Todays Terror alert

[Furr]

As we all no doubt know the goverment is claiming it has arrested 21 people in connection with a plot involving blowing up airlines flying to the States.

So far the news is saying that the potential bombers are British born and have Pakistani links.

If this is true and the intelligence is indeed correct this time I would have no qualms if they used torture to find out more information on who else was involved and other information, if the evidence was solid enough to show that the individual was 100% certainly involved in this.

If any of you watched dispatches on C4 the other day, it shows that there is a large problem with the muslim community in this country. That they want Sharia law, that they don't not believe in our way of life or even in democracy.

Alot of people in Britain from other races and religions are living here in peace, including what we are told is a large section of muslims, However among this majority is a large portion who essentally hate us. People who live in Britain however are not going to change the way they live, and these people aren't going to change the way they think.

Its only going to get worse, soon i dare say i envisage a massive backlash against the muslims in this country, I can even see a far right extremist group bombing mosques in the next decade.

So here's my question if a particular group of people within a relgion are so opposed to our way of life that they will use murder as a means to get across their point should we not consider them traitors. I sure as hell don't want to live in a country where it becomes more and more dangerous to live due to a group within a 1.6 million population getting more and more extreme.

What do you believe should be done to tackle this, the leftists would want to appease and the right will want to lock them down and chuck them in jail. I used to be relativly moderate but since 7/7, the failed bombings, the ricin scare, todays information, i am slowing coming to the point that I would rather we stop pussy footing around the issue, point our fingers at the community and tell them to fix up or get out.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'll say what i always say in these matters. No comment.

If i start to say my view on it, people don't like it since it might be different and that leads no unnecessary name-calling and such 'n such.
¨
EDIT: Wanted to bring my view on the whole thing, apologies if you feel i didn't contribute on the matter.

 

[throdgrain]

Yes we should consider them as traitors. I would remove any and all of them from the country, one way or the other.

 

[Aada]

As we all no doubt know the goverment is claiming it has arrested 21 people in connection with a plot involving blowing up airlines flying to the States.

So far the news is saying that the potential bombers are British born and have Pakistani links.

If this is true and the intelligence is indeed correct this time I would have no qualms if they used torture to find out more information on who else was involved and other information, if the evidence was solid enough to show that the individual was 100% certainly involved in this.

If any of you watched dispatches on C4 the other day, it shows that there is a large problem with the muslim community in this country. That they want Sharia law, that they don't not believe in our way of life or even in democracy.

Alot of people in Britain from other races and religions are living here in peace, including what we are told is a large section of muslims, However among this majority is a large portion who essentally hate us. People who live in Britain however are not going to change the way they live, and these people aren't going to change the way they think.

Its only going to get worse, soon i dare say i envisage a massive backlash against the muslims in this country, I can even see a far right extremist group bombing mosques in the next decade.

So here's my question if a particular group of people within a relgion are so opposed to our way of life that they will use murder as a means to get across their point should we not consider them traitors. I sure as hell don't want to live in a country where it becomes more and more dangerous to live due to a group within a 1.6 million population getting more and more extreme.

What do you believe should be done to tackle this, the leftists would want to appease and the right will want to lock them down and chuck them in jail. I used to be relativly moderate but since 7/7, the failed bombings, the ricin scare, todays information, i am slowing coming to the point that I would rather we stop pussy footing around the issue, point our fingers at the community and tell them to fix up or get out.

Glad we don't live under your rule then.

Get over yourself.

As usual in life its a small minority of people that are ruining it for the majority of Muslims and so everyone points a finger at them.

Tell a few law abiding million people that if they don't fix the problem then they will all be deported?

Sounds like aload of shit to me, its about time people like YOU stopped tarnishing everyone with a different colour skin then white.

 

[Furr]

Im think i can comment without being complete called a racist as im mixed raced with English and Indian genes (little bit of german and irish as well) But anyhow, I would have no qualms with the country arresting muslims and locking them up. If i was tarnishing eveyone with coloured skin to get out i would have to say for myself to get out. But having spoken to many family members on my mums side who are Hindu/buddist/Christian They all say the same thing. Muslims are troublemakers and have been for an age.

Small minority being 1/3 of muslims saying that they sympathise with the 7/7 bombers. try going to countries which have had enthnic strife between the native relgion and islam for centuris maybe then you'll realise the inherrent flaw with the appeasement tactic.

 

[Raven]

not all muslims are "troublemakers" true muslims think it is wrong to kill innocent people the same way we do. though i agree the fanatics should be deported on a mass scale, if they dont like this country or its laws then why the hell are they living here?

