To Albions

[Flimgoblin]

don't think we've had any Fellowship relic raids yet
(can't remember if Methos ever led one or if he's just been leading the Fellowship part of it - vaguely remember running through the snow in odins gate stuck to Methos as a fresh faced level 30 Mercenary just as HG had joined the fellowship but I think that was a herbal/lac production - was the raid that got us the strength relics for a few months until Killgorde's raid I recall)

but we do more than just "defend the frontier". We don't roam emain as an alliance but we've been taking enemy keeps and setting corpse summoners up for years.

Maybe not that much lately with everyone mired in ToA and the general morale being low, but we do know where Visur is and how to use rams.

 

[Belomar]

Ah, Asha is back to stalking me. How refreshing.

And a word or two about GoL. They have always always been the people in Alb who do the dirty work. I mean... back to the early days there was always a GoL person watching relics, mending doors, etc.

I never attacked GoL, other than to point out to Zoyster that his criticism on other guilds was also true about his own guild.

Numbers AND Co-ordination.

Yes, that's what I said, didn't I? :touch:

Saying an alliance only do realm defense isn't a diss, it's a statement. Do they organise relic raids?

Read what he said again. He said The Fellowship does not qualify as a RvR alliance because they only do realm defense. Now that is bullshit, and none of your nitpicking will change that.

It seems as if your definition of an RvR alliance is someone that goes on the offensive and organizes relic raids. My definition of an RvR alliance include both realm offense and realm defense, both of which both The Fellowship and the SS alliances have done in abundance (the joint SS/Fellowship alliance raids kept all of Mid in chaos not long ago on a weekly basis, almost to the point that they stopped coming and instead just camped AMG).

 

[Asha]

Belo, your ego never fails to surprize and amaze me. Posting a reply on FH is now stalking ^^ Nice to know it! I have far more important ppl to stalk (mad:touch: )

We disagree about the definition of an RvR guild, no biggie. I just felt the need to support GoL because I think alot of people give them a bad rap as rvr elitist, which they aren't, Zoy included. You obvously didn't read the rest of my post or totally missed my point on purpose. If you wanna pull out phrases out of context, then sorry you can go back to stalking yourself. It's too early Monday morning here for such crap.

 

[Belomar]

We disagree about the definition of an RvR guild, no biggie.

I guess you mean "RvR alliance" here, and yes, I guess we can agree to disagree. I still think it is unfair to say that an alliance is not an RvR alliance if it does not plan relic raids, especially in light of the amount of work put in by me, Fingoniel, and Methos in the past.

I just felt the need to support GoL because I think alot of people give them a bad rap as rvr elitist, which they aren't, Zoy included. You obvously didn't read the rest of my post or totally missed my point on purpose. If you wanna pull out phrases out of context, then sorry you can go back to stalking yourself.

What phrase did I pull out of context, again? I honestly can't find it. I'll be the last to call Zoyster, the whole of GoL, or GoL's alliance RvR elitists (which previous attacks on Zoyster on these forums have shown), but I will react if my guild or alliance is criticized in an unfair manner.

 

[Lethul]

Those two alliances hold the groups that do RvR as FG on a daily basis, except AD (who have tinyheals so they can't be trusted!)

how cuuuuuuuute, i can be trusted :wub:

 

[Gordonax]

We disagree about the definition of an RvR guild, no biggie. I just felt the need to support GoL because I think alot of people give them a bad rap as rvr elitist, which they aren't, Zoy included.

I certainly wouldn't say GoL are rvr elitists. Sure, there are some people in GoL that are, how shall I put it, "a bit intense" about the purity of 1fg only, but that doesn't mean everyone in the guild is.

 

[Ame]

Pretty easy to spot a relic raid, if your guild claims a guard in the albion frontier.. when one of the .... knights dies, that means the relic keep is under attack..

Think all the major alliances should have one of the guilds in it owning one of the keeps in the albion frontier, so it is easier to see and get the word out when theres a relic raid about.

 

[Kagato]

Meduza has got a point, albeit put in a rather gay way. If some "random warder" like me decides to organise a relic raid, do you really see guilds like GoL, FC, AD turning up? No, it wont happen.

I remember awhile back quite a considerable zerg turning out for a sudden relic raid led by a paladin who wasn't even 50 yet lol. It did not succeed due to the uber guards (they were new and under estimated at the time) but it was still a half decent raid.

