United States Corrupt Twattery

[DaGaffer]

And if you post distasteful comments on social media and it's easy to link you back to your employers and they take a dim view of it, they are well within their rights to take further action. If you're also not performing well in your job as per that NYT reporter who got canned, then it may be just the excuse your employer needs to show you the door.

Part of me does find it all incredibly amusing however. Historically "the left" have found offense archaeology and digging up 10 year old tweets to get people fired hilarious - now the roles have switched it seems it's less amusing.

Funny that.

Most employers (and universities) have been told about people and then followed the MAGA instructions because they're too cowed to do anything else. In very few cases are employers sitting there watching the socials of their staff for infringements. Stop apologising and making excuses for these cunts. It's risible.

Oh and by the way, in a society with (allegedly) Free speech, employers shouldn't be allowed to "take a dim view" of anything people are doing that isn't when acting in a professional capacity for their employer. This drift into employers having control over your private life is in no way a good thing; it's basically a back door to discrimination.

 

[Gwadien]

Part of me does find it all incredibly amusing however. Historically "the left" have found offense archaeology and digging up 10 year old tweets to get people fired hilarious - now the roles have switched it seems it's less amusing.

Isn't this precisely what you're doing now?

 

[Bodhi]

Most employers (and universities) have been told about people and then followed the MAGA instructions because they're too cowed to do anything else. In very few cases are employers sitting there watching the socials of their staff for infringements. Stop apologising and making excuses for these cunts. It's risible.

Oh and by the way, in a society with (allegedly) Free speech, employers shouldn't be allowed to "take a dim view" of anything people are doing that isn't when acting in a professional capacity for their employer. This drift into employers having control over your private life is in no way a good thing; it's basically a back door to discrimination.

The thing is I think the bigger cunts are the ones celebrating someone getting shot in the neck, so my sympathy for bad things happening to people doing that for teh clicks is limited.

 

[Scouse]

Its still government interference if they punish companies that don't follow suit

You're being deliberately obtuse here. Freedom of speech is a criminal law issue. End of.

 

[Scouse]

And to be clear here. celebrating someone's death isn't terrorism or incitement to violence. It's distasteful but that's all.

This is true. 100%*.

*maybe not 100%. I understand that celebrating the death of politicians was at one point under consideration as a criminal offence in Blighty. We did all go out to celebrate the death of Thatcher, and had a game of darts with her stick-on face that was published in some rag for exactly that purpose. I understand that that's now only illegal if we were throwing darts at pictures of Thatcher because of a protected characteristic - and I can't see me throwing darts at Thatcher because she was white.

Maybe black people could have been arrested for it? But that'd just be another example of a UK law that keeps the black man down, eh?

 

[Scouse]

Oh and by the way, in a society with (allegedly) Free speech, employers shouldn't be allowed to "take a dim view" of anything people are doing that isn't when acting in a professional capacity for their employer. This drift into employers having control over your private life is in no way a good thing; it's basically a back door to discrimination.

I've long said exactly this. But it got short shrift around here.

Either way - it's what we've got. If I say anything in public that isn't in line with what my employer thinks, I'm outta there...

 

[Scouse]

Isn't this precisely what you're doing now?

It's precicely what's been going on under the culture wars. Cancel culture is based on it.

It's a really powerful weapon. So the republicans have woken up to it (as will Reform when (if) they get in) - and they're using it.

 

[Scouse]

The thing is I think the bigger cunts are the ones celebrating someone getting shot in the neck, so my sympathy for bad things happening to people doing that for teh clicks is limited.

For me, you can't really have it both ways.

Speech should be free. There should be a law that stops employers from being able to fire employees for opinions they don't like.

 

[Raven]

The thing is I think the bigger cunts are the ones celebrating someone getting shot in the neck, so my sympathy for bad things happening to people doing that for teh clicks is limited.

I agree that people celebrating his death are cunts, but in a free society, you are allowed to be a cunt. This goes way beyond that, people are losing their jobs for just criticising him. He was an enormous cunt.

 

[Gwadien]

It's precicely what's been going on under the culture wars. Cancel culture is based on it.

It's a really powerful weapon. So the republicans have woken up to it (as will Reform when (if) they get in) - and they're using it.

Cancel culture was private businesses reacting to anyone who was bored enough to trawl through historic social medias in the light of Saville, Harris, Weinstein etc so they were keen to overreact and make sure they're 'ahead of the curve' because you know, it's more damaging to react slowly and considerately and be accused of not doing anything than it is to fire people.

