Threads about freeshards

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fl3a

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hello,
due to the deletion of both threads about lpp i50 video we started to wonder. why exactly is it, that the first thread was allowed to live for like a week, but upon posting a link to it on the rvr boards both threads were instantly deleted?
asking around, i heard that tilda had told fremen that the fh mods try to promote goa coc. that might be great, but fh has had ads for daoc radar, hows that promoting the coc? furthermore, freeshards are not illegal nor are they against the coc set up by both goa and mythic.
we are not asking to get the threads restored, just wondering what is the reason behind their deletion (and warning fh members for mentioning freeshards).
 

Watchh

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i think Mythic stated they approve the hosting of Freeshards and were even interested in the idea's some of those Freeshards used, Mythic already implemented several idea's from freeshards to live servers ... for instance controlable mounts, they've also seen what mistakes not to make ... like instanced PvP wich kills the general population in the actual RvR zone.
 

Konah

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woo daoc's first "underground" rvr video. it did kinda make you wonder why we pay to play this game tbh...
 

Ctuchik

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fl3a said:
hello,
due to the deletion of both threads about lpp i50 video we started to wonder. why exactly is it, that the first thread was allowed to live for like a week, but upon posting a link to it on the rvr boards both threads were instantly deleted?
asking around, i heard that tilda had told fremen that the fh mods try to promote goa coc. that might be great, but fh has had ads for daoc radar, hows that promoting the coc? furthermore, freeshards are not illegal nor are they against the coc set up by both goa and mythic.
we are not asking to get the threads restored, just wondering what is the reason behind their deletion (and warning fh members for mentioning freeshards).


probably because any possible new player thats browsing this board wont go there insted of helping GOA make money (wich i can understand, more money to GOA means longer upkeep untill the inevitable)
 

Ctuchik

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Konah said:
woo daoc's first "underground" rvr video. it did kinda make you wonder why we pay to play this game tbh...


no admins to ban ur arse when they loose a duel?

seen it happen on every freeshard forum ive read. :)
 

IainC

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Watchh said:
i think Mythic stated they approve the hosting of Freeshards and were even interested in the idea's some of those Freeshards used, Mythic already implemented several idea's from freeshards to live servers ... for instance controlable mounts, they've also seen what mistakes not to make ... like instanced PvP wich kills the general population in the actual RvR zone.
You think wrong. Anyone running a freeshard is stealing Mythic's IP from them. The EULA also specifically forbids any reverse engineering, or creation of derivative works. A freeshard is most certainly a 'derivative work' as well as being in violation of several of the other prohibited actions mentioned below and also of copyright law.

EULA said:
This EUALA grants you the non-exclusive, revocable rights to access and use the System, to exchange, to download from, and to access and use Game Content and User Content exclusively via an authorized, fully paid Account, for purposes permitted by, and in a manner consistent with, the terms and conditions of this Agreement. Any and all rights not specifically and expressly granted by Mythic herein are reserved, and no license, permission or right of access or use not granted expressly herein shall be implied. Specifically, but without limiting the generality of the foregoing reservation, except as expressly permitted by the EUALA then in effect, you may not copy, distribute, rent, lease, loan, modify or create derivative works, adapt, translate, perform, display, sublicense or transfer any information accessible through the System, including without limitation, any part of the Game Content or User Content, or any item, object, or character associated with your Account, or your rights to access and/or use the System. You may not reverse engineer, disassemble or decompile, or otherwise reverse engineer or attempt to reverse engineer or derive code from any information accessible through the System (including, without limitation, data packets transmitted to and from the System over the Internet), or analyze, decipher, "sniff," derive code from, or attempt to analyze, decipher, "sniff," or derive code from any packet stream transmitted to or from the System, whether encrypted or not, or permit any third party to do any of the same, and you hereby expressly waive any legal rights you may have to do so.



Freeshards are not legal in any way and accessing or running one is a breach of the CoC.
 

Dallas

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Freeshards are legal, wether you choose to ban someone of goa/mythics server because they play on freeshards, is something entirely different, you are not breaking the law because you are playing on one, nor are you breaking it by hosting one.
 
X

xGenocidex

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Dallas said:
Freeshards are legal, wether you choose to ban someone of goa/mythics server because they play on freeshards, is something entirely different, you are not breaking the law because you are playing on one, nor are you breaking it by hosting one.




