To Albions

[Filip]

i dont play any more ... but if any1 wanna listen to some old exprience's i have a few comments ...

1... listen to pin ... what he say about defence of alb power relic's is rigth ..

the power relic keep is the power relic keep most far away in the game ... try to run from Druim Cain to Hib power relic and then try to run from Snowdonia Border keep to Alb power relic keep ..

2. becuase of alb power relic keep is the hardest in game to defend and certainly vs hibs it is you need some simple guidlines about how to defend ... even a bad plan is good every1 follow it...
so i would suggest ... make it common knowledge that when you move out from snowdonia border keep to defend then you need at least 6+ FGA in the first wave ... if there is scroom army then forget to port inside .. the lag + scrooms will kill you for certain ... instead make range figth and try to stay alive untill alb reinforcements arrive... try to clear 1 door if possible ...

ppl who dont have a house with a snowdonia teleporter should FORGET to move to snowdonia ... they should suside and move to the approiate MG in HW to defend instead ...

3. The keep thing asha mentioned with assigning certain keeps to certian guilds/as's is good ... albs done it before and it was not as he say "informal" it was something agreed upon on GM board. there is many good things to say about this but mainly it give the players some responsiblity .... allso when other ppl want to help they know where to seach for the leaders of the defence/retake force

 

[Ilienwyn]

chinese-whispers ! I mean mad & fish are back, what more do you want?

And no I couldn't. I would kill ppl irl. I have no patience.

11 roxoring BF >>> the other 2.0 of alliance (except anyu) tbh imo idd

The truth is that HB alliance is so small to protect the rest of Albion from Aussie's spam.

Well, we don't have to worry about Aussie spam any longer

And anyu is not in alliance any more either


Bah, and was on for sooo little this weekend, didn't even have time to test levi with relic

 

[Marc]

wow, i just found out how to skip all the posts and i ended up at the last reply.

did i miss anything?

Yeah someone mentioned about a shield they bought dirt cheap, page 2 i think

 

[Meduza]

Yeah someone mentioned about a shield they bought dirt cheap, page 2 i think

heheheehehehehehehe


a bit harsh imo

 

[Asha]

Well, we don't have to worry about Aussie spam any longer

why is that?

And anyu is not in alliance any more either

so sad...

what's killing me is the attitude of: we can't do it so don't bother trying FOR 2 YEARS... No one knows if we can or can't defend them because we have never tried it.

kagato if the current state of armsmen can't stop you from soloing with it, nothing can
I should have let you borrow my reaver

 

[Crimson LoneWolf]

Question: Is it actually allowed to use IRC to inform others about rr's or anything else for that matter?

Someone told me it was against the CoC to use any form of communication outside of DAOC to inform others about events that are taking place in the game. That would also include voice chat, and other programs to keep in touch with the other players.

I have to admit, that what i would define as true rvr would be rvr without: spies, voice chat and programs like IRC. That would turn rvr into something bigger than what "rvr" on excal is at the moment.

 

[Chilly]

Nothing wrong with using irc for talking ABOUT rvr, but you have to be careful to say nothing specific, and say nothing about big events etc.. talking about RRs in progress on irc is strictly prohibited by the coc and is bannable if they can trace you.

 

[sibanac]

what's killing me is the attitude of: we can't do it so don't bother trying FOR 2 YEARS... No one knows if we can or can't defend them because we have never tried it.

Aye, haveing a permanent presence in HW like we did before TOA (kagato, the fellowship gang and the ocasional alb guild comming to say hi) does give us early warning, add to that the same reaction as the mids have shown (keep gets attacked and 200 mids show up before the doors are good and well down)
And we stand a good chance of defeating any RR or crashing the server

It is true our pow relic keep is the furthest to come and defend, but its also the longest walk for invaders

 

[Asha]

Nothing wrong with using irc for talking ABOUT rvr, but you have to be careful to say nothing specific, and say nothing about big events etc.. talking about RRs in progress on irc is strictly prohibited by the coc and is bannable if they can trace you.

I'm not being funny but I cannot find that anywhere in any EULA or CoC.

 

[tedStar]

I'm not being funny but I cannot find that anywhere in any EULA or CoC.

[edited] useless bla [/edited]

 

[Skilgannon]

I'm not being funny but I cannot find that anywhere in any EULA or CoC.

There isn't.