MAGA is very clear that they want the State to be MAGA supporters, Trump supported it pre election and now he's going ahead with it. I don't see how that's similar to cancel culture.

I know your response is going to be 'they're only losing jobs' (probably with some italics) but I don't think he's done weaponising Charlie Kirk.

 

[Ormorof]

You're being deliberately obtuse here. Freedom of speech is a criminal law issue. End of.

What happened to the freedom of speech crusader Scouse decrying people being banned on twitter.

Those were the days

 

[Scouse]

I agree that people celebrating his death are cunts, but in a free society, you are allowed to be a cunt. This goes way beyond that, people are losing their jobs for just criticising him. He was an enormous cunt.

I think they see it as payback for the social media trawling for posts criticising <whoever> here or supporting <whoever> there when they were teenagers, and then getting hounded for it.

Both sides are as bad as each other tbh. There's absolutely a hypocricy about all of this - and Trump's weaponising it from the very top of government - but it's going to become de rigeur from now on.

 

[Scouse]

Cancel culture was private businesses reacting

...to legions of "left-" leaning asshats that wanted to get anyone who expressed an opinion that wasn't politically correct (to their definition of political correctness) cancelled.

Business will always react like that. But the root of it was fundamentally the idea of political correctness that took hold many decades ago. Ultimately an idea from communist countries: /adopts Russian accent - "Comrade, you may be correct, but you cannot say that as it's not politically correct".

For us - our governments (notably, but not exclusively, Labour) have enacted laws based on that idea - and we see criminal consequences because of it. But in the US, you're only free to lobby companies - so that's what happened.

It's pervasive and oppressive. Now the shoe is on the other foot I'm still lamenting it - because it's just a different section of people getting kicked. But that pandora's box wasn't opened by the "right".

I can whine till I'm blue in the face why principles are more important than anything else, but I'm aware that the majority of the human race simply don't get it.

 

[caLLous]

I think they see it as payback for the social media trawling for posts criticising <whoever> here or supporting <whoever> there when they were teenagers, and then getting hounded for it.

Both sides are as bad as each other tbh. There's absolutely a hypocricy about all of this - and Trump's weaponising it from the very top of government - but it's going to become de rigeur from now on.

You have to know that's not true. MAGA pissed themselves laughing when Pelosi's 82 year old husband was attacked with a hammer and there was barely a peep out of them when actual politicians were shot/killed in Minnesota in June, along with all the other examples.

If Kirk's killer had gone on a rampage on that campus and killed a dozen students instead of one MAGA influencer, it would've been reluctant, mumbled "thoughts and prayers" and then business as usual the next day, the same as their response to every other school shooting.

 

[Scouse]

OK @caLLous - I've repeatedly said Trump is measurably worse.

But they're pretty fucking close to as bad as each other. OK?

 

[Ormorof]

No they are not at all.

Anyway your champions of free speech threatened to shut down any broadcaster that does not do say what they are told to say https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1968392506711613526

 

[Gwadien]

Jimmy Kimmel taken off air over Charlie Kirk comments

The late-night host said on Monday that Trump's allies were "doing everything they can to score political points from" Kirk's death.

www.bbc.co.uk

Even the bbc are at it - he sent 'love' to kirks family after the shooting and then criticised maga and Trump for the way they've used it.

But yeah, bad as each other, lol.

 

[Scouse]

It's exactly what I said:

It's precicely what's been going on under the culture wars. Cancel culture is based on it.

It's a really powerful weapon. So the republicans have woken up to it (as will Reform when (if) they get in) - and they're using it.

The republicans have weaponised it. It's just a corporatised cancel-culture. But it's still cancel culture. Reaping-sowing.

However - this just to restate my position:

Now the shoe is on the other foot I'm still lamenting it...

And still - for those of you who are whining about what's going on in the United States - there are no criminal repercussions from this.

Nobody is getting arrested for sitting down holding up pieces of cardboard, like thousands are in the UK. It's absolutely shitty that people are losing jobs (I don't give a shit about the millionaires but average joe losing his job sucks balls) - but people aren't going to prison for it.

America still has better free speech protections than anywhere else in the world.

