UKIP

[Gwadien]

I agree its not entirely the kids fault, a friend of mine (as an example) had no intention of going to uni after his a-levels but the college made him apply because it affects their stats and funding, because of this they can say "95% of our students apply for university!" when in reality many of them should be pointed at viable post-A-level careers rather than spending 4 years studying some bollox they will never use (and then be overqualified for the stuff they might actually enjoy)

This is why it annoys me when the Government goes on about 'oh yeah, we have an agricultural education system, the Chinese know how to do it properly, look at their education system, it's perfect, it's modern' Yup, look at the percentage that work in factories and such, it's got very little do with the education system, it's about society, it's about the parents, the parents push them to achieve so they don't have to work in a factory until they die, then they send them abroad, there's a reason why all the Chinese students study abroad.

We moan and bitch about privatization of all the public services because it'll be about statistics and not service, but the way that the education system operates at the minute in this country is definitely about statistics over service... There's schools out there that operate in a Nazi fashion and therefore get 100% results, kick kids out who will hamper those results, yet there's schools out there that accept these kids, and have excellent pastoral facilities that cater for said kids, and say; 'yeah you're not good at academic subjects, but you can go and do alternative courses, you won't get 5 C-A* GCSEs, but you'll do something that you can leave school with and make a career of it.

There's too much pressure on schools to make them academic rather than cater for individual needs, don't try and copy public schools, because that's what they're there for, they're to make kids who want to do well to do well.

The Tories are making it worse with their new education policies, making the english-maths-science thing into english-maths-science-it-language-humanities

 

[Job]

Back on Topic..Farage has refuted the expenses scandal..its not even expenses...just the standard 3800 quid given each month with no requirement for invoices...its yours to spend as you like...so theyll be hard pushed to nail that one on him

 

[Raven]

That depends entirely if he had spent it on shiny things rather than rent/upkeep. But yeah people just carry on outing him as a clown rather than dubious witch hunts.

 

[Job]

Ukip are nailing it...the article on the front of the times accusing him of fiddling...then admitting inside hes done nothing wrong...so theyve attacked the Times writers as part of the old boys Tory network...his good guy down the pub front is such a strong position.

 

[Scouse]

the moment English people are willing to do the minimum wage menial jobs is the moment the immigrants stop getting work.

And why should they be willing:

me·ni·al
adjective
1. lowly and sometimes degrading
2. servile; submissive

For minimum wage. I.E. Degrading and servile work for less than a living wage.

And your argument is that they should suck it up or they're scum.


Fuck that. The ONLY reason Polish people do it is because they club together and live in scummy shared housing, working long hours full in the knowledge that when they go back to Poland in a few years time they'll have a disproportionately big nest-egg to go back with.

I.E. Coming over here, working for a few years, going back to poland to take advantage of the fact that it's dirt cheap over there is the ONLY reason they do it.


Menial and degrading jobs should pay more if they want brits to do the work. It's a shitty economic system - not inherantly lazy workers.

 

[Mabs]

And why should they be willing:


For minimum wage. I.E. Degrading and servile work for less than a living wage. And your argument is that they should suck it up or they're scum.


Fuck that. The ONLY reason Polish people do it is because they club together and live in scummy shared housing, working long hours full in the knowledge that when they go back to Poland in a few years time they'll have a disproportionately big nest-egg to go back with.

I.E. Coming over here, working for a few years, going back to poland to take advantage of the fact that it's dirt cheap over there is the ONLY reason they do it.


Menial and degrading jobs should pay more if they want brits to do the work. It's a shitty economic system - not inherantly lazy workers.

yes because things like cleaning the toilets in the train stations at 3am magically happens all by itself ? of course people should do the jobs. assuming its beneath "you" but suitable for "immigrants" is quite laughable

 

[Raven]

And why should they be willing:


For minimum wage. I.E. Degrading and servile work for less than a living wage.