 

[Kagato]

The only real problem with the relic defense (ignoring wether we did or did not deserve it, as far as im concerned, it was ours now lets protect it) was lack of direction.

We had contradicting cg's and bg's up working to cross purposes, and for quite a long time no one could even decide if it was mids or hibs attacking the relics, yes there was people saying mids were attacking the relics. Which just makes matters worse, we did have the numbers to defend, you can't out-zerg albion, but when you have different people telling the zerg to head to emain, odins, snowdonia, hmg and hotc for some daft reason then you get the old headless chicken problem.

If all albs headed to HMG we could of stopped them, if all albs headed to the hib frontier and cut them off from their relic keep, we could of stopped them, even with the mids camping atk.

I would suggest people stop bickering about which guilds and alliances are not doing their bit and instead put the energy into coming up with some solutions and plans for dealing with this kind of situration.

 

[Asha]

Long-arsed Asha Post™ inc:



TBH I think that it would be cool to have power relics instead of strgth. At least til 1.69... Think of it... hibs hitting for less, healing for less... us healing for more. Would be much better than strgh

And it isn't impossible to defend if you set up right.... if you plan ahead... right? Unless they alarmclock raid, but hibs don't do it much.

Almost everyone has lvl 50 alts right? Maybe park some key alts in the relic keep stocked up with trebs ready to go? Go in waves too, so that if there is a wipe, there is another wave of alts with trebs there. If as much planning was put into keeping the power relics as getting them, it could work. Maybe that can't be done til more people finish with TOA...

And about big alliances. This has never made sense to me. Why is it so hard to see Zoy or some GoL and say: tell your alliance. Does /who light not work? The problem isn't that people are in more than one alliance, it's that people don't respond. Easy way to change that is to have people in every guild whose job it is to rally their people. You will never fit ALL guilds in an alliance anyhow.

Another idea. An irc channel for albs only verified by auth. Sole purpose to spam if there was a relic attempt. Also you could spam if your claimed keep was being attacked. Not for chatting at all - ever. This means that if you see that channel has activity then you know it's important to read it. This would mean that you don't have to read loads of crap all day. Any alb could join because if he pranked, then he would not be allowed back. Spies no worry because we would be defending not attacking. Really we should do this it solves the problem of too many cgs and etc.

Another idea. Assign keeps to guilds by their means. If a guild/alliance has a shit load of BP, let them claim. Arrange for certain alliances to be responsible for certain keeps. I know this has been done informally in the past, but for example if HB/GoL/BF were in charge of 2 keeps and they knew they had to defend/retake those keeps before doing TOA/RvR then there is some sense to it. If a guild shows they can't keep up their keep then move it to another guild/alliance. This would mean that the same people wouldn't feel the burden so hard.

Don't fight about who is/isn't an RvR guild. Albion's been down too long, we need to get some relics and have some pride in our keeps

I think frost is right we need to have plans for defending before we bother taking a relic. I hope it's power ones tho!

 

[Bracken]

TBH I think that it would be cool to have power relics instead of strgth. At least til 1.69... Think of it... hibs hitting for less, healing for less... us healing for more. Would be much better than strgh

Hmm I agree with Asha... power relics are more desirable than strength at the moment and could be defended with proper organisation.

It's just on this occasion the way we got the relic was so shameful that there was little inclination by many to stop the hibs reclaiming it.

 

[Pin]

108 Hibs on Myrrdin (out of maybe 400 total).
24 Albs in Snowdonia/Pennines/Hadrian's combined (out of maybe 1000 total).

Ignoring the "I don't want to defend a relic Alb didn't earn" comments, at what point did Alb lose the relic?

Well, time from first guard kill to "relic: neutral" was 6 minutes... Impossible to build any defense of Myrrdin on that much notice.
11 minutes and it was through hmg... Immediate suicide (from wherever) and minstrel speed would get you to hmg in ~8 minutes - impossible to build enough of a defense there to stop the hib charge.

Ergo, it makes no difference who did and didn't react to guard spam, or who led, listened or bickered in any CGs. It was too late and the result was inevitable.

Seeing guard death-spam (and being unable to log in a defense at the keep) and 'going to defend' is useless.
GoL retaking keeps and holding Benowyc after the relic was taken? Does nothing.
SS holding Sursbrooke and retaking each time it's lost for the last 6 months? Does nothing.
Bickering amongst retards claiming his guild/alliance is better at 'relic defense' than another one is stupid. Nobody was defending anything adequately.
Taking, re-taking, claiming keeps means little. Fewer guards at the relic keep? Who cares, they're insta-killed by shrooms. Even if there weren't exploitamists, with that many people guards can be dealt with easily. Doors dropped by ~30 FF tanks, etc...
The only way you are going to stop a serious relic raid on Myrrdin is a) knowing about it enough in advance, and b) having enough people within range.

