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[Job]

Unnecessary pun at end of KFC fire article.

Car on fire rolls up to KFC drive-thru window

 

[Hawkwind]

So job losses = fewer people flying = overcapacity. How is that BS?

You clearly don't understand the economics of buying aircraft and how it works and what drives airlines to buy/lease.
You linked a UAE news site, I'm telling you that the article is wrong and that they cannot print the truth. The over capacity right (in ME Region) now is a small blip and caused by oil prices which will recover and things will get better. Talking to a hotelier friend they reckon 2 lean years of discounts to get people interested then it should be back to normal.

So, you don't buy or lease aircraft based on cyclical economies, $240 Mill for a B777. You do it based on expected pax growth over 10-15 years with a route plan. With most leases being 7-12 years. They know the growth is coming which is why they have orders spanning the next 10 years for B777X, B787, A380 and A350's, nearly 500 aircraft between Qatar, Emirates and Etihad. Airlines typically have a model where they know how many aircraft they want to service the route structure, they buy in batches to get reduced pricing and incentives from the OEM's. No one pays book price for an aircraft. The financing however does go to book price, the airline then gets a kickback from the OEM. The difference between book and airline value can be 10's of million. So buying aircraft can often be good for the books. The game gets way harder when your not buying bulk and relying on just operating profits.

Saw something recently about United's domestic service which stated that the average flight in USA makes only $120 after all costs. Quite incredible and makes you wonder why the hell they keep doing it.

 

[DaGaffer]

You clearly don't understand the economics of buying aircraft and how it works and what drives airlines to buy/lease.
You linked a UAE news site, I'm telling you that the article is wrong and that they cannot print the truth. The over capacity right (in ME Region) now is a small blip and caused by oil prices which will recover and things will get better. Talking to a hotelier friend they reckon 2 lean years of discounts to get people interested then it should be back to normal.

So, you don't buy or lease aircraft based on cyclical economies, $240 Mill for a B777. You do it based on expected pax growth over 10-15 years with a route plan. With most leases being 7-12 years. They know the growth is coming which is why they have orders spanning the next 10 years for B777X, B787, A380 and A350's, nearly 500 aircraft between Qatar, Emirates and Etihad. Airlines typically have a model where they know how many aircraft they want to service the route structure, they buy in batches to get reduced pricing and incentives from the OEM's. No one pays book price for an aircraft. The financing however does go to book price, the airline then gets a kickback from the OEM. The difference between book and airline value can be 10's of million. So buying aircraft can often be good for the books. The game gets way harder when your not buying bulk and relying on just operating profits.

Saw something recently about United's domestic service which stated that the average flight in USA makes only $120 after all costs. Quite incredible and makes you wonder why the hell they keep doing it.

Yes yes, aircraft are expensive and have long capex cycles. None of which takes away from capacity constraints within a given calendar year, so prices vary.

 

[dysfunction]

Some heavy handed treatment of a passenger on United Airlines.
Not good for their reputation.

Man refuses to leave the plane after being asked to make room for plane staff.

United Airlines incident: What went wrong? - BBC News

 

[Raven]

I just don't understand the bit where they say they over sold. How is that even possible? Do they take bookings in a paper ledger and sometimes forget to fill it in?

 

[dysfunction]

They do it on purpose to make sure they don't have empty seats.
I don't know why they don't just stop people at the point of checking in/boarding if they are now full up.

 

[Job]

Together we beat them.
Oh yeah..and a line of Police officers holding them back.

For me its hilarious, her dress sense and western attitudes would cause her confrontation against the very people the EDL hate...she is probably ideologically closer to EDL values than Islamic ones.


Saffiyah Khan meets woman she defended at EDL demo

 

[DaGaffer]

I just don't understand the bit where they say the over sold. How is that even possible? Do they take bookings in a paper ledger and sometimes forget to fill it in?

They didn't oversell (although yes, they do actually do that, and often) in this particular case. They decided to kick four people off in favour of four United employees. Which is fucking unbelievable.

The really stupid bit is if they're going to be self-serving cunts, why not do it before everyone boarded? So, self-serving, violent, incompetent cunts basically.

 

[Raven]

They do it on purpose to make sure they don't have empty seats.
I don't know why they don't just stop people at the point of checking in/boarding if they are now full up.

Alternatively they could just sell the same amount of tickets as they have seats. Any cancellations get put back up for sale any non arrivers lose out. If they end up with some spare seats, say 30 mins before take off, offer them to staff.