And your argument is that they should suck it up or they're scum.


Fuck that. The ONLY reason Polish people do it is because they club together and live in scummy shared housing, working long hours full in the knowledge that when they go back to Poland in a few years time they'll have a disproportionately big nest-egg to go back with.

I.E. Coming over here, working for a few years, going back to poland to take advantage of the fact that it's dirt cheap over there is the ONLY reason they do it.


Menial and degrading jobs should pay more if they want brits to do the work. It's a shitty economic system - not inherantly lazy workers.

Because nobody is going to pay someone 40k to clean the bogs.

Would you train for years and work under huge pressure to get paid the same as a bog cleaner? No, you would want more....say 60-70k.

 

[Scouse]

Way to completely and spectacularly miss my point (or deliberately misconstrue it).

yes because things like cleaning the toilets in the train stations at 3am magically happens all by itself ? of course people should do the jobs. assuming its beneath "you" but suitable for "immigrants" is quite laughable

I'm not saying it's "suitable work for immigrants" - I'm saying it doesn't pay enough for British workers because they can't up sticks and leave their families to make it financially worth it like the Poles can.

It's only financially worth it for the Poles because they've no intention of staying in Britain - it doesn't pay enough to be worth it for them - British workers would be moving to Poland in droves, working for a couple of years and making their money worth more by returning to Blighty to buy cheap houses if our economies were reversed.

And Poles like you and Raven would be sitting here complaining that Polish workers are fucking lazy scum who should take menial degrading work so the hard working British stopped coming over...

Because nobody is going to pay someone 40k to clean the bogs

Absolutely true. Not in this economy. But stop complaining about "lazy scummy brits" - when it's not that they're lazy or scummy - it's the fact that it just isn't worth it financially for them.

I wouldn't do it. YOU wouldn't do it. If you say you would you're lying out of your arse. The poles only do it because they know that, financially, when they return to poland, it makes sense.

 

[Raven]

I would certainly do it if it paid more than job club, which it does. (if I had to that is)

 

[Scouse]

Lawl

 

[Raven]

I would never need to though because I decided early on that Xbox and Jeremy Kyle was not bettering myself.

Oh, also, I come from a single parent family ans left school without even a single GCSE - I didn't even turn up for the exams. I do OK now though. Being given no chance in life is an excuse used by the lazy.

 

[Scouse]

"They're all scum fuckers should be shot I hate them rageragerage/dailymail"

 

[Raven]

Er, not quite no.

 

[Job]

Remember Auf Weideirsen pet...we did the same to the Germans in the 80s

 

[throdgrain]

I will definitely vote UKIP in the Euro elections. Probably not in the proper election though, I'm scared of Labour getting back in

 

[old.user4556]

The ONLY reason Polish people do it is because they club together and live in scummy shared housing, working long hours full in the knowledge that when they go back to Poland in a few years time they'll have a disproportionately big nest-egg to go back with.

I.E. Coming over here, working for a few years, going back to poland to take advantage of the fact that it's dirt cheap over there is the ONLY reason they do it.

My Indian guys are the same and freely admit it. They come here, get paid UK salaries, go back to India and live like a Maharajah. One of the guys I know has made so much cash that he's bought land and "built" a four storey block of flats which he rents out.

... and why wouldn't you.

 

[DaGaffer]

Remember Auf Weideirsen pet...we did the same to the Germans in the 80s

My did was working in Germany in the seventies, and came back with enough cash for out first house. Something I have to point out to my mother on the occasions when she goes all Daily Mail about immigration (she also fails to see the irony that they retired to Cyprus...)

 

[Mabs]

BNP had an "expats in spain BNP supporters" facebook page

i laughed, and cried

 

[Scouse]

My Indian guys are the same and freely admit it. They come here, get paid UK salaries, go back to India and live like a Maharajah. One of the guys I know has made so much cash that he's bought land and "built" a four storey block of flats which he rents out.

