Thoughts on Zerging, caused by population or not?

[GrafenburgMerc]

Hi,

I read a lot of comments about Alb being zergtastic in thid (have experienced it and commented on it myself). In turn, albs get a bad reputation as overpopulated noobs that cant do anything but zerg. While population may contribute I dont think its the whole problem.

The problem is that classes in some realms are overpowered when played solo, hence we see a large number of these classes (EN ZERGE) instead of balanced groups.

For example:

Hib...

No really overpowered classes in thid other that animist (and they have to stay in 1 place to be overpowered). Because of this Hibs never zerg and tend to run balanced Fg's

Mid...

Only really Bonedancer thats OP in thid I believe so we tend to get a few of these running about but not a lot at all.

Alb...

Hmmmm lets see.

Sorc - OP mezz, speed, nuke, pet - need i say more
Theurg - PET SPAM FTW!!
Scout - Crazy range and damage
Inf - 2.5 spec points, need I say more


Imho, balance alb classes and improve the alb reputation - /Debate and /Flame on.

Diagnosis - 24 Zerker

 

[Porkchop]

A buffed crush paladin in Thid seemed very good pre-NF. Far more awesome than my old skald or hunter. For anyone making a paladin specifically for Thid, you might want to try it - nothing beats the stun really. Some good SBs there though, soon put you in your place.

 

[Sendraks]

All the realms zerg.

Accusations of "zerging" occur when one side is outnumbered by the other, most often this is Albion as there are more Alb players on this server than the other realms have. However, there are plenty of other occasions in my RvR and BG experience where, for whatever reason, Albs are out numbered by one or both of the other realms. Doesn't matter if its 4 Albs vs 2fgm, thats still Albs being zerged by Mids.

There is no intent on the Mids part to deliberately outnumber the Albs, its just that they happen to find once they are in the BG that there is less opposition than they expected. Naturally they will wipe the floor with the Albs, which is no more or less than any other realm would've done in similar circumstances.

There is also a tendancy that if one realm is zerging another in one BG or RvR, the reverse is often happening somewhere else.

If the populations of all 3 realms on this server were equal, there would be equal amounts of zerging happening across the various RvR zones.

The belief that one realm runs better balanced groups and never zergs is a false one, designed purely to bolster egos and create an illusion of skill over an opponent that has superior numbers in a certain situation.

 

[AtomicBattleHamster]

Hi,

I read a lot of comments about Alb being zergtastic in thid (have experienced it and commented on it myself). In turn, albs get a bad reputation as overpopulated noobs that cant do anything but zerg. While population may contribute I dont think its the whole problem.

The problem is that classes in some realms are overpowered when played solo, hence we see a large number of these classes (EN ZERGE) instead of balanced groups.

For example:

Hib...

No really overpowered classes in thid other that animist (and they have to stay in 1 place to be overpowered). Because of this Hibs never zerg and tend to run balanced Fg's

Mid...

Only really Bonedancer thats OP in thid I believe so we tend to get a few of these running about but not a lot at all.

Alb...

Hmmmm lets see.

Sorc - OP mezz, speed, nuke, pet - need i say more
Theurg - PET SPAM FTW!!
Scout - Crazy range and damage
Inf - 2.5 spec points, need I say more


Imho, balance alb classes and improve the alb reputation - /Debate and /Flame on.

Diagnosis - 24 Zerker

Once again, someone starts a potentially objective thread only to immediately conclude that Albion is overpowered or turn it into a "hey look at my original thread" all dressed up as some question.

To address your initial statement: Of course over population in a single realm will result in higher numbers of players fielded in RVR/BG's. This is essentially cause and effect. But this bears no relation to even contemplate saying that no BG characters in Midgard or Hibernia are "overpowered" (which in itself it a definition that is far too general), whilst Albion has the 4 you listed.

Amusing.

Any character, if buffed/twinked or even played well can be "overpowered" against those that might not be so well equipped.
How can you not see that ? Does the red mist of online gaming really cloud your judgement to the point where you join the sheep of Freddyshouse trying to attribute a games problems to a single realm, when really there's bigger issues at stake ??!?

It's the game, Mythic broke the game and then issues like over population in Albion only adds to the cycle, but it is NOT the sole cause.

