United States Corrupt Twattery

Litmus

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I'm becoming seriously concerned where all this is leading tbh. What happened in the US was terrible and should never happen, and IMO the whole US justice system is flawed from top to bottom includeing being institutionally racist. But since, the whole movement especially here in the UK seems have been hi-jacked by the ultra left Anarchist/Communist types.

And so far they seem to be getting away with it, the Govenment looks absolutely petrified to do anything about it other than be complicit and appease. In just 3 days, countless statues and TV shows have been taken down and I doubt anything that is older than 5 years old will be around much longer at the current rate. To me it looks that unless someone stands up soon and says "no" then slowly but surley free speach and the freedom to think is being withered away.

I honestly beleive if it continues like this, it could lead to an all out race war which I'm convinced is exactly what they're looking for, divide and rule.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
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Damn, I guess I won't get to see Coming To America every few months on Comedy Central any more. Shame, I really like that movie.
comingtoamerica.jpg
 

Ormorof

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As of 21.39 Wednesday night, theyve pulled Little Britain, fly with me, League of gentlemen, gone with the wind.
By thursday morning Im expecting it will include all black comedians saying ni88er, Mrs Doubtfire, Magic Roundabout and Friends.

Pulled from where?
 

Deebs

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I'm becoming seriously concerned where all this is leading tbh. What happened in the US was terrible and should never happen, and IMO the whole US justice system is flawed from top to bottom includeing being institutionally racist. But since, the whole movement especially here in the UK seems have been hi-jacked by the ultra left Anarchist/Communist types.

And so far they seem to be getting away with it, the Govenment looks absolutely petrified to do anything about it other than be complicit and appease. In just 3 days, countless statues and TV shows have been taken down and I doubt anything that is older than 5 years old will be around much longer at the current rate. To me it looks that unless someone stands up soon and says "no" then slowly but surley free speach and the freedom to think is being withered away.

I honestly beleive if it continues like this, it could lead to an all out race war which I'm convinced is exactly what they're looking for, divide and rule.
Basically erasing history. Next library works are to be removed and burnt along with the Internet Archive.
 

Job

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While Boris hides behind his minority ministers...Trump is taking blm full on
.
Seriously we need him here.


View: https://streamable.com/6klrjg

How gorgeously theatrical and hitleresque is that....this is where we are heading.
 

Job

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DaGaffer

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So basically the scene where the French exchange student says he doesn't like arabs (and thereby makes himself look racist and is the whole point of the scene) is what's caused all this. Fuck's sake; context.

I was reading up on the list of statues that are under review and its the same thing; completely context free; the most hilarious one is Robert Peel "because he created modern policing". Here's the thing, I can get behind getting rid of Cecil Rhodes statues, racism was his brand and he was, frankly, a very bad man. Ditto Robert Clive. But Francis Drake's slave running is offset by his whole "saving the country from Spain" thing. Context. This is just like the Confederate statues thing; context is everything.
 

Job

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It obviously didnt take them long to realise their power and now a new list has appeared.
Basically the entire country.

Topple the Racists

Its part of the stoptrump website
 

Job

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I cant actually disagree with 90% of them, its who is telling us to knock them down that concerns me.

And once we start pointing out historical links we wont stop until the world is in ruins.

Obviously it will all stop when we pull Mandelas statue down.

The fathers of America were slave owners.
Native American tribes enslaved each other, Africa sold the slaves to us....
Its endless.
 

Scouse

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who is telling us to knock them down that concerns me.
Me? A cross section of society who've been saying it for years? An intelligent lot who actually know the history of the people depicted?

Who, exactly, are you 'concerned' about @Job - you've said this twice now and (as usual) provided nothing.
 

DaGaffer

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Me? A cross section of society who've been saying it for years? An intelligent lot who actually know the history of the people depicted?

Who, exactly, are you 'concerned' about @Job - you've said this twice now and (as usual) provided nothing.

No, sorry, there's a lot of absolute bollocks on there. The site's headline is take down statues and monuments in the UK that celebrate slavery and racism, and in a handful of cases you can say, "definitely, that's statue is celebrating a racist who's famous because of their racism", but in the vast majority of cases those statues do not celebrate that. Is a statue to Nelson celebrating his (unsavory) political opinions or the Battle of Trafalgar? Is a statue of Francis Drake celebrating the slaver? The pirate? Or saving England from Spanish invasion? If most people aren't even aware of the negative sides of these people, how is that possibly to be construed as celebrating slavery or racism?

And before you get into it; don't start with all that "I wouldn't celebrate wars" pish; that has nothing to do with it and everyone disagrees with you, especially in terms of existential threats.
 

Job

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It think that would be the ultra left, antifa, marxists, anarchists, people buying into the movement for short term internet points.

They wont stop at that...its now a political movement based on mob rule...dangerous?
Happened before...somewhere..cant remember....called themselves socialists I think.
Did a bit of public shaming...marking people, some organised destruction of property...burnt some books.
 

Job

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Its entire culture of people and the mob has decided that they cant bring their own symbols to their own sport.

No discussion..no empathy...no involvement, the organisers have folded under the moral crusade.