There is nothing from GOA that I can find, but this is Mythic's viewpoint:

We realize that we have a vague area in our policy concerning use of third party software and I wanted to come out, discuss and clarify this issue. There is some concern being voiced about the use of communication methods external to DAoC. These can be anything from Roger Wilco, to IRC, to the telephone. We currently do not have a written policy that addresses this directly, and the last thing we want to do is write policy that is not in the best interest of the majority of the population of Camelot, or write policy that is un-enforceable. The conundrum that we have is that we also do not want certain people to have an unfair advantage over other people who play the game. External communication devices can give this type of advantage. Here is what we have decided:

1) We will not write any policy specifically against using external communication devices.

2) As long as no other policy is broken (such as cross-teaming, spying, DAoC client hacking, etc…), then the use of external communication devices is acceptable.

3) We discourage the use of these types of devices, as we do feel that they give an advantage when used in RvR against people who are not using these types of devices. We feel that this violates the spirit of the game.

4) We will not support, in any way, the use of these types of devices. Please do not contact a CSR, or call technical support if you are having any problems.

So there you go. We realize that this is not the perfect answer, but we also realize that there is no perfect answer. We are just trying our best to be fair and realistic about these types of issues.

 

[Tay]

Question: Is it actually allowed to use IRC to inform others about rr's or anything else for that matter?

Someone told me it was against the CoC to use any form of communication outside of DAOC to inform others about events that are taking place in the game. That would also include voice chat, and other programs to keep in touch with the other players.

I have to admit, that what i would define as true rvr would be rvr without: spies, voice chat and programs like IRC. That would turn rvr into something bigger than what "rvr" on excal is at the moment.

CoC can only extend as far as DAOC nothing else, if somebody tries to tell you anything differant laugh at them. If GOA try to tell you anything differant laugh at them.

Having said all that if people feel the need to discuss DOACs things in IRC that relate to RR's etc then name and shame them, GOA cannot enforce anything outside of DAOC.

 

[sibanac]

CoC can only extend as far as DAOC nothing else, if somebody tries to tell you anything differant laugh at them. If GOA try to tell you anything differant laugh at them.

Having said all that if people feel the need to discuss DOACs things in IRC that relate to RR's etc then name and shame them, GOA cannot enforce anything outside of DAOC.

From GENERAL SUBSCRIPTION CONDITIONS

7 - Termination of your subscription
.......
- And more generally in the event of behaviour that GOA, at its entire discretion, judges harmful to its interests or to those of DAOC users.
 In the event of the suspension of your Player Account or in the event of termination of the account by GOA for one of the reasons stated above, you lose the right to access your Player Account and the data contained in it and you will not be entitled to any reimbursement, in whole or in part.

If GOA decides that you giving away info on irc about a RR is harmful to other players, they can ban your sweet arse when they damn well please.
actualy if they decide that slaping sameone whit a wet trout is harmfull they can ban you

 

[Asha]

Name and shame them? They are doing nothing wrong as long as they aren't spying.

 

[Pin]

GOA reserves the right (at any time and without prior notice) to reduce access to or block an account temporarily or definitively if the user has not respected this Charter, has encouraged another user not to respect the Charter or has caused harm to the user community.

7 - Termination of your subscription
[snip]
GOA reserves the right to temporarily suspend or definitively terminate your subscription, effective immediately, in the event of:
[snip]
- And more generally in the event of behaviour that GOA, at its entire discretion, judges harmful to its interests or to those of DAOC users.

If they deem that someone posting on a discussion board, or talking on IRC, or absolutely anything else has "caused harm to the user community", they can close your account (whether they will or not is a different matter).

 

[Asha]

There is nothing in the (GOA) charter about irc, email, mobile phones, sitting next to someone who isn't logged in at a cafe so long as it's not cross-realm spying. GOA would never ban or suspend an account for people on IRC telling other realmmates that something is up. That is just ridiculous and there is nothing to support that anywhere, no matter how many out of context snips you take from the EULA or CoC.

For a start they cannot enforce it.

And yes they state that they have total authority overy every account and can terminate any account if they decide to at any moment. They could decide that saying nee to another player is abuse and ban an account tomorrow. It's about as likely as them banning someone for alerting a realmmate in irc. This is getting ridiculous.

As usual instead of actually doing anything people would rather bicker about non-sense. Going by Mythics info which is actually ABOUT irc/email/telephones, only point 3 applies:

3) We discourage the use of these types of devices, as we do feel that they give an advantage when used in RvR against people who are not using these types of devices. We feel that this violates the spirit of the game.

Mids and Hibs both use IRC for exactly this purpose. I have seen them. That does not mean that we have to, but it does mean that we would have no "advantage" over them in doing so.