 

[Tom]

As we all no doubt know the goverment is claiming it has arrested 21 people in connection with a plot involving blowing up airlines flying to the States.

So far the news is saying that the potential bombers are British born and have Pakistani links.

If this is true and the intelligence is indeed correct this time I would have no qualms if they used torture to find out more information on who else was involved and other information, if the evidence was solid enough to show that the individual was 100% certainly involved in this.

Torture has never been a reliable way of extracting the truth. I've no doubt that it happens (ala '24') sometimes, but I won't ever condone it's use.

If any of you watched dispatches on C4 the other day, it shows that there is a large problem with the muslim community in this country. That they want Sharia law, that they don't not believe in our way of life or even in democracy.

Plenty of other people like that, and not even Muslim. Its called a democracy, people can think and say pretty much whatever they like.

Alot of people in Britain from other races and religions are living here in peace, including what we are told is a large section of muslims, However among this majority is a large portion who essentally hate us. People who live in Britain however are not going to change the way they live, and these people aren't going to change the way they think.

Majority of what? Was that a typo, or a subtle grammatical 'mistake' to suggest that most Muslims 'hate us'? Oh and people in this country are continually changing how they live, and how they think. It happens all the time. Leopards do change their spots.

Its only going to get worse, soon i dare say i envisage a massive backlash against the muslims in this country, I can even see a far right extremist group bombing mosques in the next decade.

If they do, they'll be arrested, charged, tried and sentenced if found guilty. Just like any Muslim terrorists.

So here's my question if a particular group of people within a relgion are so opposed to our way of life that they will use murder as a means to get across their point should we not consider them traitors. I sure as hell don't want to live in a country where it becomes more and more dangerous to live due to a group within a 1.6 million population getting more and more extreme.

Traitors to what? We're not at war with anyone, its not like they're helping German spies with secrets, is it? Charge them with whatever offence they're accused of committing, and let the judicial system sort them out.

What do you believe should be done to tackle this, the leftists would want to appease and the right will want to lock them down and chuck them in jail. I used to be relativly moderate but since 7/7, the failed bombings, the ricin scare, todays information, i am slowing coming to the point that I would rather we stop pussy footing around the issue, point our fingers at the community and tell them to fix up or get out.

I think we should try and get all communities to realise that they have a contribution to make to our society, and that they have a responsibility to actively discourage any extreme views or behaviour. The alternative you're suggesting is grotesque.

 

[nath]

First I agree with Wij, now I agree with Tom.

What an odd week.

 

[Ormorof]

good thing my cousins flew home yesterday! or they'd have gotten stuck

 

[leggy]

My lass had to get the train from edinburgh to brum as her flight was cancelled.

Execute them!

Reasoning: I have had to wait 3 hours longer for an oil change.

 

[Furr]

stuff

Wasn't a grammatical mistake, i did mean the majority will live by the rules of the uk and may intergrate and love this country but what is being found from the attempts to study "what muslims want" is that the older generations were more willing to intergrate but a growing number of the later british born generations are now more fundemental in their thinking, its as if intergration is working backwards. With some british born muslims wanting to undermine britain and not abide by its laws.

I agree that the various people coming in will contribute to the UK, and have no reason to want to stop completely immigration. But now you have a seperatist state of mind with a portion of the muslims in this country. They hate our liberal laws, the way of life, it gets more extreme the further you go down to the core. Yes you have this in all nations. But the muslims are more violent in how they express themselves.

And is it a democratic system they are using when they bombed the tube? Is is democratic to vent your feelings of a situation but wanting to kill innocent civilians? Was it democratic when they flew the planes into the twin towers? or how about when they bombed a market place during a holiday season in Delhi or their train system, how about Bali, Kenya, Russia, Spain and the plots in Canada.

Yes i didn't say it would be good if they start bombing mosques but it would not now be unthinkable for it to happen. They may well get caught but the damage would be done.

We are at at war with terrorists, with their organisations and indirectly with the states that support them.

The alternative is that unless muslims sort themselves out, they will further isolate themselves from the rest of society. Its their move. If they aren't able to do it, then what im suggesting is maybe the countries that have the problem will have to eventually take action to protect themselves.

 

[throdgrain]

Im think i can comment without being complete called a racist as im mixed raced with English and Indian genes (little bit of german and irish as well) But anyhow, I would have no qualms with the country arresting muslims and locking them up. If i was tarnishing eveyone with coloured skin to get out i would have to say for myself to get out. But having spoken to many family members on my mums side who are Hindu/buddist/Christian They all say the same thing. Muslims are troublemakers and have been for an age.