This means (short of having spies) that you need a constant Alb RvR force in (at least) Hadrian's Wall. i.e. 25% of Alb RvR (minimum) needs to happen there. Otherwise you won't see the enemy in time.

To my knowledge, after the keeps were re-taken there was basically nobody in the Alb frontier. No force close enough to react and kill them at Myrrdin. No force to stop them from attacking Myrrdin in the first place. No force to contain them (or majority) in HW. Not even enough people watch activities.

Why not? General attitude to playing, from everybody. Log on, want something to do. Habit says go where the action has been in the past - RPs in Emain - Goodbye relics.

You can't change a deeply-engrained habit such as this overnight (2 years without a power relic - nobody really knows what it takes to defend. Excalibur is MUCH easier, or even possible, to mount a suicide defense at. Myrrdin is not).
Once you have something to defend it's too late to change these habits - they need to be broken before we take a power relic. The habit needs to be RvR in the Alb frontier - at least a large portion.

Unfortunately, people want 'action' and it would take months before enough of the engrained 'action' moves into the Albion frontier to make it the default choise for enough people.

Only when there's 50+ Albs in HW/Pennines at all times will it be worthwhile holding a relic at Myrrdin - and that won't happen on Excalibur with the current population (all realms).
But of course... None of this matters, because NF is around the corner, right?

Well, I just hope that from DAY 1 of New Frontiers, the default location for the Albion RvR population will be the zones where the population is needed for defense.

 

[Aadia]

Almost everyone has lvl 50 alts right? Maybe park some key alts in the relic keep stocked up with trebs ready to go? Go in waves too, so that if there is a wipe, there is another wave of alts with trebs there. If as much planning was put into keeping the power relics as getting them, it could work. Maybe that can't be done til more people finish with TOA...

Didn't they change that in a patch that you can't be logged inside a keep or relic keep? Or did i read wrong a long time ago?

 

[Asha]

I think you can log out there and back in so long as it's not any damage.

"- Players who attempt to log in near a frontier keep or relic keep that is "under attack" or owned by an enemy realm will now be moved to a "safe point". "Under attack" is defined as when the doors are actively taking damage or are completely broken open. The safe point for attackers is the portal keep of the enemy frontier they are in. The safe point for defenders is the border keep with the portal pad of the frontier they are defending."

So no, you couldn't do a second wave of trebs at all but you could easily log in before Hibs reach there imo. If you have a good early warning system. Since guards being pulled isn't "under attack" but doors is, you would have to move asap.

 

[Kagato]

Im not sure if that counts for relic keeps as well, but I would imagine so, the alternative is to have alts logged at Snowdonia with trebs ready to go instead, but you will still need to form groups that stand a chance of getting inside (sos almost essential) and deploying trebs and gt's fast enough to slow them down.

Personally I think albs are better at melee groups then casters group anyway though im sure plenty will disagree with me, the main point of the power relics really is simply to bring down the damage level of hibs which in itself is a worthy cause.

However I think Myrddin is indefendable until NF.

<posted before Asha's quick reply>

 

[Asha]

it's not whether albs are good at melee or casters. it doesn't matter.
atm hibs have 20% dmg bonus yes? on top of that they get a healing bonus.

if you remove both those things, albs are stronger whether melee or caster
and there isn't pure melee groups anyhow, all have 3-4 casters inc clerics.

looking at the maps I don't see THAT much difference in getting to Power relic keep.
Just suicide, /release house, port Snow, get haste and go.
It's slightly longer to run but not THAT much...
I think we just bought into this "we can't defend power relics" because we didn't have them in 2 years. If we made an effort, we could defend them.
Also, this is a nasty tictac but it always backfires on us so ......
We could just mob the zone til it crashes :x
The true power of Albion!

 

[Crimson LoneWolf]

wow, i just found out how to skip all the posts and i ended up at the last reply.

did i miss anything?