 

[Mabs]

u will never get an equal number of people in a given area.
everyone who is there wants RPs. so they will congregate where the action in, invariably around the CK/bridges area.
each person has just as much right to be there as the next, and as much right to kill whoever they want

however, the anti-zerging system is counter productive in thid
at 50, you kill someone you get , say, 1000 RPs
you and a friend kill him, you get, say, 700 each
in thid, you kill someone you get 1 rp. maybe 2 or 3
you and 20 other people hit him, you get less RPs, but you still have to have some, u cant get less than 1, so everyone gets 1 . so the more people who hit them the more RPs they generate, which is f*cked - there is no incentive to NOT add on fights

some people solo, fair play, lots of people dont care, they just want as many RPs as possible as quickly as possible, you cant stop them

as to the classes, people will play what they want, again u cant stop them, usually there is a balance, tho with thid i have noticed a general lock of healing toons, not so bad now with release to the PK, but it was grim before being spammed with rude demands for rez from RP hungry tards.
And lots of classes scale differently at 24. zerkers are incredibly nasty played well, as are skalds solo. all it takes is some semi decent equipment, some practise and a bit of imagination, you dont need to make BBd BD, infil, etc, to have fun, but people will cos its percieved as an *easy* way to *win*.



/waffle

few zergs are deliberate they are a product of the environment

 

[lovelyinfil]

its not that all albs like the zerging, personaly i prefer running solo.

but yes maybe infils are overpowered with the many spec points

 

[Votan]

Overpopulation does not cause zerging; it just makes it easier to happen. When I ventured out into thid last night it was the mids who were on a rampage or "zerging" as lots prefer to call it.

Thid isnt the best of places to get good solo/duo fights as its hardly worth your while. I was looking for some solo fights but got none so i just joined the masses. Molvik/Leirvik are probably better places to get a decent fight as they're usually a lot less busy.

 

[Helme]

Some people like to zerg, overpopulated realms got more of them thus simply got bigger zergs!

 

[Kalidur]

isnt that what the BG's are for ??

small map, one centrap point where everyone tries to flood to

you also forget some classes need to be in that kind of setting, as a fire wizard i prolly make one of the worst solo classes in the BG (unless i'm in a keep) unless theres lots of people around me i get targetted first, i also die very fast

for me moving around with the group is the safest option it means theres a lot of alternative targets other than me.

If i ran solo, every archer class or stealther would kill me without any trouble

most of the hybrid melee classes would also beat me easily its only coz they dont target me i can wipe them out. so maybe a zerg is a bad thing to one class but its the only way i can get out of a keep and take part in some action.

if i do a /who leirvik or /who molvik unless theres a decent amount of people there i wont even enter the BG, why because i prolly wouldnt get a single kill and on top of that prolly get soloed by anyone.

maybe bad to some, but its the only survivability to other

I also think theres a bit of people wanting to be able to solo everything, solo upto a high RR, solo arti's its just not always like that

 

[Sendraks]

Some people like to zerg, overpopulated realms got more of them thus simply got bigger zergs!

I think thats partially true. There is a lot of fun to be had as part of a massive force but really its only fun if the enemy has similar numbers. Massive battles look great and are very chaotic.

Otherwise I think people zerg to survive. They have trouble getting a group, for whatever reason, and they greatly improve their survivability by mixing with a large number of other players,

 

[SiddlesVonHell]

Face it, albion always zerg. Mids are not far behind but bolt range mez>all. Hibs rarely zerg and it only occurs during _real_ keep siege or when we actually have the keep, which is like never.

 

[SiddlesVonHell]

Face it, albion always zerg. Mids are not far behind but bolt range mez>all. Hibs rarely zerg and it only occurs during _real_ keep siege or when we actually have the keep, which is like never. One can make as many excuses as one wants but when it comes right down to it 44/31/24 alb/mid/hib is the ratio that shows albs to outnumber mids and mids to outnumber hibs.

 

[Legaen]

One word, "Yawn"

 

[AtomicBattleHamster]

Face it, albion always zerg. Mids are not far behind but bolt range mez>all. Hibs rarely zerg and it only occurs during _real_ keep siege or when we actually have the keep, which is like never.

Translated.

"Hi, I'm a Hib and far superior to the rest of you scummy gamers.... did I mention we're all perfect?"

 

[SiddlesVonHell]

ehrm no?

 

[AtomicBattleHamster]

ehrm no?

Seeing as you added the "?", then it must be a question and I've answered it already so I wont repeat myself....but I'll help you out here.....