Small minority being 1/3 of muslims saying that they sympathise with the 7/7 bombers. try going to countries which have had enthnic strife between the native relgion and islam for centuris maybe then you'll realise the inherrent flaw with the appeasement tactic.

Of course your a racist man! You said something, ANYTHING, about someone with dark skin.
Notice how we're allowed, on Al-Beeb even, to discuss immigration at the moment. Wht? Because ita about Polish people and the ilk, who have conspicuosly light skin! Say theres too many people coming from Pakistan and god help you, the moral majority will be upon you like an outraged mary Poppins.
Some of you here, and most of the country, have PC bullshit so ingrained into you , you dont even know you're doing it! I notice it a lot on here, where you're all quite young (most of you anyway ) , you've had this bullshit indoctrinated into you at school. Noe one , at any stage, has said anything remotely like "hunt-down-and-kill-anyone-with-a-black-face", yet some of you are just praying it will happen, so you can polish up your PC halos.
Notice also how the womans liberation movement, so active for so many decades, is now silent , even though 20 years ago they were begging other women to burn thier bras, now they dont even mention the odd yashmack or two .
Makes me weep.

 

[Tom]

Wasn't a grammatical mistake, i did mean the majority will live by the rules of the uk and may intergrate and love this country but what is being found from the attempts to study "what muslims want" is that the older generations were more willing to intergrate but a growing number of the later british born generations are now more fundemental in their thinking, its as if intergration is working backwards. With some british born muslims wanting to undermine britain and not abide by its laws.

So what? So long as they don't break any laws, they can think whatever they like. If they want to change this country in some capacity, for instance if they want the public stoning of women, they can stand up and shout for a bit. If people agree, they'll get voted into power from where they can try to effect a change in the law. If people don't, well they'll just have to accept that their message is either flawed, or not articulated correctly. If they don't accept that, and go down the criminal route, then its obvious what happens then.

I agree that the various people coming in will contribute to the UK, and have no reason to want to stop completely immigration. But now you have a seperatist state of mind with a portion of the muslims in this country. They hate our liberal laws, the way of life, it gets more extreme the further you go down to the core. Yes you have this in all nations. But the muslims are more violent in how they express themselves.

How big a portion? Personally I reckon its a very small portion, roughly the same size as the idiots who despise anyone who doesn't drive a Morris Minor and laugh at Carry-On films.

And is it a democratic system they are using when they bombed the tube? Is is democratic to vent your feelings of a situation but wanting to kill innocent civilians? Was it democratic when they flew the planes into the twin towers? or how about when they bombed a market place during a holiday season in Delhi or their train system, how about Bali, Kenya, Russia, Spain and the plots in Canada.

No, thats completely undemocratic. But you're confusing the right to freedom of choice with criminal activities designed to effect changes in the laws of a democratic society. And you're forgetting that you don't need to be a Muslim to commit any of these acts. There are plenty of loonies around the world, including the UK.

Yes i didn't say it would be good if they start bombing mosques but it would not now be unthinkable for it to happen. They may well get caught but the damage would be done.

Only the idiots of a society would mistake the actions of an extremist for the beliefs of the majority.

We are at at war with terrorists, with their organisations and indirectly with the states that support them.

No we're not. We're actively trying to stop them, war is a word thats been hijacked by the press and politicians. It makes real wars more palatable, and makes the line between the two more hazy.

The alternative is that unless muslims sort themselves out, they will further isolate themselves from the rest of society. Its their move. If they aren't able to do it, then what im suggesting is maybe the countries that have the problem will have to eventually take action to protect themselves.

Agree.

Of course your a racist man! You said something, ANYTHING, about someone with dark skin.
Notice how we're allowed, on Al-Beeb even, to discuss immigration at the moment. Wht? Because ita about Polish people and the ilk, who have conspicuosly light skin! Say theres too many people coming from Pakistan and god help you, the moral majority will be upon you like an outraged mary Poppins.
Some of you here, and most of the country, have PC bullshit so ingrained into you , you dont even know you're doing it! I notice it a lot on here, where you're all quite young (most of you anyway ) , you've had this bullshit indoctrinated into you at school. Noe one , at any stage, has said anything remotely like "hunt-down-and-kill-anyone-with-a-black-face", yet some of you are just praying it will happen, so you can polish up your PC halos.
Notice also how the womans liberation movement, so active for so many decades, is now silent , even though 20 years ago they were begging other women to burn thier bras, now they dont even mention the odd yashmack or two .
Makes me weep.