This is true :p aslong as they don't charge cash for it its not against teh law i think :eek: main word being "think" before someone jumps on me with a nerfbat
 

Dallas

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well, would you say its fair, if you buy lets say a mercedes, ur only allowed to drive on mercedes approved roads?

If i buy a daoc box, i can do whatever i want with it, i could use it as a spoon, or build a chair out of daoc cd's and boxes, same with the software, i could use that to test zip compression sizes..

I got a pm from FH admins to remove the stuff about shards in my sig, freedom of speech eh :)
 

IainC

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Dallas said:
well, would you say its fair, if you buy lets say a mercedes, ur only allowed to drive on mercedes approved roads?

If i buy a daoc box, i can do whatever i want with it, i could use it as a spoon, or build a chair out of daoc cd's and boxes, same with the software, i could use that to test zip compression sizes..

I got a pm from FH admins to remove the stuff about shards in my sig, freedom of speech eh :)
Wrong. You do own the physical media and the packaging and may dispose of it as you wish. You absolutely don't own the software or any rights to it beyond those expressly laid out in the EULA.
 

griralith

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its purely a money issue from goa/mythics side... afraid to loose more of a already fast shrinking playerbase aka subs each month....
 

fl3a

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Requiel said:
eula quote

ok, i wont try to convince you that i understand all the legal talk in it, but what it says is basically 'modding the client and finding out how it works is against the eula'. you do not mod your client to play on a freeshard. the client remains the same for both the server and player, but what is different is the database. could you give me a passage of text where it says that using a different database for an unmodified client is not allowed?
 

Edlina

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Dallas said:
Freeshards are legal, wether you choose to ban someone of goa/mythics server because they play on freeshards, is something entirely different, you are not breaking the law because you are playing on one, nor are you breaking it by hosting one.

Unfortunately for you that's completely wrong, it's neither legal to operate, nor to play on a freeshard server, you're hosting/using content and the game as produced and copyrighted by mythic, which includes the option to run the game on servers or not, therefore running and/or playing on a freeshard server is infact in breach with copyright laws, much in the same way distributing music or movies, or burning a game to cd's not purely for personal use is.

Mythic, and potentially partners such as goa, have the sole right to run the game on live servers, like it or not, playing on freeshards is breaking the law.

It's not about modding the client, it's about using the game on non official servers, which is enough to make it illegal.
 

IainC

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fl3a said:
ok, i wont try to convince you that i understand all the legal talk in it, but what it says is basically 'modding the client and finding out how it works is against the eula'. you do not mod your client to play on a freeshard. the client remains the same for both the server and player, but what is different is the database. could you give me a passage of text where it says that using a different database for an unmodified client is not allowed?
Firstly you are modifying the client, otherwise you would be connecting to the official servers. You must at the very least have a different login.dat file which is a qualitative modification.
The passage you are looking for is the very first sentence of the passage I quoted above (bold emphasis mine). The phrase 'The System' is defined as the official servers earlier in the EULA.

EULA said:
This EUALA grants you the non-exclusive, revocable rights to access and use the System, to exchange, to download from, and to access and use Game Content and User Content exclusively via an authorized, fully paid Account, for purposes permitted by, and in a manner consistent with, the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

On top of all of that, anyone running a DAoC server is using Mythic's intellectual property and their code which is protected by copyright law.
 

Tilda

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And in reply to the OP, FH is lucky enough to be graced with the GOA GM's, as a result we generally enforce the GoA CoC, and thus, advertising freeshards is not permitted.

The original thread was left because at first glance it looked to me like it was just a fun video. When you added the stuff to your sig and made the post in RvR forum saying "pm me on how to get started" it turned from being a nice video into a blatant advertising ploy.
Thus both threads were removed.

Dallas, you have a right to free speach, when your in your own house and nobody can hear you. However you are a guest on these forums, who has the privilegde of posting. Therefore to save ourselves from legal action (and because we can) FH limits your freedom of speach and so you may not advertise freeshards.