Saying Albion zergs (and Hib never does unless it's a keep raid) is not only a lack of observation on your part, but sheer arrogance/ignorance/stupidity !

I guess people only see what they want to.

If you say something blatently stupid, don't get all arsey/defensive if people point it out

 

[Devilseye]

Seeing as you added the "?", then it must be a question and I've answered it already so I wont repeat myself....but I'll help you out here.....

Saying Albion zergs (and Hib never does unless it's a keep raid) is not only a lack of observation on your part, but sheer arrogance/ignorance/stupidity !

I guess people only see what they want to.

If you say something blatently stupid, don't get all arsey/defensive if people point it out

Hey Atomic
Nice fight last time btw.. you spotted my shade.. and followed me.. i /sticked and PA'd

Won.. and died caused by the sorcs and theurgs =]


Anyways.. Gotnl is back (well: Gotnls actualy) keeping the old NS
See you tomorrow

 

[AtomicBattleHamster]

Hey Atomic
Nice fight last time btw.. you spotted my shade.. and followed me.. i /sticked and PA'd

Won.. and died caused by the sorcs and theurgs =]


Anyways.. Gotnl is back (well: Gotnls actualy) keeping the old NS
See you tomorrow

Aye, I was being nice not revealing you infront of the other Albs and you go and attack me

 

[GrafenburgMerc]

Once again, someone starts a potentially objective thread only to immediately conclude that Albion is overpowered or turn it into a "hey look at my original thread" all dressed up as some question.

It's the game, Mythic broke the game and then issues like over population in Albion only adds to the cycle, but it is NOT the sole cause.

Atomic, I think you kinda missed my point. I did not intend to dis albion and claim the realm is overpowered (its not imho), I was mearly stating that mythic design of the alb classes listed makes them all somewhat FOTM. When this happens you get a surgence of peeps playing them (ie Savage syndrome). This causes a reduction in balanced thid group structure (not helped by weak support classes in alb).

Your last comment about "Mythic broke the game" totally backs up what I suggested originally, population is not the only cause.

An example:

When I play my zerker in thid, one class I hate going up against is the polearmsman, plate + spec af + high WS and damage + a snare anytime style means whatever it hits cant run and will prolly die. This is very powerfull in a thid group setup (no way I can kill support if I cant get to them).

Is this FOTM?

Not a chance, arms are so rare in thid these days. They just cant be effective solo and deffinatly cant spam pets 5 at a time that snare u and nuke harder that the caster that spawned them.

Get my point?

Diagnosis - 24 Zerker

 

[prOx^^]

whine

PLS WHY!?! why do al have to whine about al and everything? this is a game and nothing else! Sometimes alb zerg thid and sometimes mids zerg to! that's the game and no one should whine about it! If u al are whine:ing u should go and pve insteed! al that agree would understand me....

 

[SiddlesVonHell]

Yep thanks for that enlightenment, Atomic. You have convinced me that hibs are fully able to zerg and always have the numbers that mids and albs have. Thank you so much for I have seen the light and now I understand I was wrong and, heck why don't we even admit it? It's us hibs that zerg the most and because we have ck around 95% of the time we zerg even more than we usually do.

 

[Kalidur]

Yep thanks for that enlightenment, Atomic. You have convinced me that hibs are fully able to zerg and always have the numbers that mids and albs have. Thank you so much for I have seen the light and now I understand I was wrong and, heck why don't we even admit it? It's us hibs that zerg the most and because we have ck around 95% of the time we zerg even more than we usually do.

i've seen FG's of hibs in both molvik and leirvik the only problem is as soon as the numbers start equaling up half the hibs chicken out.

FG of hibs killing off the 2-3 albs there as soon as theres about 5-6 the hibs start to drop off until theres about 1-2 left, now its not the fault of the other realms that the majority of hibs are a bunch of chickens. this isnt a one off thing i've been zerged a few times by the hibs they just dont last. so dont come defending your realm when they all jump off as soon as things start heating up.

once again i'll say i have a lot of respect for mid players for sticking it out, they zerg they get zerged, but the hibs well they just crawl back into the hole they came out of.

 

[Sendraks]

Yep thanks for that enlightenment, Atomic. You have convinced me that hibs are fully able to zerg and always have the numbers that mids and albs have. Thank you so much for I have seen the light and now I understand I was wrong and, heck why don't we even admit it? It's us hibs that zerg the most and because we have ck around 95% of the time we zerg even more than we usually do.