 

[Pin]

There is nothing specifically in the EULA or CoC about spying, or leeching, or a dozen other things that people have their accounts suspended for. Yet these are all punished under these "out of context snips" (I fail to see how anyone with half a brain could decide they are out of context - they relate directly to sanctions on your account due to customer actions).
All that matters is if the community is deemed (by GOA) to be adversely affected by actions of a user, he could lose his account.

For a start they cannot enforce it.

Of course they can enforce it - they can do what they like.
What you mean is "they cannot police it" - but that does not matter, receiving reports from the community is plenty.


And nobody is claiming that all external communication would be in violation of the CoC/EULA, but some is.

 

[Tay]

From GENERAL SUBSCRIPTION CONDITIONS

7 - Termination of your subscription
.......
- And more generally in the event of behaviour that GOA, at its entire discretion, judges harmful to its interests or to those of DAOC users.
In the event of the suspension of your Player Account or in the event of termination of the account by GOA for one of the reasons stated above, you lose the right to access your Player Account and the data contained in it and you will not be entitled to any reimbursement, in whole or in part.

If GOA decides that you giving away info on irc about a RR is harmful to other players, they can ban your sweet arse when they damn well please.
actualy if they decide that slaping sameone whit a wet trout is harmfull they can ban you

I take it that you beleive everything you read in terms and conditions?.

There are some things you simply cannot "contract out", companies beleive that because they have put it in black and white that they have the god given right to deny access to resources.

I'll let somebody more familiar with the law discuss the legalities of this.

 

[Tay]

Name and shame them? They are doing nothing wrong as long as they aren't spying.

I beleive this could be catagorised as unsportsmanly.

 

[Tay]

There is nothing in the (GOA) charter about irc, email, mobile phones, sitting next to someone who isn't logged in at a cafe so long as it's not cross-realm spying. GOA would never ban or suspend an account for people on IRC telling other realmmates that something is up. That is just ridiculous and there is nothing to support that anywhere, no matter how many out of context snips you take from the EULA or CoC.

For a start they cannot enforce it.

And yes they state that they have total authority overy every account and can terminate any account if they decide to at any moment. They could decide that saying nee to another player is abuse and ban an account tomorrow. It's about as likely as them banning someone for alerting a realmmate in irc. This is getting ridiculous.

As usual instead of actually doing anything people would rather bicker about non-sense. Going by Mythics info which is actually ABOUT irc/email/telephones, only point 3 applies:

3) We discourage the use of these types of devices, as we do feel that they give an advantage when used in RvR against people who are not using these types of devices. We feel that this violates the spirit of the game.

Mids and Hibs both use IRC for exactly this purpose. I have seen them. That does not mean that we have to, but it does mean that we would have no "advantage" over them in doing so.

Actually they can enforce it, they can ban you, however...would they be legal in doing so? I doubt it very much unless they had compelling evidence, it would have to be somebodies considered opinion that person x has caused the game to be unplayable or unworthy of putting time into or, has devalued the game somehow.

I'm not going to argue that case I am not legally minded, I do however have a pretty good understanding of my rights, those are the same rights I do not give up whilst playing a game, the same rights I will vigorously defend if I beleive that I have been done wrong.

In the same breath I dont spy and give things away that are happening in game, perhaps I would feel differant if I were a spy, perhaps I would feel differant if I knew a spy, people ruin the gaming experience for me everyday, people shout on the portal "blah blah for RR cg", it would seem that perhaps somebody spilt the beans on the last alb relic raid, I wasted considerably time on that.

Personally I would like to see chars stripped from the game that batently cross realm spy, that is my opinion, it is not based in any legal grounds whatsoever.

I have yet to see any legal case where somebody has been sued based on the loss of time invested in to, say a char for example.

I have a fantastic amount of time invested in this game for somebody to attempt to remove that for something that happened outside the game would be interesting.

I suspect it'll happen in the US first tho, litigation is *their* strong area.

 

[Asha]

There is nothing specifically in the EULA or CoC about spying, or leeching, or a dozen other things that people have their accounts suspended for.

Leeching is harrassment - which is addressed.
Spying is addressed as harming the community.

Yet these are all punished under these "out of context snips" (I fail to see how anyone with half a brain could decide they are out of context - they relate directly to sanctions on your account due to customer actions).

All that matters is if the community is deemed (by GOA) to be adversely affected by actions of a user, he could lose his account.

Which they NEVER have in any way, shape or form for over two years despite the fact that it goes on on a daily basis. Even my half a brain cell can comprehend that GOA have never attempted to address realmmates talking on IRC, boards, etc. Mythic's statement says it all. It is not considered to be adversely effecting the community. It is out of context because it does not apply.