The google adds for radar are beyond our control.
As much as everybody loves using it, and whines to fuck when banned, nobody seems to want to support FH by donating for its continued operation. Thus ads are required, these are selected by google.
While it is possible to remove specific ads if they're reported with the IP that appears in the ad, its simply not feasable to do this unless someone reports an add.
 

fl3a

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thank you tilda, that was the answer i was looking for :)
 

Seakul

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Requiel said:
Firstly you are modifying the client, otherwise you would be connecting to the official servers. You must at the very least have a different login.dat file which is a qualitative modification.
The passage you are looking for is the very first sentence of the passage I quoted above (bold emphasis mine). The phrase 'The System' is defined as the official servers earlier in the EULA.



On top of all of that, anyone running a DAoC server is using Mythic's intellectual property and their code which is protected by copyright law.
DoL runs under GNU or is it GNL open source emulator software which is 200% legal and nor can anyone do anything about it, if parts of the client is not edited it is not breaching anything. GoA are just worried about lining there pockets and abusing power as per usual (Hello MR I refuse to reply to anyone that has legit issues with me or GoA) and I would not be surprised they don’t have some sort of contract with freddyshouse.

Requiel said:
You think wrong. Anyone running a freeshard is stealing Mythic's IP from them. The EULA also specifically forbids any reverse engineering, or creation of derivative works. A freeshard is most certainly a 'derivative work' as well as being in violation of several of the other prohibited actions mentioned below and also of copyright law.





Freeshards are not legal in any way and accessing or running one is a breach of the CoC.
Total ballshit, Thanks


Requiel said:
Firstly you are modifying the client, otherwise you would be connecting to the official servers. You must at the very least have a different login.dat file which is a qualitative modification.
The passage you are looking for is the very first sentence of the passage I quoted above (bold emphasis mine). The phrase 'The System' is defined as the official servers earlier in the EULA.



On top of all of that, anyone running a DAoC server is using Mythic's intellectual property and their code which is protected by copyright law.
No one is running a daoc server, it is a open source DoL emulator and no client modding what so ever is needed.
 

Alan

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Seakul said:
DoL runs under GNU or is it GNL open source emulator software which is 200% legal and nor can anyone do anything about it, if parts of the client is not edited it is not breaching anything. GoA are just worried about lining there pockets and abusing power as per usual (Hello MR I refuse to reply to anyone that has legit issues with me or GoA) and I would not be surprised they don’t have some sort of contract with freddyshouse.

Total ballshit, Thanks


That is the biggest load of crap i've heard this year. It doesn't matter if the source is free/opensource or not the fact that they have stolen the concept from Mythic remains (hence the IP statements above)

and sorry to say but the client code IS changed in order to connect to the emulates server.
 

Tilda

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Seakul said:
DoL runs under GNU or is it GNL open source emulator software which is 200% legal and nor can anyone do anything about it, if parts of the client is not edited it is not breaching anything. GoA are just worried about lining there pockets and abusing power as per usual (Hello MR I refuse to reply to anyone that has legit issues with me or GoA) and I would not be surprised they don’t have some sort of contract with freddyshouse.

Total ballshit, Thanks

Seakul, chill out or lose the right to post.

DoL may run under some open source shit. But you can bet that if I released an "open source GNU windows" microsoft would sue my ass.
As Req said, if the client isn't edited, it connects to goa/mythic servers, therefore as it dosn't its obviously edited.

Unless you can quote something that supports your argument, rather than just quoting out of context, you may as well not bother posting in this thread again.
 

Seakul

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Tears said:
That is the biggest load of crap i've heard this year. It doesn't matter if the source is free/opensource or not the fact that they have stolen the concept from Mythic remains (hence the IP statements above)

and sorry to say but the client code IS changed in order to connect to the emulates server.
You of all people I would expect to know what the GNU is.


Tilda said:
Seakul, chill out or lose the right to post.

DoL may run under some open source shit. But you can bet that if I released an "open source GNU windows" microsoft would sue my ass.
As Req said, if the client isn't edited, it connects to goa/mythic servers, therefore as it dosn't its obviously edited.

Unless you can quote something that supports your argument, rather than just quoting out of context, you may as well not bother posting in this thread again.
The client may be modded in a sort of way, but hosting an emulator (none of Mythics code and no GoA/Mythic EULA to agree to) is not in anyway illegal or breaching anything. You think Mythic would let 1-2k play their game else where? I think not, Mythic don't have a leg to stand on with freeshards. If it was stolen / leaked server files like some other mmoprgs (LoM) etc it would be a different matter. I will dig some info up for you in a bit to back what I said.
 