 

[caLLous]

Blah blah blah, no criminal repercussions, blah blah blah

AG Pam Bondi eyes case against Office Depot employee who wouldn’t print Charlie Kirk flyer

The attorney general’s “hate speech” comments were a mess. Her line on an Office Depot employee with personal objections to Kirk made the mess worse.

www.msnbc.com

 

[Scouse]

Blah blah blah, no criminal repercussions, blah blah blah

AG Pam Bondi eyes case against Office Depot employee who wouldn’t print Charlie Kirk flyer

The attorney general’s “hate speech” comments were a mess. Her line on an Office Depot employee with personal objections to Kirk made the mess worse.

www.msnbc.com

Did you read your own fucking article?

"As a legal matter, Bondi's comments were absurd and drew a swift backlash even from ostensible allies on the right.

She even tried to backtrack herself. But what's really interesting about that article is that Pam has gone full-Labour:

Drawning a distinction between "free speech" and "hate speech". THAT is the sort of shit we've got in the UK. "Hate speech" is what lands people in Britain in jail because we don't have free speech.

The American AG can do fuck all about it - because America has constitutionally protected freedom of speech - and that includes so-called "hate speech". Hate speech is what 'the left' - and it absolutely is the left - have foisted upon Britain. It's why closing in on 20,000 people a year are soaking up police time for posting shit on the internet. It's why Britains are going to jail for saying not nice things.

America is still demonstrably BETTER than us. Thanks for making my point for me.


Maybe next time you post an article in an effort to "win" an argument, read it and understand it first?

 

[caLLous]

Yes and the point is that she, as the AG, said it in the first place. They'll drop bits here and there, creeping, gaining ground and then all of a sudden it'll be too late. As for "absurdity", a year ago it would've been seen as absurd that Colbert and Kimmel would've been taken off air, a year ago it would've been seen as absurd that Trump's classified documents case would be dismissed and yet here we are... so why wouldn't they casually introduce stronger language about, for example, potential prosecutions? It doesn't matter if the cases would be laughed out of a courtroom, as long as the threat's there and people believe it.

Or how about this:

Miller Says He and Trump Will Use Law Enforcement to 'Dismantle' the Left After Kirk Shooting | Common Dreams

Stephen Miller, Trump's deputy chief of staff, said that he and the president will use law enforcement to "dismantle" the left, which he called a "domestic terrorism movement" after the Charlie Kirk shooting.

www.commondreams.org

Using the law - on whatever charges they can muster - to shut down those whose "free speech" they disagree with. That's probably fine too, right?

 

[Scouse]

Yes and the point is that she, as the AG, said it in the first place. They'll drop bits here and there, creeping, gaining ground and then all of a sudden it'll be too late.

Are you special?

They can't use the law to crack down on free speech in any criminal fashon. It won't GET to a court room. It won't be "too late" because America has constitutionally protected freedom of speech. This is the situation the founding fathers predicted - encroaching authoritarian government overreach. But the people are protected by the Consitution. The Constitution would have to be amended for people to go to jail for saying things.

I.E. To end up as bad as it is in Britain America would have to amend their constitution.

MAGA can abuse their power to get shit cancelled. This is simply an escalation of cancel-culture - MAGA-style. And absolutely it's fucking disgusting. But there are zero criminal reprocussions. Unlike in Britain where thousands are being arrested for sitting down holding signs, tens of thousands are being arrested for social media posts.


Everyone's pointing at America because they hate Trump. But nobody is pointing at the country with BIGGER problems - the UK (or any other tinpot authoritarian wankstain across the world). America has a long way to go before it descends to our level. They can talk whatever MAGA shit they like, but nobody in America is going to land in jail for stuff they say. Stuff they do? Maybe, but not for stuff they say.

 

[caLLous]

Oh wise up ffs.

Do you seriously think Trump/MAGA is going to hold back out of a desire to adhere to the Constitution? He can't do this and he can't do that, he's already done several things he "can't" do (emoluments, totally bypassing Congress with tariffs etc). Maybe the Constitution will stop him but you'd better believe he's going to test it and when he's got a Supreme Court that leans heavily his way (while it can't outright overrule the Constitution, it can offer "interpretations" which lean this way or that), we'll see what holds and what doesn't.

