United States Corrupt Twattery

[BloodOmen]

Arguing with Trump supporters on X last night because I couldn't sleep. They really are fucking brain dead. The below picture is basically how it went.

Typical responses from them were:

"NATO SHOULD HAVE HELPED US BOMB IRAN!"
"NATO NEVER HELPED US BEFORE" - This one I found funny because they were enraged when I mentioned 9/11 and the fact Article 5 was triggered within NATO as a response to it.
"NATO ARE MUSLIM TRAITORS!"

Just..... total fucking cult.

 

[Gwadien]

We'll get to see how it pans out won't we. We'll get time to find out if the world falls apart over the next 20 years or whether half the population is mildly hysterical. Suffice it to say I don't share your pessimism.

Weird tho. I'm not normally the optimistic one.


All those with a desire to censor say that. All have been palpably wrong.

Ever considered that you're being hysterical?

The conclusion I've got from your past few posts is that we should be shunning traditional European politics and adopting MAGA?

Because for all the bad Trump does, pesky Europeans do 100x worse.

 

[Scouse]

Ever considered that you're being hysterical?

The guy who's saying "hey wait - the world isn't falling apart people - calm down!"??

 

[Scouse]

Because for all the bad Trump does, pesky Europeans do 100x worse.

America isn't locking up thousands of people for sitting down peacefully, silently, expressing opinions.

America isn't arresting tens of thousands of people a year for writing things.

 

[Raven]

10s of people, and for things like "calling for hotels to be burned down" with people in them.

 

[Scouse]

10s of people, and for things like "calling for hotels to be burned down" with people in them.

Already posted the data. We're arresting more than 12000 people a year for posts.

Nothing about the thousands we locked up using terrorism legislation for sitting down holding bits of cardboard up?

 

[caLLous]

We'll get to see how it pans out won't we. We'll get time to find out if the world falls apart over the next 20 years or whether half the population is mildly hysterical. Suffice it to say I don't share your pessimism.

Weird tho. I'm not normally the optimistic one.


All those with a desire to censor say that. All have been palpably wrong.

It's not optimism, it's wilful ignorance because of your weird blind spot for Trump, your hatred of the left and your both-sidesing that you employ to deflect away from how awful Trump and his admin are...

Trump Is Dismantling US Democracy at a Speed 'Unprecedented in Modern History': Watchdog | Common Dreams

V-Dem report: Trump administration rapidly dismantling US democracy, concentrating powers in presidency, undermining checks and balances.

www.commondreams.org

“Our data on the USA goes back to 1789,” he said. “What we’re seeing now is the most severe magnitude of democratic backsliding ever in the country.”

He also said that other authoritarian leaders have taken much more time in ripping down their states’ democratic institutions than Trump has.

“For Orbán in Hungary, it took about four years,” Lindberg said, “for Vučić in Serbia, it took eight years, and for Erdoğan in Turkey and Modi in India, it took about 10 years to accomplish the suppression of democratic institutions that Trump has achieved in only one year.”

 

[Deebs]

tRump is a WMD which is armed and getting ready to go off.

 

[DaGaffer]

Already posted the data. We're arresting more than 12000 people a year for posts.

Nothing about the thousands we locked up using terrorism legislation for sitting down holding bits of cardboard up?

Arrests ≠ convictions.

Total number of convictions under the Malicious Communications Act is around 15-20% of arrests and total custodial sentences is about 5-10% of that. There are about 100 custodial sentences a year.

As with so much noise generated by the US/Russian alt-right, there's ongoing obfuscation of data; same with knife crime; in the US every knife crime is a stabbing, in the UK most knife crime is actually possession of a knife, and the US knife crime rate is still much higher than the UK. Same with crimes committed by Muslims, crimes committed by migrants, and on and on.

If you incite people to murder, it's not free speech, it's incitement to murder. Actions have consequences.

NB. There are approx. 5.1 billion social media posts made by UK citizens per year; 12,000 is 0.000235%

 

[Scouse]

Arrests ≠ convictions.

Yeah. You know what I want to say about that.

I'd respond to the rest of your post but I'd already posted everything that needs to be said on it:

The only way it can work is as a principle. A horribly messy unnassailable principle.

The word "only" in that sentence is the important one.




Edit: BTW - sometimes 'incitement to murder' (lol) is the right thing to do.

Without true freedom of speech, there is no path to a just society.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yeah. You know what I want to say about that.

I'd respond to the rest of your post but I'd already posted everything that needs to be said on it:

Funny how you go quiet when reality is brought up

The word "only" in that sentence is the important one.

Except there is no free speech, anywhere, including the US, so your precious principle is simply a matter of negotiation on the terms. The US government (and people acting within the US government) do not have 1st Amendment protections (which is why Pete Hegseth could find himself in deep shit when when I new government is elected, but I think he's too much of a fuckwit to realise it yet) so a line is already established, it's just a matter of where it sits.

Edit: BTW - sometimes 'incitement to murder' (lol) is the right thing to do.

Without true freedom of speech, there is no path to a just society.

And most of the time it isn't. Your freedom to harm doesn't supercede my freedom from harm.

 

[Scouse]

We're never going to meet on this. You don't care about the reality of 12,000 arrests (which is a huge deal). You don't care about the reality of thousands in prison for holding up signs. You don't care about free speech and thought. I'm obviously of the opinion that history has shown you're on the wrong side of the argument (like the vast majority of humans), you aren't.

That's fine.

Me saying something might make some assat think and decide something for themselves. But they're culpable for their own actions. Your fear of others doesn't supercede my right to hear other people's opinions, no matter how abhorrent, nor give my own.

Meanwhile, our Government is locking up loads of grannies for being peacefully anti-genocide. For thinking differently.

 

[Raven]

Example

OK to say

"I would love to see this guy get his throat cut"

Not OK to say

"I want someone to slice this guys throat"

Not incitement, vs incitement.

 

[Gwadien]

UK: High Court rules ban on Palestine Action under terrorism legislation unlawful

Judgment draws ‘line in the sand’ against misuse of terrorism powers.

www.amnesty.org.uk

But lets stop derailing the thread