Of course they can enforce it - they can do what they like.

What you mean is "they cannot police it" - but that does not matter, receiving reports from the community is plenty.

I know what I mean and I said it. In order to enforce something you have to police it. They cannot enforce something they cannot police. Receiving reports from the community about IRC activities? Please. They will never ban someone based on IRC logs.

And nobody is claiming that all external communication would be in violation of the CoC/EULA, but some is.

Chilly stated that what I preposed was a violation of the CoC. It is not, according to all that I can find. That is all I am saying. There is nothing wrong with realmmates communicating about on-going events outside of the game.

 

[Gordonax]

Actually they can enforce it, they can ban you, however...would they be legal in doing so? I doubt it very much unless they had compelling evidence, it would have to be somebodies considered opinion that person x has caused the game to be unplayable or unworthy of putting time into or, has devalued the game somehow.

They don't need any "evidence" at all. When supplying a service, as long as termination of that service is within the terms of the contract between customer and supplier, either has the right to terminate. The only way this contract would be invalid is if the terms of it violated either parties other legal rights: so, for example, you could deny a service to someone on the basis of their race (at least in the UK).
In this case because there's no legal right to this form of service. There *are* services that you can't be refused access to (for example, gas or electricty in the UK), but DAoC isn't one of them
The only other caveat is that the conditions for termination of a contract have to be clear to both parties. In this case, I'd say they are: it's basically if you do anything which Goa believes is damaging to either themselves or the DAoC community. Would this hold up in court? Probably. One thing to note, is that under French law, serious misconduct from one party can warrant termination by the other party, even when the contract is for a fixed term. This alone would probably cover most griefing activities.

 

[Kagato]

blimey are you lot still argueing?



Bickering wont get the relics back or help defend them if we do get them back.

If we all put as much energy and research into our raid planning and training as we do into our quoting and contradicting we'd have alot more success in this realm.

kagato if the current state of armsmen can't stop you from soloing with it, nothing can
I should have let you borrow my reaver

Armsman only fail to be as good as mercs in groups, you'd be suprised how well we can do alone, is just that no other Armsman are willing to try. And thanks but you look better with the whip :wub:

 

[Bracken]

you'd be suprised how well we can do alone, is just that no other Armsman are willing to try.

Pffft I tried but was useless without a buffbot



(And no comments about me being useless with one either... )

 

[gunner440]

Armsman only fail to be as good as mercs in groups, you'd be suprised how well we can do alone, is just that no other Armsman are willing to try.

rofl i know what armsmen can do alone

in fact armsmen are still classed as "tanks" and tanks generally do well 1v1

its not a miracle or anything

 

[Ilienwyn]

why is that?

Check his new guild (especially with sorc)

 

[Asha]

(And no comments about me being useless with one either... )

damn!

jk


hmm aussie and konah
dreams idd

 

[Tay]

They don't need any "evidence" at all. When supplying a service, as long as termination of that service is within the terms of the contract between customer and supplier, either has the right to terminate. The only way this contract would be invalid is if the terms of it violated either parties other legal rights: so, for example, you could deny a service to someone on the basis of their race (at least in the UK).
In this case because there's no legal right to this form of service. There *are* services that you can't be refused access to (for example, gas or electricty in the UK), but DAoC isn't one of them
The only other caveat is that the conditions for termination of a contract have to be clear to both parties. In this case, I'd say they are: it's basically if you do anything which Goa believes is damaging to either themselves or the DAoC community. Would this hold up in court? Probably. One thing to note, is that under French law, serious misconduct from one party can warrant termination by the other party, even when the contract is for a fixed term. This alone would probably cover most griefing activities.

Sounds fair to a point, however, "serious misconduct" works both ways I presume? therefore I could then have grounds if I was wrongly accused of something by GOA, even with what you have said I do not beleive that they can entirely indemnify themselves simply by saying "what we say goes", they may dictate the CoC but I pay them for a service they can deny they have any obligation to provide that however my money has been fine until now...

I think these are untested waters, as stated Law is not my area, but I would liek to know where I stand with the hundred of hours I have invested and how is GOA protecting that investment for example.

One thing I was angling towards was GOA proving that such and such actually did this in IRC and this person is such and such in game...hence if I was fasly accused and had my account deleted.

 

[wittor]

oh pls

 

[Meduza]

perma ban all archers, and all rr8+ ppl... then we have no wajners and no radar users :]