Thats not what he said at all.

Hibs do zerg, not as much as Mid and Alb do, but thats purely on the basis of numbers, not innate psychological differences between the players on each realm.

I've been outnumbered by Hibs plenty of times in BGs and RvR, which really is all zerging is. When one side is outnumbered by the other.

 

[SiddlesVonHell]

Well then you all need to use the proper wording.

1fg = 1fg

3fg-4fg = zerg

10fg+ = Relic Raid

8v1 = Steamrolling.

 

[Sendraks]

Well then you all need to use the proper wording.

Last time I checked, you aren't the be all and end all of DAoC terms. I don't think I'll be switching terms just because they support your argument.

4 people vs 2fg, those 4 people are on the receiving end of a zerg imo. 3fg of people vs 1fg, those 3fg are also zerging.

There are no definite parameters by which you, or anyone, can say, "this is a zerg and this is not" as its not just based on the size of the largest force. Yes 100 Albs vs 100 Mids, both sides could be said to be zerging, but also effectively a 1vs1 fight, as the numbers match. 2fg Hibs vs a group of 4 Albs, those Albs have been zerged as they were outnumbered 4 to one. That little zerg has just steamrolled those 4 albs if you will. Took as much skill and thought as it does for 4fg of Albs to hit 1fg of Hibs.

All relams zerg. There is no magical "none zerging realm" that possesses superior skill to all other realms.

 

[knighthood]

u guys realise that bg's are mostly full of nubs , and overpowered sorcies from alb have leetzors range woot and they spamzors dem mezzors and wooooot look, fg mids mezzed. But thens oh thens... what happens, teh zerg comes.. and breaks teh mezz with teh letsgetsomemuddyfunsting rp . I played sorc, full mind in bg1 and i got bored of mezzing, which dont count as dmg and therfor doesnt aquire rp , and having the rest break my nice landed mezz. Mincer overpowered ? well not really, not in bg1 anyway , the stealths shite and if it isnt they hit like pallys with broken arms, which incedently they do anyway, theyre only good in zergs in bg1. Thergs... i agree with u there, stupid class imo, im an alb and even i think they shuldnt have been made. As for infils , well, generally infils get blown to pieces by the surrounding BD and Runies/Chanters straight after they get the kill. Reavers are overpowered in bg1 though bigtime and cabbys. Oh and b4 the anti alb whine continues, remeber mids got BD, the most overpowered of all. And if hibs get base stun off on u with a caster class your dead.

btw ignore all i just said

+1

bored

 

[Tualatin]

lol, you (thread poster) should get a clue. hibs are scared.. they only come out when they own CK. They took ck 3am in the morning, just before they were to go on a relic raid.

When they are out.. they have the biggest zerg. And Mids zerg thid too.. same as albs.

Zerging is part of the game; Massive Multiplayer.... Who cares, even if albs really stopped zerging... They would still be accused of it, because the 1337 kiddies in mid/hib can't stand losing. Or they would find something else to whine about.

 

[knighthood]

or maybe you dont know what your on about. Albs do zerg, im an alb, have been for about 7/8 of my daoc life. We do zerg , we do camp MTK and HTK with about 20 people not allowing them to come out, its quite pathetic really. And im ashamed of it. Personally i do like to solo, its more xp and rp but its mostly impossible to solo in thid , too many stealthers or u get steamrolled. Yes mids zerg too, though hibs , i dont mind zerging as its not often and when they come out in force, bg1 turns into a free for all not just albs vs mids. Its never gonn change, well maybe not till catacombs when banshees use the realm guard thingy on them rabid badgers and tomte camp and mids r 1 shotting all the alb zerg with warlocks

 

[Flimgoblin]

when some buffbotted SCed duelist comes up and starts slaughtering you - god damn right you're gonna zerg 'em

 

[Sendraks]

or maybe you dont know what your on about. Albs do zerg, im an alb, have been for about 7/8 of my daoc life. We do zerg , we do camp MTK and HTK with about 20 people not allowing them to come out, its quite pathetic really. And im ashamed of it.

No one is saying Albs don't zerg.

What is being said is that this is not exclusive to Albion in anyway shape or form.

Albion is no more or less pathetic than any other realm.