Uni Decisions [Techie advise would be nice]

[Overdriven]

So, I've got one year of the course I'm doing (College, I went the long way by choise) and when I leave I'll be coming out with 3 A levels in I.T. (System Support and I.T) - I didn't do well in school, coming out badly; going to the college and getting pretty good grades. (Student of the Year, last year - So, pretty good)

Now, saying I did badly in school means I'm not the greatests at Mathmatics. Only way I got into my last course was by having a intermediate on another I.T. course. This is where my issue comes in..

Recertly looking at university courses that I can do and I'm quite interested in, one being Computer Science (Networking Communications) and one being Cyber Security and Computer Forensics.

Both courses are 4-5 years long (Both include a year in full time work) and both require a Math qualification; the Networking Communication one only requires A-C (Level 2 Key Skills may also be considered) and the Security one requires A-Level Math(s) and an A-C in GCSE levels. (I've got the grades for English, just not Math) (I'm 19, btw)

Now, am I totally screwed if I want to go for the Cyber Secutiy course or would it be best if I just stick to Networking Communications?

Future wise, I'm interested in both different aspects. Both can lead to being Network Administrators/System Analysists but both are two totally different courses.

http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kuweb/un...008/cybersecuritycomputerforensics/index.html
http://www.kingston.ac.uk/networkcommunications/


Any responce/help/advise would be greatly appriicated... If there's no use, I'll be looking for full time work in system/user support then working my way up. But the courses look good too =<

Cheers,


Jason.

 

[Thadius]

Hmm, if you are shit hot at computers and not that good at maths, they might consider you.


Best bet is to just ask them and say look, ive not got good maths grades but i am currently studying it on a night course etc, they might take you on board too.

 

[Chronictank]

http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kuweb/un...cybersecuritycomputerforensics/index.html#mod

this one seems to be geared towards computer security so is more suitable if you want to go into network security rather than computer administration.
The other seems more traditional version covering most area's, so would be more suited to the systems admin role.
to be honest it doesnt really matter much but i would go with what you like doing as you will enjoy your course more.
If you want to get into networking ask the uni if they do modules where you can get your CISCO qualification as that is really what you want to get if you want a job in networking.

As for your maths qualification if you dont have GCSE maths i suggest you do a key skills thing or add an extra year to the degree by doing a foundation which covers the basics.
Ultimately i would say speak to your careers advisor (both the school/college one and the one for your borough), on what the best path would be, they usually know people in uni's and can pull a few strings as well as mailing the course leader of the courses, they usually are more forgiving if you have showed an interest and come across as really wanting to go there (ego inflating is always good )

Out of curiosity is there any reason why you chose kingston in particular im sure there are other uni's with no maths entry qualification

How old are you out of curisity? as you may be able to get into a traineeship

 

[Overdriven]

@Thad: I'm not 'shit hot' but I know my way around what we've been taught and it's still pretty simple (minus subnetting, which still makes me cry irl) but, I actually hope for that reason I'd have a chance. Would be so much easier if it was like that though. If I even try to go for it, I'm going to have to work my ass off on the 2nd year in college (Been lazy this year) and boost my grades back up.

@Chron: Well, I've got the key skills bit sorted I think (I _think_ I've got level 2 in Math, as required for it) but I don't think I'd live doing a full year in Math. (Though, maybe it'd be easier as they'd be less distractions since none of my friends want to go to uni)

I like the idea of being in security (loads of people I know, know that I am aswell) but then I'd like to be a net admin too.

Yeah, I'll go to the advisors and see what they say actually; may be a good bet since my college has them. I chose kingston since it's one of the few colleges near me which do the courses I like (Without needing to move to Scotland) and it's pretty close to me. (I'd try to live on campus, etc)

19 btw.

 

[Furr]

http://www.goldsmiths.ac.uk/departments/computing/

Also good, part of the Uni of London so degree will have some added weight behind it, good remedial course in maths, to be honest in CS (which is what I'm doing) is not easy but also not terrible hard, I too was not terribly good at Maths, but most of the stuff you will be taught is Base 10/2/16 maths, probability, functions, Venn Diagrams, etc. The main thing you "WILL" have to learn and pass is Java. There will also be a Business Course and IT+Inet, this is mainly to do with CSS/HTML/XML and also the harder bit of the internal working of PC's from Flip-Flop Switches, IEE(E?)754, Networking, internal working OS PC and how the Computers essentially work from the begining to now.

Also depends how old you are, you can go through UCAS in which case competition is stiff, wait till your a mature student in which case its slightly easier, or cheat ie, apply part-time and convert to full time.

Also from I believe the Goldsmiths are developing a new course in what is essentially computer game design. Masters in Computer Gaming, but its a masters so you'll have to get a BSc first.

You talk about doing security focused design, but that will lock you in somewhat doing a general CS degree will give you a broader reach in starting a career.