 

[Zarjazz]

... The really stupid bit is if they're going to be self-serving cunts, why not do it before everyone boarded? So, self-serving, violent, incompetent cunts basically.

Pretty much this. Almost every flight is over sold as there's always at least someone who will miss the flight so the Airlines factor that in. But yeah, why they didn't stop the people at the gate (which is the usual) in the first place is beyond me. Looks to me like it was a last second decision that just spiralled out of control and no one with any common sense got involved.

 

[Hawkwind]

They do it on purpose to make sure they don't have empty seats.
I don't know why they don't just stop people at the point of checking in/boarding if they are now full up.

They oversell because roughly 5-10%, depending on region, simply don't turn up for the flight. Problems like this occur when everyone turns up. Usually it's just a case of upgrading to next class if seats are available. It should not get to a point of a PAX sat in his seat is being offloaded. If the seats were not available he should not have made it past check-in. They usually tell you its oversold and your weight-listed. United screwed up, probably had some tech issues and had to get a crew there to fly a diverted plane. On-the-fly rescheduling. Better to piss of one pax rather than a full plane load.

 

[Hawkwind]

Yes yes, aircraft are expensive and have long capex cycles. None of which takes away from capacity constraints within a given calendar year, so prices vary.

Well, actually short term leases and wet leases (with crew + Maint services/spares etc.) are a very common way around this. Many companies set up to do this globally for both narrow and widebody aircraft types. Example below:

Wet / ACMI lease | MAKRAT- The Aviation Trading Specialist

Airlines themselves even offer such aircraft and services to others, typically off season for them. Regardless there are many ways to get around short term/seasonal variations in capacity.

 

[TdC]

Together we beat them.
Oh yeah..and a line of Police officers holding them back.

Yeah. Tells a lot about the EDL don't you think?

 

[Raven]

The EDL would soon disappear if people just went about their business in the normal way, they can screech their hate to nobody in particular.

 

[Job]

I think b

Yeah. Tells a lot about the EDL don't you think?

I think both side at those 'events' are as bad as each other.
You won't see extremist muslims shouting death to infidels in the national press, because thats racist.

 

[fettoken]

Well, there's shades of brown here to be honest. If people would stop jumping on either bandwagon and do some critical thinking for themselves, that'd be great.

 

[Raven]

I think the major problem is that people do not want other people to have an opinion.

Regardless of how retarded the EDL are, in a democracy they are perfectly entitled to an opinion, no matter how dumb it is. They should also be perfectly entitled to march, protest, whatever. Shouting them down in the street is exactly what they want because underneath their argument is flawed, they know it, all they want is coverage.

 

[fettoken]

Yes, the opinion corridor. It's really quiet counteracting towards a healthy society. That's why countries have dictators with armed soldiers in the streets - to avoid 'miscommunication'.

Of sorts, it's comparable to Turkey, at least in the past, could throw you in jail for badmouthing Ataturk, while some countries also could if you praise the Nazi era (which is considered extremist view, and rightly so).

Compare London back in the 60's and 70's when my mother lived in London, and now. Shithole compared to then, in my opinion. Well, it was filthy in another way back then, but that's another story. This can of course be chalked down to times changing and so does society with it, for example, i heard kidnappings back then were a real problem.

Islam in the United Kingdom has grown rapidly due to immigration since the 1980s. In 2011, 2.7 million Muslims (4.8% of total population) lived in the UK (mostly in England), more than quintupling over a 30-year period (550,000 in 1981), with a continued tendency of rapid growth[1]

There's certainly a discourse, and one could guess it's partly due to this (religion). Undeniably so. Well, no sane person wants religion to permeate society, and with Christianity, we've overcome the oppressive Church and now joke and criticize it, for example, their history with child abuse.

With the religion that is Islam, you face multiple threats. From a demographic standpoint, you might be ostracized, face death-threats from certain unsavory characters (goes both ways though), hanged out in media-outlets, from Newspapers to online media, and as in Denmark, killed for drawing caricatures. That furthers the polarization within societies, and poof, we have current time standards.

Conclusion: Some cultures doesn't mix well in large numbers, depending on the ratio.

Islamism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia and The History of Islam and Britain

Legit numbers?

 

[fettoken]

Discourse = Discord

 

[fettoken]

Though, with regards to religions not mixing, in Irak back in the 80's Muslims and Christians didn't seem to have a problem. In 'defense' of Islam, many Muslims i know say that the Quran has been interpreted incorrectly by many due to circumstances I'm unaware of, and that's also contributing to what's happening today. Someone mentioned something about a false Hadith.