... and why wouldn't you.

Yep. Completely. Apart from the Indian's I know do IT jobs - slightly cheaper than their UK couterparts. But they'll fuck off back once their kids have been schooled here. (And I'll get great cheap holidays in the amazing places they've bought).

They wouldn't do it in India. Not worth it for them... Just like our scummy work-dodgers eh?

 

[Job]

Looks like Farage is going for broke...no apology from the Romanians next door comment...in fact he went straight for 'you know what we think' this is getting very nasty.

 

[soze]

Did you ask them who's going to;

• Provide the underpaid logistics to get parcels and such to their houses.
• Build their houses, and their offices for them to earn their big wage jobs
• Basically, any minimum wage or less job.

I don't think people truly appreciate what the immigrant work force does to this country, I went to sign up for an agency that does night shift work £7p/h or something, and when I walked in, they started asking me questions in Polish, I looked at them funny, so they tried something else, Latvian, and I had to explain that I was English, it's not that 'they're' taking all our jobs, it's the fact we do not want those jobs.

There's a huge new housing estate being built near me, so I decided to go for a cycle down there to be nosy, (this sounds like a start of a joke) and there was one house being built by poles, another by Sikhs, and another by people from a Baltic state (wasn't exactly sure) and all the supervisors (as far as I could tell) were English.

Obviously more needs to be done about the ones that abuse the welfare state, but that's still a minority, because you see them, and the only reason they're the ones you see is because the hard working migrants are working 12+ hour shifts.

We were discussing that and the answer to that question is the Welfare state. We should take benefits away from anyone unwilling to do a minimum wage job. We should not make them better off than the people who have a work ethic. The Welfare State is the problem not just immigration.

 

[Job]

Those migrants working for minimum wage in previously high paid skilled jobs are quite simply..no matter how much you sugarcoat it ..taking the jobs and undermining the status of those workers...every where I go ..poles..romanians..hungarians......working for a pittance ..increasing the profits of the investors and reducing the living standards of the ordinary worker..widening the income gap...ended in a revolution in France...wheres the guillotine?

 

[Gwadien]

We were discussing that and the answer to that question is the Welfare state. We should take benefits away from anyone unwilling to do a minimum wage job. We should not make them better off than the people who have a work ethic. The Welfare State is the problem not just immigration.

So you've got Joe Bloggs, who's been laid off his work because the School got shut down due to cuts - he's a qualified, let's say.. Teacher, he's 50 years old, and you force him to work packaging boxes?

Whilst I agree that there's a lot of people out there that abuse the dole system, the truth is that they have no work ethic for a reason, if you force them to work, they'll do it unwillingly, and be a shit workforce, Poles are an excellent force of labour - it's simply down to money though - They see their selves as doing an easy job, and earning a fuck load - a Brit would see it as a hard labour job with shit pay.

Obviously I don't have the statistics, but I doubt if you got ALL the abusers of the welfare state working, it would not make up for the amount that immigrants put in - and as I mention above, the companies would not be impressed with the work force that they have.

The Job Centres should put people into decent work with the skills and the wishes that they have, not tell them to get the nearest job and stick to it, because it makes them look better.

 

[Gwadien]

Those migrants working for minimum wage in previously high paid skilled jobs are quite simply..no matter how much you sugarcoat it ..taking the jobs and undermining the status of those workers...every where I go ..poles..romanians..hungarians......working for a pittance ..increasing the profits of the investors and reducing the living standards of the ordinary worker..widening the income gap...ended in a revolution in France...wheres the guillotine?

No, the French Revolution, and American Revolution for that matter were Middle Class revolutions.

 

[soze]

So you've got Joe Bloggs, who's been laid off his work because the School got shut down due to cuts - he's a qualified, let's say.. Teacher, he's 50 years old, and you force him to work packaging boxes?