However I've been told (by various tutors) that in IT, its much better to get a good degree in a IT degree that a bad one in one you don't like. Companies don't care as long as you have a 2.1+, also there's a world wide shortage in Computer Science Grads, even India + China with their Grads aren't able to pump enough out, So Wages are increasing and with the current trend in a couple years will be in even more demand. A computer science degree is very very different to Software eng or hardware eng, its more to do with the theory of computers and interactions. One analogy is that Soft/hard eng is to CS, what first aid is to medicine.

So Get Studying!

 

[Overdriven]

Looks like I've got some deciding and studying to do then. If I went with the Network Com (CS) I'd have the knowledge from the courses I'm doing currently (Covered floating point, semester 1 of CCNA, network OSs and hardware) which I suppose would be a good starter point. But then I'd need to RElearn CSS/HTML and totally learn Java and XML (Sounds like fun, as I have a very basic understanding of C#)

If I go for the Cyber Security and Computer Forensics (CSCF from now on!) I'd have to learn alot more I think, but that's something I'd look forward to doing honestly.

Meh, then I need to decide what I'd do after... Having the pure CS degree would give (as you said) a wider range of jobs, but then; having the CSCF degree would (if i could get them) a more challenging job with a slightly better salary. Urgh, complicated.

Yeah, I'm going to go through the UCAS route and see what happens from there, if I can't; I'd wait 2 years (full time work, if I could) then try and go to uni again and do the courses.

My todo list:

- Career Advisor
- More research on the two courses, and jobs available after.
- Relearning CSS and HTML.
- Learn Java(*Cries*) and XML.
- Work my ass off..


If I want to go, heh... Still not decided on what to do, or even which course to pick (if I even get accepted to the Uni)


Cheers you three for the responces by the way.

 

[Sharma]

You know what really scares me?

The fact youre doing computing and so am I. Bottom line is...my names Jason too!

 

[Overdriven]

Aye, I've known your name was Jason for a while xD Never said anything either. (Seen it in a few threads) - Didn't know you were doing computing though. What.. field... in computing you doing then?

 

[Chilly]

Basicly, if you want to be a programmer you need maths. anyone who tells you otherwise is either a novice or lying. The algorithms used to solve various problems require an understanding of some advanced things in statistics especially, also a good general understanding of the entire A level syllabus and beyond.

I did A level maths and 2 years of physics at uni before switching to comp sci and still had to stop and think for some of the problems. Most of my fellow students had significantly less maths ability as well, so dont feel too dishearted.

You will find that if you just jump into it, you will pick it up as you go along.

in many cases, Universities are not asking for maths A levels because the course requires knowledge of binomial distributions, but because they want to know you are not a retard who took three bullshit A levels in media studies and drama and dance. If you can present a maths A level, they at least know you are slightly intelligent, if not hard working.

 

[Kryten]

Just for my tuppence.

Always a lot of options around after A-Levels, and further education is only one.
What do you intend to come out with afterwards?

1. A shitload of debts and possibly pushing supermarket trolleys around until you find the right job doing what you want, or

2. Pushing supermarket trolleys around until you find the right job.

Although I'm not going to preach for university, it's always worth considering options outside of education. You're statistically no more likely to find the job you want with degrees coming out your jaxy, then someone who goes straight into work doing what they want.

With a well written CV, some self tuition and patience, and perhaps an ongoing course such as a CCNA, employers will look a lot more highly upon you than someone who studies "something about computers" at University.

This gives you the bonus of selecting exactly what you want to do, you have the say in how you do it, when you do it - i.e. you could find yourself a cushty little job at the same time as studying for a CCNA, and at weekends learning the finer arts of whatever programming language you'd like.

Always worth a thought.

 

[Mobius]

Kingston are quite lenient from what I'm aware. It is sort of my local too and I know a few people that have been/are going there without the necessary requirements. The chances of that happening depend on how popular the course is really though, so it's a risk leaving it until clearing or whatever. If you have a year left though you should be able to do one of those night courses to gain the equivalent of a Maths A level. Just ring up the uni and ask the best way to go about it, it'll show them you're keen too. A good personal statement on your UCAS thing won't hurt too
But the course requirements are more often just guidelines than can be negotiated if you put yourself across well.

 

[mycenae]

I too am terrible at maths, and had to do a shit load of it to get onto my nursing course, and then stay on it. I spent 2 and a half years between finishing school and starting uni, just doing various jobs and experiencing the world, which uni's are now looking on as an advantage. I would suggest to go for what you think you'll enjoy, becuase then you're likely to work harder to acheive it. Take any help you can get, as most uni's will offer help with basics like maths and english from their learning support division, and don;t be disheartened. Subjects like maths can and will eventually make sense to anyone, you just have to find the right person to teach you it.....once i'd found someone who explained the maths i have to do every day in my job in a way that made it easy for me, i was laughing and haven't struggled since......even though i was always the kid crying with frustration in maths lessons at school!