I agree with your sentiments, I hate not being able to discuss emotive subjects without stupid people screaming RACIST at me, but its possible to hold egalitarian views without being incorrectly labelled as PC.

 

[Furr]

Exactly, plus alot of white people are also excluded from hearing what people of Muslim orientation actually think. Many of them will say one thing to everyone and something very different to their own community.

Its a credit i suppose that liberal secual britain constantly tries to engage with them, but have you thought that they are just paying the attempts with lip service. the larger portion of muslims live here fine, and are british.

But you do have a group of people who have clustered together, goto their own schools, read their own news. and are basically isolated from the rest of the country you are not going to be able to change the way they think or intergrate them into your society. They will become more more isolated and angry and what they see is the godless people living the high life.

Why don't they leave? oh we it might have something to do with the free NHS, working water, gas and electricity. Good roads and high standard of living and the climate. They like leaving here, just alot of them hate having to live here with you and me.

Only the idiots of a society would mistake the actions of an extremist for the beliefs of the majority.

I just have to point to large portions of the west who do blame all of islam for the terrorist attacks round the world

How big a portion? Personally I reckon its a very small portion, roughly the same size as the idiots who despise anyone who doesn't drive a Morris Minor and laugh at Carry-On films.

Even if its just 1% thats still 16,000 muslims who want to kill us all

So what? So long as they don't break any laws, they can think whatever they like. If they want to change this country in some capacity, for instance if they want the public stoning of women, they can stand up and shout for a bit. If people agree, they'll get voted into power from where they can try to effect a change in the law. If people don't, well they'll just have to accept that their message is either flawed, or not articulated correctly. If they don't accept that, and go down the criminal route, then its obvious what happens then.

Well yes, but they need to understand that, we hear about these honour killings and public rampages killing individuals all the time, its the same thing but in their communities. Its a pitty this crappy goverment hasn't outlawed forced marriage as its may "offend muslims" ffs

 

[mank!]

i don't see what the big fuss is, the pepsi + mento myth was disproved wasn't it?

 

[rynnor]

Once Blairs gone things will improve with the Muslim community - tbh most of our recent past has consisted of the worst possible decisions to alienate muslims.

Eventually we will get out of Iraq/Afghanistan, perhaps we might even get a leader who actually understands the muslim community enough not to go from one blunder to another.

I think things are bad today but can easily get better - if we can give the moderates a chance theres no reason why the muslims cannot live peacefully in the UK.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I know i said no comment...but..umm...

I'll give a point of view that might make people think.

Muslims have extremists who kill other people in the name of their religion.

Christians had the crusades...killing EVERYONE who wasn't one or didn't convert.

...make any point?

 

[throdgrain]

That was 300 years ago , what does that have to do with now? Nothing.
And why should we be out of Afghanistan? Whilst I agree that Iraq was a bad move, staying in Afghanistan certainly wasnt.

 

[Tom]

I do share some of your concerns Furr, but I disagree with your interpretation of the climate.

Groups of like-minded people have always gathered together to form communities. Face it, where would you rather live - in a white area filled with a good mix of young and old people, where people trim their hedgerows on a weekend and enjoy warm beer with soil in it, or an Indian (for want of a better word) area with people just as nice, and with just as harmless hobbies? I know where I'd rather live. Call it racist, but I like to live where my neighbours share my interests.

You can't forcibly 'integrate' peoples from different societies. Social engineering like that IMO doesn't work. All you can do is hope to foster good relations with your neighbouring communties, trade with them, share the same cinemas/pubs/open spaces/parks etc. Let each community have its own special needs facilities, schools etc, theres no problems with that. When you try to spread people around, put them in places they're not comfortable with, thats where you get trouble. The problems in Oldham a few years back were precisely at the border between the Asian and white English areas of the town - although I prefer to think of it as a border between likeminded fools who want to go burning things for a laugh.

Quote:Only the idiots of a society would mistake the actions of an extremist for the beliefs of the majority.

I just have to point to large portions of the west who do blame all of islam for the terrorist attacks round the world

I prefer to think that its still a very small minority of people who think that Islam is the cause of these problems. Blaming religion for life's ills is ignoring the true cause of the problem - fighting over bits of land, bits of property, and who has the biggest dick.

Quote:How big a portion? Personally I reckon its a very small portion, roughly the same size as the idiots who despise anyone who doesn't drive a Morris Minor and laugh at Carry-On films.

