Toa Lag -- Right-Now Appeal

[Sheph]

Well.. If you're saying that I'll have to change my 1 year old comp:
AMD Athlon 2600+
1 GB DDR RAM
GForce 4800 (256 MB Ram)
Can't remember rest of the spec at the moment.. But i'f you're saying I'll have to change that into a newer comp to play DAoC, then sorry, I can't afford that.. Think GOA will lose a lot of Mid/Pryd players (since it seems to be not just a lot worse, but only happening here) if that's the case...

I had a 4800 before but it doesnt cut it in TOA. Some1 said dont listen to me. Now thats true. But read what i write. If u wanna improve performance that is. PEACE OUT!

 

[Angara]

For those statements about getting a better pc, read the back of your TOA packet :
Minimum system requirements
PentiumIII 1.4GHz or AMD equivalent
384 MB Ram compatible 3D acceleration card with 32 MB video Ram (64MB recommended) if the truth is thats not enough we can all drag Mythic to court.

Are you serious cause it says: M I N I M U M
Or do i miss the sarcasm maybe

 

[Aremeriel]

Read what you wrote and well...

This machine has no lag at all at 1600x1200 full TOA effects.

Actually i can run 2xDaoc 1600x1200 full effects on this computer without lag.

You're saying full TOA effects, is that on Mid/Pryd INSIDE TOA?

I haven't tried 1600x1200 on my comp, my screen ain't big enough for that to be comfortable, but I can run 2* Daoc 1024x768 without lag... Usually use SI client if I run 2 windows, but that's just so I won't have to move any of my ingame windows because of windowed mode... I have had no probs running 2* TOA clients either, but I still experience constant lag from 2 sec and up to 30 sec in TOA...

 

[Animus]

Rightnowed it.
Oh and Sheph, i have system similar to yours and yes i run dual and i still have lag in toa. Come experience it sometimes.

 

[Stinko]

I dunno how the AMD64 works with these kind of games. I use a P4 to be sure no probs will occur. Do u run Dual DDR ? And no 9700PRO is not enuff.

Don't listen to him. I used to run a Gforce 2 MX in TOA in the early hours without no lag what so ever. Ugly graphics though

 

[SkarIronfist]

Lets not confuse running 2 clients and the lag on TOA on Pydrwen.

I am sure that we have a few people whose system is not really up to the job, but they know what to expect and what to deal with, they know that when they turn around in aegirhamn the screen is going to job around alittle, due to the processors/gfx card abilitiy to handle that many people/npcs.

But its when the time it takes for text and commands to be sent up to the servers and sent back downstream, starts taking 5 - 10 seconds for alot of people, you know its not a client pc hardware problem.

Now it could be network, fair enough, but I am sure that alot of the guilds out there have people from many countries who are all experiencing the same problem. So unless we are all going via the same core routers (Which we do between countries), then as more people are affected, then we must be looking a aproblem closer and closer to the servers.

You can tell when the lag is getting bad, when people start commenting on it in /gu.

We basically went through a very good patch where the lag went away, it the last 7 - 10 days it has slowly got worse.

The AMD 64 and P4 (With Hyperthreading) run 2 clients alot better than the Amd Athlon (As long as you have plenty of memory).

Regarding the hardware issues - I have plenty of upstream/downstream bandwidth, a very good machine, with plenty of memory (DDR), excellent graphics card and blinding disk subsystem.

 

[Animus]

Skar, you should be working instead of browsing forums

 

[xxManiacxx]

I dunno how the AMD64 works with these kind of games. I use a P4 to be sure no probs will occur. Do u run Dual DDR ? And no 9700PRO is not enuff.

Strange. Is there another graphic motor on Excal ToA then? becuase I have no lag there. and I know the difference between fps lag, ms lag, server lag and client lag.

And btw. yes Radeon 9700PRO is enough. Radeon 9100 is also enough. If you can´t make a game like DAOC float with a Radeon 9700PRO you really need to check you drivers.

And for AMD64. They work superb on every game. Only difference is that AMD64 requires high-end memories ie you can´t just go to your local dealer and get a noname memory module.

Tests has been done by me and by alot of others to see the difference between AMD64 and a regular 32bit CPU in Windows XP. As you probably know Win XP64bit is still in beta and atm running poorer then the 32bit version. We had up to 20% gain in performance just by switching out a 32bit CPU to a 64bit CPU. There is no game or program that we have tested that have worked slower/poorer on the 64bit CPU then it works on a regular 32bit CPU.