It just causes more Trump and will bring people on the fence on to the side of defending freedom.
 

caLLous

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Yeah nobody has ever discussed the history of the Confederate Flag or its modern use by white supremacists and racists. That one came completely out of the blue.
 

DaGaffer

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Its entire culture of people and the mob has decided that they cant bring their own symbols to their own sport.

No discussion..no empathy...no involvement, the organisers have folded under the moral crusade.

It just causes more Trump and will bring people on the fence on to the side of defending freedom.

What makes you think there's been no discussion about this? There's been a fuckton of discussion about it for years, and frankly NASCAR have been seeing declining attendances over the last several years after being the biggest sport in America a decade ago, precisely because its redneck racist central. Younger people, younger southern people, won't go to NASCAR races because of the atmosphere, and the older fans are ageing out and fucking off to Florida like all old Americans do.

The flag that's been being banned is NOT the Confederate flag; its the Confederate Battle Flag and its a swastika for good ol' boys, and intentionally so. #Context.
 

Job

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There will be wall to wall flags at the next Nascar meet and if they try to take one single flag off anyone at the gate there will be riot.

The enemy is merely waking up their foe.
 

Scouse

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No, sorry, there's a lot of absolute bollocks on there. The site's headline is take down statues and monuments in the UK that celebrate slavery and racism, and in a handful of cases you can say, "definitely, that's statue is celebrating a racist who's famous because of their racism", but in the vast majority of cases those statues do not celebrate that.
Agree. It's really "do we want noted racists to be celebrated".

I'm all for removal, museumization, regular replacement of statues with people who've done things recently worthy of recognition. It'd be a more interesting changing visual landscape - rather than, for example, a constant reminder of the battle of Trafalgar.

Would much rather our focus was on people who are advancing us right now than the past. Rolling replacement of Nelson with this year's Nobel-winning scientist, anyone? :)
 

Scouse

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There will be wall to wall flags at the next Nascar meet and if they try to take one single flag off anyone at the gate there will be riot.

The enemy is merely waking up their foe.
Why not address what people are saying about your post, instead of just saying this shit and ignoring their points?
 

~Yuckfou~

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Agree. It's really "do we want noted racists to be celebrated".

I'm all for removal, museumization, regular replacement of statues with people who've done things recently worthy of recognition. It'd be a more interesting changing visual landscape - rather than, for example, a constant reminder of the battle of Trafalgar.

Would much rather our focus was on people who are advancing us right now than the past. Rolling replacement of Nelson with this year's Nobel-winning scientist, anyone? :)

As well as, not instead of.
I'm not on board with history being deleted.
 

Embattle

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The majority of those involved in tearing down the Edward Colston statue are in a generation that traditionally would struggle to provide the years that either World War 1 or 2 took place thus I've little doubt quite a few of them knew fuck all about Edward Colston or paid little attention to him until they read something about tearing it down, in the end it was little more than a mob justice. I'm not a fan of such statues where there is a heavy weighted history of slavery but neither do I believe looking at one aspect in isolation and then having a mob tear it down is acceptable, it must be done in a proper democratic way. Using the standards set by the mob you easily tear down quite a lot in many different countries from Lloyd's of London to the Pyramids.

I've said before I've a deep dislike of using modern standards/ethics and either transplanting them to the time of the person or vice versa, the ironic thing about it is for all the noise they made and effort they put in it would've been better to redirect that to modern standards/ethics and issues rather than direct them at someone who has been dead for nearly 300 years now.

The argument about the confederate flag, from a person with some knowledge ;)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dllhGgLXZg&feature=emb_logo
 

Job

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Scouse..history is what cements us as a nation...I know you dont like that, you are the very product of intellectual brainwashing with a blinkered agenda.

If you constantly plough over our actions in an endless new beginning everything loses its value.

The very thing that tiktok is, 15s..swipe...swipe.
Its an opinion, I dont agree with it because its nihilist and a society where we just jump to the latest craze or the latest trending celebrity of any profession...find they are flawed, bury them and move on is a society doomed to implode in on itself.

Nelson represents a monumental change of direction in world history...no one thinks hes a saint and all the 'saints' the left hold up high are just as flawed.
Mob rule should never ever be allowed to conquer, because next time it will be you they are coming after.

Its the fucking Spanish Inquisition 2020 style.
 

Scouse

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As well as, not instead of.
I'm not on board with history being deleted.
History can't be "deleted" (I also said museum-ize). But there's only so much space for prominent statues and personally I'd rather celebrate progress than military victories in the increasingly distant past.

Our current model is static, unchanging, boring.

And before you say "I don't find it boring - I'm really interested in military history" - how many times do you go see Nelson? Or do you just visit once or twice and continue your history interest with books/TV/films etc?

For me it's not about hiding or deleting history - statues are rightly about celebrating things - but because we keep them static we're celebrating one achievement over many worthy others.

People ignore Nelson's column every time they walk past it. No thought is provoked in most people. However, if it was changed annually then conversations would happen on who they are, what they'd done, human progress.

Nelson just gathers pigeon shit and japanese tourists. We get taught about him in school anyway and they'll snap pics of a shiny turd if it was on top of a pole - so there'd be very little loss and everything to gain from changing, IMO.
 

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