 

[Scouse]

From your website @caLLous:

UK Protest Group Condemns 'Orwellian' Arrest Over Projected Trump-Epstein Images | Common Dreams

UK protest group Led By Donkeys faces arrests for showing picture that displayed Trump's ties to Epstein at Windsor Castle. Why are peaceful protesters being silenced?

www.commondreams.org

"Orwellian" arrests in the UK:

The leaders of the UK-based protest group Led By Donkeys said Wednesday that four of its members remained under arrest for displaying images of US President Donald Trump and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein on the side of Windsor Castle

And Led By Donkeys say:

We’re constantly told, you know, we need to see peaceful protests ... Well, here’s a peaceful protest

Quit whining about America. Lets look at what's going on in the UK - it's worse.

 

[Scouse]

To be fair though - LedByDonkeys did complain about Starmer for upholding UK laws that has led to "dozens of peaceful protesters being imprisoned for crimes such as throwing soup at a painting without causing any damage (two years) or joining a Zoom call to discuss causing a traffic jam (five years)".

I like 'em

 

[Ormorof]

From your website @caLLous:

UK Protest Group Condemns 'Orwellian' Arrest Over Projected Trump-Epstein Images | Common Dreams

UK protest group Led By Donkeys faces arrests for showing picture that displayed Trump's ties to Epstein at Windsor Castle. Why are peaceful protesters being silenced?

www.commondreams.org

"Orwellian" arrests in the UK:



And Led By Donkeys say:



Quit whining about America. Lets look at what's going on in the UK - it's worse.

This is the US whining thread ill whine here thank you very much

Anyway the current government has shown a happy willingness to ignore the constitution so far what makes you think they will respect it now?

 

[Scouse]

This is the US whining thread ill whine here thank you very much

And whining is what's going on. I'm just providing an evidence-based counterpoint to all the hand-wringing over a country that has better legal protection for it's population than ours.

It must be nice to bash the yanks whilst not looking in our own backyard. Amazing the amount of outrage they provoke, whilst we ignore, or worse - apologise for - our own government's actions.

Anyway the current government has shown a happy willingness to ignore the constitution

The constitution provides protection from criminal outcomes regarding free speech. I'd like to see evidence of criminal outcomes.

 

[Bodhi]

For me, you can't really have it both ways.

Speech should be free. There should be a law that stops employers from being able to fire employees for opinions they don't like.

I completely agree - up to a point. If you were to post on social media "Our competitors are a bunch of wankers and the CEO molests donkeys" I could see why your employer would take a dim view of that.

In an ideal world political opinions would be treated separately, but that isn't where we are unfortunately. If it brings the company into disrepute - or even worse if your working for a school or or care providing institution, celebrating people's deaths isn't a great look.

 

[DaGaffer]

counterpoint to all the hand-wringing over a country that has better legal protection for it's population than ours.

You mean other than the fact that it demonstrably doesn't? You've picked a very narrow legal protection and ignored all the ways that same narrow legal protection has now been subverted while hiding behind "hey, we have free speech". So what if you can't be locked up, if you can made so unemployable that you'll probably get locked up for something else when you can't feed yourself anyway?

You're just hiding behind the Constitution to avoid engaging with actual reality. The US de facto no more has free speech than the UK; it's just sliced the penalties differently by weaponising the mob.

 

[Scouse]

So, to treat the obvious things:

So what if you can't be locked up

So what if you can't be locked up?!

Prison is a really serious thing. It's total deprivation of your liberty at the hands of the state. Don't trivialise it. It's THE thing.

if you can made so unemployable <adds a fantasy of what is possible>

People were getting made unemployed before Trump came in. The "left" was trawling through social media posts made when people were teenagers and then hounding companies to get people the sack.

I'm on record, multiple times, and on this very page, saying that sort of action is not only deplorable - but should be illegal. MAGA are weaponsing it - and that is also deplorable.

But it was happening before. It's happening afterwards. The *important* thing is that people can't be locked up for it.

So:

You're just hiding behind the Consitution to avoid engaging with actual reality. The US de facto no more has free speech than the UK; it's just sliced the penalties differently by weaponising the mob.

I'd throw that back at you. PRISON is worse than losing your job. It's losing your liberty. You're the one refusing to engage with reality because it undercuts what you enjoy doing: Hating on Trump.

Meanwhile, Blighty is depriving thousands of people of their liberty. It's splitting families up, it's causing financial destitution (especially if who ends up in prison is the main breadwinner for that family). People are going to clinky for five years for attending a zoom call.

Whichever way you cut it - that's fucking way worse than losing your job. Because going to prison means you not only lose your job, you lose your fucking life.