Although I doubt DAOC will ever support 64bit it still does run better then on a 32bit CPU.

Only time I get fps lag is when we are on a RR with 150+ mids and facing 100+ hibs and shrooms. Other then that there is no fps lag.

 

[Ctuchik]

Firstly a couple of clarifications. Excal and Pryd are running exactly the same hardware, the two servers are identically specced with high end server boxes and network gear.
ToA will always be laggier than other zones because of the way it has been made. As it's all one very big zone (which is usually heavily populated), the server has to send your client a great deal of information, much more than other zones. This means that a latency problem which is undetectable in other areas can become a problem in ToA.
If the problem was within our network then every player in that zone would encounter it. This is not the case, there does appear to be a widespread problem but it is not by any means universal.
What I'd suggest you do is to download Pingplotter from http://www.pingplotter.com/downloads/pngplt_2.exe and let it run for about ten minutes. This will give you an idea of where in the routing the latency is occuring. All the pingplot graphs I've seen in RightNow reports have the large packetloss occuring outside our network. The one above shows normal levels of latency (40-50 ms) in our network but it was only run for a few seconds so isn't much of a guide to the situation over time.
If the problem is with a hub outside our network then the only thing to do is to contact your ISP and ask them to look into the routing issue. This is something that we cannot do for you as we are not your ISPs customers.

pingplotter isnt really helping much tho as its server lag not latency... i have green all over my lag'o'meter but still have as bas as 7+ second between press the button to something acually happening..

 

[IainC]

pingplotter isnt really helping much tho as its server lag not latency... i have green all over my lag'o'meter but still have as bas as 7+ second between press the button to something acually happening..

No but it rules out latency across your connection. We are investigating the issue and I'll keep you updated with the progress. Currently the zones seem to be absolutely fine which makes troubleshooting somewhat difficult. We'll test it again tonight at prime time and see what the difference is.

 

[Rayko]

No but it rules out latency across your connection. We are investigating the issue and I'll keep you updated with the progress. Currently the zones seem to be absolutely fine which makes troubleshooting somewhat difficult. We'll test it again tonight at prime time and see what the difference is.

thanks for your efforts, Requiel

 

[Nordanstahl]

Not hardware or internet connection related lag at all

My system specs are :

p4 2.4 800mghz FSB 1.5 gig dual channel ram
Nvidia Gforce FX 5950 ultra with 256mb GFX ram
10mb/s connection
running in classic mode with all eyecandy turned off,
ping Latency FPS all green.And still experiencing up
to 5 seconds lag in TOA zones so it is hardly anyones hardware
or ISP not working properly.
All Isp´s across Europe cannot have routing problems to the
gameserver at the same time so i guess it's the gameserver itself that is choking I.E serverlag.

 

[Mikal]

Strange. Is there another graphic motor on Excal ToA then? becuase I have no lag there.

I suggest you read the whole thread, it's exactly what we are complaining about, that there's no lag on excal, not even on hib/alb prydwen, but there's lots on mid prydwen.

and it can't be people's PC's that are too weak, as the game runs perfectly smooth, even in ToA zones. You can look around, move around, spelleffects plays nicely, performance meter is all green. BUT there's a delay on everything you do that has to go through the server, casting spells, using styles/abilities, talk to npc's, delving items, open the realm/relic/bonus window, talking on any channels.

 

[xxManiacxx]

I suggest you read the whole thread, it's exactly what we are complaining about, that there's no lag on excal, not even on hib/alb prydwen, but there's lots on mid prydwen.

and it can't be people's PC's that are too weak, as the game runs perfectly smooth, even in ToA zones. You can look around, move around, spelleffects plays nicely, performance meter is all green. BUT there's a delay on everything you do that has to go through the server, casting spells, using styles/abilities, talk to npc's, delving items, open the realm/relic/bonus window, talking on any channels.

And I suggest that you re-read what I wrote and who I was answering to and what I have been writing before.

Maybe you should read the whole thread. I have been arguing with the person who claimed it was fps lag.