Even if its just 1% thats still 16,000 muslims who want to kill us all

Oh come on, where do you get 1% from? With respect, thats just a made up figure that bears no resemblance to fact.


Honour killings = crime = jail - as has been demonstrated repeatedly.

Oh and forced marriage is illegal in the UK. I think you actually meant arranged marriage, which is very different and actually statistically more successful than your average English marriage.

 

[Furr]

The forced marriage legislation never went though.....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-2282623,00.html

I was just putting a percentage in that I made up, but what im saying is that there defintly is hostility in the muslim community towards this country we all know that. Yes the number who want to kill us is tiny. But you my want to read this to get an idea of numbers.

http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site Download.pdf

PDF FILE!!!!

Yes obviously groups that have the same culture want to live together, However! Muslims have ghettoised in that they are isolating themselves from the generall population so that they may nearly never mix with the normal population of a country outside their small community.

 

[Tom]

Well fair enough theres no specific legislation to outlaw a forced marriage, but you can't force a person to get married if they don't want to.

 

[Furr]

Well usually yes, but if you are a girl in a hardcore islamic family if you don't you could be subject to phyical abuse, imprisonment at the home or even being sent abroad and murdered.

And they do have the option to go to the police, but like the wife who gets beaten but doesn't compain. Its the same with the family.

 

[Calaen]

Really tired typed this out and thought I better spoiler it. Lots of swearing bad words and general nastiness but im sick of the shit sleep well.

Spoiler

tbh i dont give a fuck about the muslims or any other half wit religious mother fucker that thinks it is his goal in life to kill innocent people. Find them all arrest their families freeze their assests then put them on a boat and sink the **** in the middle of the atlantic.

I have had enough of them complaining about being picked on they fucking deserve it all they do is fucking moan they are no different to normal white fucking children. They are just fucking sheep listening too bullshit that their grandfathers are telling them about some horsehit fucking prophecy about virgins. They wouldnt know a virgin if she'd slap her fanny on their fucking faces.

If those bastards dont get locked up in a small fucking room with no food or water for weeks im gonna go fucking off. but no we will have some british born white guy fighting for their humanitarian rights. lock that fuckwit up aswell fucking shit stirer.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That was 300 years ago , what does that have to do with now? Nothing.

Well umm...extremists nowadays are like those crusaders back then really. Actually a bit better.

Even if we live under one "time", it doesn't mean all nations are in the same era. Which kinda is a problem in itself.

If they had all the technology, infrastructure, housing, watersystems, public transportation, no foreign people interfering with their business...i guess they'd be happy to live and let live too?

I dunno..this is why i don't discuss these matters really..and yet always get drawn into them...

 

[throdgrain]

You dont discuss these matters because you dont have a clue, clearly

Calaen, you fucking rock mate

 

[old.Tohtori]

You dont discuss these matters because you dont have a clue, clearly

Well i could argue the same things people usually do, but i like to bring up different points 'cause i really don't care for the matter

 

[Paradroid]

First I agree with Wij, now I agree with Tom.

What an odd week.

He was being unusually agreeable, catches you off-guard.


...I don't know what happened with Wij, you must have been drunk.

 

[Mofo8]

Nobody's asked why young British Muslim men might contemplate suicide bombings! Is it because they want to kill or convert all Christians and found an Islamic Sharia state in the UK? I don't fucking think so! Is it not more likely that their blood is boiling over issues like Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon, where they see the west as being invaders and aggressors? Most fucking probably!

I know it's really hard for some folk to admit, but.... we are on the wrong fucking side on this one thanks to Bliar. Yes 9/11 was tragic, yes the madrid bombing and the 7/7 attacks were tragic, but WHY the fuck did they happen?

Just because "they" are evil and we are good? Bollocks! Because it's the only way they have or striking at first world powers... who are in the wrong! When are Bush and Blair going to tackle some of the nasty African problems? Never! NO FUCKING OIL OR JEWS THERE!

 

[Mofo8]

He was being unusually agreeable, catches you off-guard.


...I don't know what happened with Wij, you must have been drunk.

Gerry.... you'll need to give me a bell sometime, or at least answer your e-mails

 

[Wij]

I know it's really hard for some folk to admit, but.... we are on the wrong fucking side on this one thanks to Bliar. Yes 9/11 was tragic, yes the madrid bombing and the 7/7 attacks were tragic, but WHY the fuck did they happen?

Seriously, tell me. What justifies murder to you ? I know how this conversation is gonna go but make your pitch anyway.