 

[Larik]

looking at the maps I don't see THAT much difference in getting to Power relic keep.
Just suicide, /release house, port Snow, get haste and go.
It's slightly longer to run but not THAT much...
I think we just bought into this "we can't defend power relics" because we didn't have them in 2 years. If we made an effort, we could defend them.
Also, this is a nasty tictac but it always backfires on us so ......
We could just mob the zone til it crashes :x
The true power of Albion!

Distance is really the main reason there - HW was normally pretty much empty and is now even more so since toa came out. It's not hard to get a zerg through there and across the corner of the Pennines to Snowdonia without being seen. Compare that to the difficulty of getting a zerg through emain unnoticed....

 

[Asha]

I guarentee if we got power relics, there would be rvr in hw

 

[Tay]

mmm at the moment we got nothing to defend. We should be on the offensive permanently.

HAving only 1 relic that we didnt earn ourselves, I suppose put people off camping / RvRing HW, So lets get all 6

I agree, we got nothing to lose, lets get all 6 or get some good big time rvr going at least.

 

[Kagato]

I guarentee if we got power relics, there would be rvr in hw

There is now, good solo action! leave it that way witch !

 

[Asha]

you're in fc, you're leet now remember, no soloing.

 

[Belomar]

Another idea. An irc channel for albs only verified by auth. Sole purpose to spam if there was a relic attempt.

Not to shoot down everything you propose, but I personally detest relic raid blabbing on IRC and I wouldn't condone an IRC channel specifically for this purpose.

 

[Clipse]

IF we got the relics, then kept Alb frontiers rock solid. Hibbs n midds cant ever get DF, and intuitivley People will RvR in HW.

 

[Asha]

Not to shoot down everything you propose, but I personally detest relic raid blabbing on IRC and I wouldn't condone an IRC channel specifically for this purpose.

oh come on, that is pushing the roleplaying a bit far (I don't mean that as an insult)
next you'll say ppl can't plan rrs outside game or use forums to do so

There is nothing wrong with using an irc channel to alert ppl who are doing something else. If we set up rules like that then there is 0 point to getting the relics anyhow. We're putting ourselves in a box that no one else uses. Maybe it feels nice to say we're better than them, but I would rather have relics for first time in months(str) or years (pwr).

 

[Kagato]

you're in fc, you're leet now remember, no soloing.

Do they sell any patches so I can wean myself of soloing slowely ?

 

[Lac Desariel]

(the "bla bla bla" is not a flame etc, just that we dont need to repost all that)

Here comes the flame:

When was this ?!? 2 years ago, when ppl werent l33t g33ks ? I bet this wasnt within this last year!!!

ask you self these questions.. have you made RR plans?
Have you PM GM's to see if they are intreseted?
Have you spoken to RR leaders known by people? like Herbal, Myelf when im on (altho it is limited times now) or methos?

ive always time to go over plans talk to people who need to be talked to i dont need to be in game for that as i have a network of email addys for this. You wanna RR get in touch and do it, but finding excuses rates up there with what Zoyster said, you beliving we cant so you dont

 

[Meduza]

ask you self these questions.. have you made RR plans?
Have you PM GM's to see if they are intreseted?
Have you spoken to RR leaders known by people? like Herbal, Myelf when im on (altho it is limited times now) or methos?

ive always time to go over plans talk to people who need to be talked to i dont need to be in game for that as i have a network of email addys for this. You wanna RR get in touch and do it, but finding excuses rates up there with what Zoyster said, you beliving we cant so you dont

U didnt answer my question! When was this ?

Guess I was right that it was more than 1 (maybe even 2) years ago...

And no, FYI, I have never planned a relic raid, I dont got the skills, time nor brain capacity to do so... Hell, I dont even know what chars do what (the Tank Door Ram was actually new to me - I guess its one of those toa skills that "wouldnt change rvr at all")... And being "The Meduza" dont exactly gives me the support I needed for such a thing, hehehe

 

[Z^^]

I really would see albs hanging on to power relics, but I myself wasn't playing the night, and you go on and on about alliances and guilds and who cares


it really takes nothing to get to snowdonia if you wanna keep the relics
1 suicide then ride or port but in albion there are no respect for the relics or something...

 

[Flimgoblin]

it really takes nothing to get to snowdonia if you wanna keep the relics
1 suicide then ride or port but in albion there are no respect for the relics or something...

it's more than nothing - unless everyone has a speedbot waiting at snowdonia for them... and can sos past the 10000 shrooms clogging both entrances to the relic keep....

if we got those relics ourselves I'd probably be spending a lot of time in HW but we didn't so I'm not gonna bother.