizhzhia?

International leaders warn of potential disaster at the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia plant.

www.bbc.co.uk

A direct hit on the reactor wouldn’t cause a meltdown. The diesel generators which cool it are encased in there too.

On the other hand:

Millions of lives under threat in Ukraine this winter - WHO

Millions are at risk as winter sets in as many are without power, a WHO official warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Embattle]

Russians accused of burning bodies at Kherson landfill

Residents and workers say occupying forces used site to burn bodies of fallen Russian soldiers

www.theguardian.com