 

[strangely brown]

Don't lose heart Overdriven - I actually failed A-level maths, however went on to become a fully fledged developer working on banking systems designing and writing code that sits behind ATMs and POS devices... So that's probably why none of your bank statements ever add up

Regards,
SB

 

[Tilda]

Just to rebut a bit of Kryten's post. While its true you'll probably need your student loan to get through uni personally I'd say it isn't a shit load of debt. The loan isn't one that you have to make repayments on it, for all intents and purposes, you can forget about it when you leave uni. If you're earning plenty, then they will take repayments. If you're not earning so much, then they wont take payments.
Its by no means shitloads of debt imho.

 

[Furr]

Nope, its not really that bad, if you get a degree in non mickey mouse subjects then your career earnings will be good. And its not like living in the states where University is hugely expensive and loans much larger.

 

[Overdriven]

Cheers all, taken alot into consideraton ^^

Still trying to pick which one though ^^

 

[Sharma]

Aye, I've known your name was Jason for a while xD Never said anything either. (Seen it in a few threads) - Didn't know you were doing computing though. What.. field... in computing you doing then?

Well, Networking generally, although it's around general technician work atm, i'm planning on being an Admin to start off with with security specialities.

My route through the next few years is finishing this course, doing my Security+ exam, starting a Foundation degree whilst doing a job as an IT tech so I get my 3 years experience. 1 year full time at uni so I get my full BSc (Hons) Computing and Networks then off into work again and doing a CCNA, MCSA/MCSE etc.

I find this is an ideal route instead of full-time uni mainly because I can get a full BSc in the same time AND 3 years experience, it's ideal since I will have a lot more behind me than your average uni grad.

 

[Kryten]

Fair enough @ the shitloads of debt points - not having been a student, I'm not speaking from personal experience, but it's still money you have to pay back, and by no means a guarantee of decent work.

Some people just can't do further education because of disabilities that make that type of learning next to impossible - something I personally "struggle" with. This doesn't have any reflection of that individuals intelligence levels - I flunked A Level maths and computing (!) merely because I couldn't see the relevance of any of it to actual life, or actual computing - it was indeed entirely bollocks. Wouldn't think I've an IQ higher than Einstein's (according to known texts) and even at the time of said A-Levels, knew more about the subject being taught me than the tutor

I'm not going to argue for or against your choices - they are in fact yours alone to make, but it is always a good idea to get as many opinions from as many people as possible to help make up your mind

It is always worth noting however that as part of being a student, you'll be privvy to useful resources such as lower priced licenses from Microsoft, lower priced technical subscriptions (MSDN, Technet for example) that will also help you vastly - and I will imagine the same applies for CCNA.

 

[Chilly]

you sure you went just a self important lazy git who refused to take advice from people who knew better?

 

[Kryten]

Yes

 

[Gumbo]

Well, I started with one of these

but i quickly moved onto one of these which is far stronger and more suited to distance work with it's larger wheel...

Best Uni decision I ever made!!

 

[TdC]

those pedals are scary. I hope you wear shin guards!

 

[SilverHood]

I can only speak from a systems development point of view - Java, PHP, C# ASP.net and....

IMHO, Maths is over rated - 99% of the maths you need to use, you can learn anyway, without wasting time with all the useless academic junk. If you can code, you can learn the math you need.

Anyway, those requirements are mostly just to deter lazy people from applying. Show that you've got an interest in IT and that will be worth more than a snazzy grade. After all, you're going to dedicate 3-4 years to studying, and they dont want you to drop out at the first hurdle.

Oh, and don't become a support monkey and work your way up. Degree is the way to go if you want to work in IT in the UK. If you can, do a sandwich degree, and avoid foundation years.

 

[Sharma]

Well.

I've just had some excellent news.

The guy who's running my work experience has asked me to leave my details and such behind and he'll organise an interview!

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I may be starting as a systems admin soon and have all my microsoft certs paid for!


FUCK YEAH!

 

[TdC]

ooooo! I've never seen someone say "microsoft cert" and "fuck yeah" in that order and in that manner. A different order, yes, then most certainly



good luck Sharms!

 

[Kryten]

That's the sort of thing I've been saying, Sharma. MS certification may only be the start of things to come, but experience doing an actual job in an actual working environment earning actual money and training in actual qualifications will only bring good things - hell, you might even end up working there all your life and you love it.

Makes a change from being stuck in uni for 3/4/5 (etc) years learning how to theoretically do all of the above but ACTUALLY learning more of the bollocks you DON'T want to know (health and safety, governing laws)

Ask anyone doing Comp Sci how much time is spent learning bollocks like correct posture, what to do in case of viruses etc