Alan

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Seakul said:
You of all people I would expect to know what the GNU is.

Like i said above, it doesn't matter what licence the code is under, thats not at fault here, its the Intellectual Property of the code - the concept, the rule set, the idea, those are owned by Mythic. As Tilda says if I were to release something that looked exactly like Windows XP I would be dragged to court by microsoft faster than you can say XP.
 

Watchh

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Correct me if i am wrong , but if i download/install for instance ToA client .. u dont accept any Eula or Coc untill u actually login with your account (wich i dont) .

Then i install a program wich will launch your ToA client and connect to randomx freeshard.

there is no client modding going on, just install daoc + the launcher
and afaik the launcher isn't 3th party program since it doesn't affect the game in any way during play and is turned off immediatly after launch etc .

and i diden't even accept any CoC or Eula.

if i now want to play on GoA server , i can install my DR client and happily accept the CoC and login without breaking it .

I'm not sure about any legal matters etc etc, so this can be actually verry wrong :p ... just checking
 

Kuhan

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then why dont mythic just sue them all shut it down and watch the daoc live servers population go up ?
 

Seakul

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Tears said:
OMG please read what people are writing here, its not about the code and the license it falls under - its about the IP held by Mythic for the game.
Which bit are you refusing to take in? You can start copying what requiel is saying and denying everything. The actual DoL server files are not in breach of any copy right laws, IT IS DEVELOPED UNDER THE GPL. Mythic have said so, it is GoA being aggressive towards freeshards and FH backing them. Mythic sued Microsoft for ages for developing a game with part of the word Mythic in it; you think they are going to ignore freeshards if it breaches anything at all?
 

Seakul

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Watchh said:
Correct me if i am wrong , but if i download/install for instance ToA client .. u dont accept any Eula or Coc untill u actually login with your account (wich i dont) .

Then i install a program wich will launch your ToA client and connect to randomx freeshard.

there is no client modding going on, just install daoc + the launcher
and afaik the launcher isn't 3th party program since it doesn't affect the game in any way during play and is turned off immediatly after launch etc .

and i diden't even accept any CoC or Eula.

if i now want to play on GoA server , i can install my DR client and happily accept the CoC and login without breaking it .

I'm not sure about any legal matters etc etc, so this can be actually verry wrong :p ... just checking
Say you have never played or been on any Daoc websites or agreed to anything, you then host DoL so you are breaching the EULA come on please?

Kuhan said:
then why dont mythic just sue them all shut it down and watch the daoc live servers population go up ?
Because the judge would laugh when someone shows him a copy of the GPL.
 

Misleath

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Tilda said:
The google adds for radar are beyond our control.
As much as everybody loves using it, and whines to fuck when banned, nobody seems to want to support FH by donating for its continued operation. Thus ads are required, these are selected by google.
While it is possible to remove specific ads if they're reported with the IP that appears in the ad, its simply not feasable to do this unless someone reports an add.

It is your choice to take adds from a company with questionable ads.
 

soze

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Watchh said:
Correct me if i am wrong , but if i download/install for instance ToA client .. u dont accept any Eula or Coc untill u actually login with your account (wich i dont) .

Then i install a program wich will launch your ToA client and connect to randomx freeshard.

there is no client modding going on, just install daoc + the launcher
and afaik the launcher isn't 3th party program since it doesn't affect the game in any way during play and is turned off immediatly after launch etc .

and i diden't even accept any CoC or Eula.

if i now want to play on GoA server , i can install my DR client and happily accept the CoC and login without breaking it .

I'm not sure about any legal matters etc etc, so this can be actually verry wrong :p ... just checking

But you do agree to a licence to install the programme it might say something about ownership of it there.
 

Alan

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Seakul said:
Which bit are you refusing to take in? You can start copying what requiel is saying and denying everything. The actual DoL server files are not in breach of any copy right laws, IT IS DEVELOPED UNDER THE GPL. Mythic have said so, it is GoA being aggressive towards freeshards and FH backing them. Mythic sued Microsoft for ages for developing a game with part of the word Mythic in it; you think they are going to ignore freeshards if it breaches anything at all?

I give up and turning in for the night, have fun in life if you believe you can steal other peoples ideas :)
 
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