 

[Coolan]

I had a 4800 before but it doesnt cut it in TOA. Some1 said dont listen to me. Now thats true. But read what i write. If u wanna improve performance that is. PEACE OUT!

im normaly a nice person but plz shut up if you dont know what the hell your on about my main pc is a athlon xp 2800barton 333fsb with 512mb ram ddr333 with a nvidia fx5700 128mb ddr2 runs perfectly fine in toa and can run 2acounts, my spare pc is a old athlon xp2100 266(palomino core) with 512mb ddr266 with a msi geforce 4ti4200 128mb ddr1 runs oh wait for it perfectly fine in toa, its not peoples machine specs which are causing the problem, so jsut shut the hell up.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

One thing else occured to me... Requiel said that since the zone is a LOT bigger, with more mobs and so... that the data send to the client is more, that's not entirely true if I'm right....
A while ago I've been googling on some mob that roamed Ashen (Jinni of the Dawn) and one of the first hits was a site on a Radar program, and that program filtered incoming packets straight from the Networking card and that program could only see things in a radius of ~6k around you since only those were send to the client, so this means that the data send to you isn't getting that much more then in any other random dungeon cramped with mobs (DF, Spindel), infact it most likely will be less, since yeah.. there are more mobs, but they are wider spread..

About those radar's btw requiel, I heard new frontiers has a better way of finding those that use radar? cos I get sick 'n tired also of a certain group of hibs that killed our group 4 times in an hour at different spots in Emain, and every time they ran STRAIGHT at us... not even a little to the side. The last kill even one of the healers in our group hid himself very thouroughly at fight, yet the hibs stayed around the bodies just waiting for him. They didn't do that before, they just ganked us and ran thru. That hardly could be coincidence... ahwell.. perhaps this also should be addressed in another thread

 

[Sheph]

Rightnowed it.
Oh and Sheph, i have system similar to yours and yes i run dual and i still have lag in toa. Come experience it sometimes.

Similar is not enuff. I have 2 similar systems set up now and they behave different. Highend motherboards seem to do big diff too.

 

[Sheph]

Don't listen to him. I used to run a Gforce 2 MX in TOA in the early hours without no lag what so ever. Ugly graphics though

If i go rvr with a GF2MX i will be kicked from group.

 

[Sheph]

Strange. Is there another graphic motor on Excal ToA then? becuase I have no lag there. and I know the difference between fps lag, ms lag, server lag and client lag.

And btw. yes Radeon 9700PRO is enough. Radeon 9100 is also enough. If you can´t make a game like DAOC float with a Radeon 9700PRO you really need to check you drivers.

And for AMD64. They work superb on every game. Only difference is that AMD64 requires high-end memories ie you can´t just go to your local dealer and get a noname memory module.

Tests has been done by me and by alot of others to see the difference between AMD64 and a regular 32bit CPU in Windows XP. As you probably know Win XP64bit is still in beta and atm running poorer then the 32bit version. We had up to 20% gain in performance just by switching out a 32bit CPU to a 64bit CPU. There is no game or program that we have tested that have worked slower/poorer on the 64bit CPU then it works on a regular 32bit CPU.

Although I doubt DAOC will ever support 64bit it still does run better then on a 32bit CPU.

Only time I get fps lag is when we are on a RR with 150+ mids and facing 100+ hibs and shrooms. Other then that there is no fps lag.

Better GFX card is more FPS. The 9800XT works nice in TOA. Lower cards makes some FPS drop.

 

[Sheph]

im normaly a nice person but plz shut up if you dont know what the hell your on about my main pc is a athlon xp 2800barton 333fsb with 512mb ram ddr333 with a nvidia fx5700 128mb ddr2 runs perfectly fine in toa and can run 2acounts, my spare pc is a old athlon xp2100 266(palomino core) with 512mb ddr266 with a msi geforce 4ti4200 128mb ddr1 runs oh wait for it perfectly fine in toa, its not peoples machine specs which are causing the problem, so jsut shut the hell up.

Easy now! I had your system spec before and experienced strange lag on excal. Sometimes it even timed me out. Sooooooooo...

 

[Sheph]

Strange. Is there another graphic motor on Excal ToA then? becuase I have no lag there. and I know the difference between fps lag, ms lag, server lag and client lag.

Lets hope so. Else people have to pay for better systems.

 

[Stinko]

If i go rvr with a GF2MX i will be kicked from group.

So? missing my point I think. You DON'T NEED a super high-end comp to run Toa without lag (fps/network/bla bla bla/yoyoyo) . I did it myself

 

[SkarIronfist]

I really don't see the issue here and why we argue among ourselves about pc specs.

We can all run around the froniters, si and our midgard zone quite happily. Which means we are communicating happily with the other servers in the Pyrdwen server cluster. We are experiencing no lag.