Whilst I agree that there's a lot of people out there that abuse the dole system, the truth is that they have no work ethic for a reason, if you force them to work, they'll do it unwillingly, and be a shit workforce, Poles are an excellent force of labour - it's simply down to money though - They see their selves as doing an easy job, and earning a fuck load - a Brit would see it as a hard labour job with shit pay.

Obviously I don't have the statistics, but I doubt if you got ALL the abusers of the welfare state working, it would not make up for the amount that immigrants put in - and as I mention above, the companies would not be impressed with the work force that they have.

The Job Centres should put people into decent work with the skills and the wishes that they have, not tell them to get the nearest job and stick to it, because it makes them look better.

Not right away no. Every effort should be made to find him a job in his chosen field. But if after a year he has not found a job then yes he should have to work for his benefit. But the people who have never had a job then absolutely yes they should be forced to work. The fact you can earn more sitting on your arse doing absolutely nothing than you can doing "menial" jobs is why being a dole scrounger is socially acceptable which is just wrong.

I have often said there is no way someone claiming dole should have a smoking habit sky tv a iPhone and broadband. If you are on the dole and dont want to work you should get a roof over your head and food nothing else. I think like other countries if you lose a job you have had for years you should get more benefits for an acceptable amount of time to help you find a new job. But these pricks who never have and never will work should be far less comfortable than they are.

 

[Gwadien]

Not right away no. Every effort should be made to find him a job in his chosen field. But if after a year he has not found a job then yes he should have to work for his benefit. But the people who have never had a job then absolutely yes they should be forced to work. The fact you can earn more sitting on your arse doing absolutely nothing than you can doing "menial" jobs is why being a dole scrounger is socially acceptable which is just wrong.

I have often said there is no way someone claiming dole should have a smoking habit sky tv a iPhone and broadband. If you are on the dole and dont want to work you should get a roof over your head and food nothing else. I think like other countries if you lose a job you have had for years you should get more benefits for an acceptable amount of time to help you find a new job. But these pricks who never have and never will work should be far less comfortable than they are.

Yeah, but you can't categorise people like that, it's not very 'PC'.

I do agree with you, but it's not that easy.. It's OK for me (and you, I'd imagine) coming from decent backgrounds, and not having to live in the shit, it's all well and good pointing downward and saying live like this, live like that, do this, do that.

As @Scouse says on a regular basis, as a society, we've agreed that it's acceptable for people to abuse the system, because the alternative is pretty harsh.. End of the day, the welfare state scroungers probably cost us a lot less than richer people avoiding their taxes

 

[soze]

Yeah, but you can't categorise people like that, it's not very 'PC'.

I do agree with you, but it's not that easy.. It's OK for me (and you, I'd imagine) coming from decent backgrounds, and not having to live in the shit, it's all well and good pointing downward and saying live like this, live like that, do this, do that.

As @Scouse says on a regular basis, as a society, we've agreed that it's acceptable for people to abuse the system, because the alternative is pretty harsh.. End of the day, the welfare state scroungers probably cost us a lot less than richer people avoiding their taxes

I think it is because I watched my Mum and Dad work two jobs my whole childhood just too afford a mortgagee they are still paying and coming from the shit is why I have zero time for people who don't try.

 

[Job]

There are plenty of people earning good money for no go reason while sitting on their asses in the middle classes and above...about half the jobs in middle England could be fucked off to the advantage of us all...but at least I suppose they got off their asses at some point to invent some bullshit profession and surround themselves with people who need them to justify their pointless jobs.

 

[Gwadien]

There are plenty of people earning good money for no go reason while sitting on their asses in the middle classes and above...about half the jobs in middle England could be fucked off to the advantage of us all...but at least I suppose they got off their asses at some point to invent some bullshit profession and surround themselves with people who need them to justify their pointless jobs.

For instance....

I'll give you middle-management in councils, but that's still a minority..

 

[Kami]

The only reason you have middle management is that top level managers are either completely fucking useless or lazy.