 

[Bodhi]

They oversell because roughly 5-10%, depending on region, simply don't turn up for the flight. Problems like this occur when everyone turns up. Usually it's just a case of upgrading to next class if seats are available. It should not get to a point of a PAX sat in his seat is being offloaded. If the seats were not available he should not have made it past check-in. They usually tell you its oversold and your weight-listed. United screwed up, probably had some tech issues and had to get a crew there to fly a diverted plane. On-the-fly rescheduling. Better to piss of one pax rather than a full plane load.

I don't have much to add to this, other than I have 4 flights booked with United Airlines in May.

Lovely.

 

[Hawkwind]

I don't have much to add to this, other than I have 4 flights booked with United Airlines in May.

Lovely.

The new aircraft are nice, decent IFE (Panasonic ) and good seats (BE Aerospace/Weber)

 

[Ormorof]

Apparently also super friendly if they are overbooked

 

[TdC]

I think b
I think both side at those 'events' are as bad as each other.
You won't see extremist muslims shouting death to infidels in the national press, because thats racist.

An extremist of any persuasion is generally a terrificly fucked up individual.

 

[sayward]

Almost 3 years since we moved and we have finally started planting flowers in our garden!

 

[Bodhi]

The new aircraft are nice, decent IFE (Panasonic ) and good seats (BE Aerospace/Weber)

We have a 777 to Houston and a 787 back from LA, so not too worried about them. The 737's? Hmmm....

 

[Job]

An extremist of any persuasion is generally a terrificly fucked up individual.

Yes, but the bias is in plain sight and no argument is allowed...how many times has a white britain smiled in defiance at a screaming islamic extremist...it doesnt make the news because people would be afraid to print it.
They would be accused of taking it out of context, racism and bigotry.
So all we see in simplistic feelgood, westernised muslims standing proud against evil right wingers.
The reality is the muslims get away with death threats, calls to arm, incitement of violence and illegal marches all the time, it is never reported except in the extreme right wing press.
Meanwhile cute girl smiles from her moral highground at rightwing protesters goes viral.
Its a farce..
And is the basis of the simmering discontent that is putting Europe on the path to the Fourth Reich.

 

[Scouse]

The reality is the muslims get away with death threats, calls to arm, incitement of violence and illegal marches all the time, it is never reported

Sources please.

Living in Bradford, the only time there was ever violence was when the NF or some other white hooligan fucktards turned up to deliberately stir shit up (like turning up at an indian or pakistani wedding and throwing shit about and scarpering before the police arrived - and doing it at various points around the city trying to stir up retaliatory mobs. They'd come from fucking London ffs - just to stir shit up, the cunts).

Spontaneous "islamist" marches simply didn't happen.

 

[Raven]

NF...so 20 years or so ago.

I hear Last of the Summer wine is excellent on TV.

 

[TdC]

Yes, but the bias is in plain sight and no argument is allowed...how many times has a white britain smiled in defiance at a screaming islamic extremist...it doesnt make the news because people would be afraid to print it.

If the media could find a credible photo of such a smile, I'm fairly sure it would be printed.

So all we see in simplistic feelgood, westernised muslims standing proud against evil right wingers.

I wonder why the evil right-wingers are shouting at the simplistic feelgood, westernised muslims for them to take this stance. Aren't they the type of Muslims the right want?

The reality is the muslims get away with death threats, calls to arm, incitement of violence and illegal marches all the time, it is never reported except in the extreme right wing press.

I doubt it. Unless you're looking for headlines like "EVIL NON-ANGLO-SAXON NON-COE JOB SNATCHERS FROM THE DREAD BROWN LANDS DESTROY PEACEFUL ANGLOPHILE PICNIC KILLING HUNDREDS OF CHERISHED BRITISH CHILDEREN" and not whatever really happened. No offence.

Meanwhile cute girl smiles from her moral highground at rightwing protesters goes viral.
Its a farce..

why? because she was right? because the people sharing her image agree with her? do you know what moral highground means?

And is the basis of the simmering discontent that is putting Europe on the path to the Fourth Reich.

loooool get real. for all the presence of the extreme left, right, and the terror attacks in Europe, the place is surprisingly balanced when push comes to shove. I do notice that extremists prefer to claim it isn't, but to be fair, when one is in one's self an outlier then everyone else must be wrong.