Yet when we get to the TOA server part of the cluster, we experience alot of lag. Given the number of people who have pproblems and have high end pcs we can really put the FPS lag to bed. You don't jump from 1 sec to 5 - 10 secs lag by zoning to Toa, without that indicating that that particular server is having problems, it makes no sense

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Sheph, please stay out of this thread from now on.
first of all.. you CANNOT expect everybody to buy the best of the best of the best there is on the pc front, I myself just don't have the money for that, and I think many others don't have it either.
Second of all.. what we are experiencing is not client-based. FPS lag doesn't make it impossible to cast... it just makes it impossible to see it. What we are having is you can see very well that your toon just isn't casting.
Third of all.... you are annoying and not to the point.

ohw and Why the hell 4 consequential (spelling?) posts? put the quotes in 1 post please.... (ohw.. no need to answer on that question)

 

[Vermillon]

[17:18:23] @@[BattleGroup] Ingafgrinn: "NCR is stickup toon "
..
..
..
[17:20:08] @@[BattleGroup] Lotraz: "Ethanol, we just left volcanus now."
[17:20:16] @@[BattleGroup] Lotraz: "guess you can make it, if you run real fast."


lol irl!

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Still haven't had a reply btw from GoA apart from this:

Response (CS) 07/05/2004 04:30 PM
Hello,

We have made an error, please do not take the previous message into consideration.

We will update you as soon as possible.


Regards,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support


Response (CS) 07/05/2004 04:22 PM
Bonjour,

Le souci est donc bien lié à la connexion internet. Reste à déterminer à quel endroit se situe le problème.
Avant toute chose (re)vérifiez que vous possédez le dernier driver pour votre modem et assurez vous d'avoir bien désactivé toutes les applications qui peuvent utiliser la bande passante : logiciels Internet du type messagerie (icq, msn,...), échange de fichier (kazaa, e-mule, e-donkey, ...), ...
Ensuite ré effectuez un ping plotter et attendez d'obtenir des déconnexions flagrantes (barres rouges).
Vous constaterez qu'en double cliquant sur les barres rouges (fenêtre "Round Trip" du bas), on réaffiche les données correspondantes à cette période dans la fenêtre principale.
Effectuez cette manipulation (que nous ne pouvons hélas faire nous même sur les fichiers en pièce jointe) sur plusieurs barres rouges et envoyez nous les captures écran pour que nous puissions les évaluer.


Cordialement,
----------------------------------
Support Client Dark Age of Camelot

but I guess that's a mistake... certainly since they post it's a mistake and I have no idea what it says..... I'm not that good in french

 

[Aremeriel]

I'm no expert in French (haven't spoken it much the last 8 years either), so I may be wrong in some here... Feel free to correct me those that know french better than I do..

They say it's the Internet Connection, but it remains to find out where the problem is (within the Internet).
You should however make sure you have the latest driver for your modem. You should also deactivate all chat programs and file sharing programs. Then they say something about using Ping Plotter (hmmm.. where have I heard that before?). And some guidance on how to double click on Round Trip (or something like that) to get correspondance at that moment in the main window.. And that you should take the info from the doubleclick and Round Trip thingy on several barre rogues (No idea what it is, but probably routers on the "way" from you to them) and send them so they can investigate..

I know it's not very accurate, but it's some at least.. And the best I can do at the moment...

 

[IainC]

Aremeriels translation is close enough. The Tech support team deal withall the language versions so its a simple mistake.
No-one has a reply from Goa yet because I have all the RightNow reports about this in my inbox. I'm talking to the technical guys and running tests with them. When we have an answer I'll reply to them all, it's too early yet to respond with any kind of meaningful answer.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Thanks Aremeriel for the translation and thanks requiel for the reason why it was so quiet on my rightnow
started to wonder already what was happening out there

 

[Sheph]

Sheph, please stay out of this thread from now on.
first of all.. you CANNOT expect everybody to buy the best of the best of the best there is on the pc front, I myself just don't have the money for that, and I think many others don't have it either.
Second of all.. what we are experiencing is not client-based. FPS lag doesn't make it impossible to cast... it just makes it impossible to see it. What we are having is you can see very well that your toon just isn't casting.
Third of all.... you are annoying and not to the point.

ohw and Why the hell 4 consequential (spelling?) posts? put the quotes in 1 post please.... (ohw.. no need to answer on that question)

The kind of lag you describe is the lag i got rid of by improving my system. My poor liddul warden didnt cast until seconds later and i was very sad!

The system i decribe is far from best of the best and is very cheap.

Ah... annoying well i got some mails from some other people reading the thread about what specs/settings they gonna get. So i fink ill stay annoying if it helps some people!