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[Scouse]

The fact that I have eyes and no specific agenda.

I'd dispute one, if not both of those assertions

 

[Access Denied]

Another argument about cycling? Really?

 

[Scouse]

Who's that nasty bad lip-synced minger?

 

[Raven]

To be fair, I would ruin her, whoever she is.

 

[Scouse]

Think someone beat you to it.

 

[Tom]

Seeing as you know it all. How would you put a cycle route into small, closely grouped buildings?

(Ie, those not blown up and rebuilt in the war)

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I'd restrict the ability of people to drive cars, vans and lorries down those same streets. Hey presto, safe streets.

 

[Tom]

The fact that I have eyes and no specific agenda.

If you go to the Netherlands you will notice that much of the road network is built with cycling in mind and was built like that within the last 50-60 years. If you do the same here you will see much of the town and city roads have developed over hundreds of years.

Horse shit. Most of what has been achieved over there has been by reallocating existing space. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Shagrat]

I'd restrict the ability of people to drive cars, vans and lorries down those same streets. Hey presto, safe streets.

this, just get everyone out of the habit of using cars to do absolutely everything. want something from tescos? walk down you lazy prick.

the car is the problem in all this, and people wanting to travel round in their own little bubble, which has made public transport next to useless due to no investment and now we're stuck in some kind of no mans land where everyone sees the car as the only option.

 

[Raven]

Oh look, people moaning about trucks and vans and being completely oblivious to the fact that everything they own was transported in one and if it wasn't for them they would be living in a lean to in the woods trying to figure out how to hunt and cook their dinner.

 

[Scouse]

Oh look, people moaning about trucks and vans and being completely oblivious to the fact that everything they own was transported in one and if it wasn't for them they would be living in a lean to in the woods trying to figure out how to hunt and cook their dinner.

Really? The people in the Netherlands live like that do they?

Or did they completely overhaul their infrastructure? Yep. I think they did that. And so should we.

 

[Tom]

Oh look, people moaning about trucks and vans and being completely oblivious to the fact that everything they own was transported in one and if it wasn't for them they would be living in a lean to in the woods trying to figure out how to hunt and cook their dinner.

Every point you've raised has been answered, but if that's all you can muster in response I think it's fair to say that you still don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Raven]

Just because you want to get stuck in a circular argument because of different opinions, doesn't mean everyone does. I have already told you how it is and you cannot accept it. Not that bothered one way or the other, if I am honest. You continue to live in your little naive bubble and I will laugh at you when its raining.

 

[Raven]

It's come!

TX200 MKIII - Air Arms Air Arms

Lovely Minelli stock and an excellent baffled Walther barrel.

 

[Scouse]

I will laugh at you when its raining.

Love riding in the rain.

Went from Sheffield to Edale on Saturday, up and down the hills. Was damp and cold but I feel good facing the elements. Sunday shat it down. A bit of sleet on the higher ground. I got covered in mud from top to toe. Proper all-over crust. Once I was on the train back to Nottingham people were laughing their arse off at (with) me. Seeing someone that dirty seems to create a sort of party atmosphere with some people, so that's nice.

Yeah, I guess the commute looks grim, but people rock up at work much happier than they do if they've been jostling for position in a traffic jam.

 

[Himse]

View attachment 34810

It's come!

TX200 MKIII - Air Arms Air Arms

Lovely Minelli stock and an excellent baffled Walther barrel.

Is this to shoot the cyclists of the forum?

 

[Raven]

Is this to shoot the cyclists of the forum?

Nah, I won't be shooting dumb wildlife until I can get regular 1 inch groupings at 50+ yards

 

[Tom]

Is this to shoot the cyclists of the forum?

No, it's for shooting his foot, which is much larger.

 

[CorNokZ]

Who's that nasty bad lip-synced minger?

To be fair, I would ruin her, whoever she is.

From Mean Girls.. Also probably the last time Lindsay Lohan looked good, sober and healthy. So many teen wanks were had over Mean Girls Lindsay

Don't look her up now though.. Looks like she got curb stomped

 

[Gwadien]

I'd restrict the ability of people to drive cars, vans and lorries down those same streets. Hey presto, safe streets.

Doesn't like every city with 'ze old parts' do this now? York, Nottingham etc?

 

[Scouse]

Doesn't like every city with 'ze old parts' do this now? York, Nottingham etc?

They're starting to. Some cities are trying to be progressive without real buy-in from central government.

 

[Raven]

Yes, that's great. HGVs replaced by vans. Simple physics dictates that pretty much the same amount of energy is needed to transport the same amount of goods, 10 vans (or whatever) carrying the goods vs 1 HGV will most likely cause more of a danger to cyclists, due to far higher quantity of vehicles on the road. Plus make things cost more due to far higher distribution costs, more drivers, more congestion, more sitting in traffic, more emissions. Do you even know how many HGVs it takes to keep a supermarket (for example) stocked? Or how many HGVs are used in the supply chain? A hell of a lot more than you think by an incredible magnitude. Most have 100 or so bays at the various distribution points that are working 24/7. Rough statistics from the BBC (2014) puts it at 285,000 HGVs shifting 1.6 billion tons of goods a year. A typical VW transporter or Ford transit can carry roughly 1.5 - 2 tons depending on axle. I will leave the maths up to you as to how many vans you would need, even to just supply a small town, it would be huge.

The best thing for the near(ish) future will be ballooning but that shit won't fly (hurhur) for at least 20 years and is yet to be economically proved, let alone the control and safety measures. Big wagons are being improved all the time and it won't be long until they are much lower profile (the cabs at least) with much better visibility. It won't happen over night because the costs for a truck are obscene but will most likely be phased in over the next couple of decades. That being said, the fact that trucks now seem to need a big yellow sign on the back that states "This vehicle may turn left" says a lot. You can have all the safety in the world but it won't stop idiots undertaking.

Don't for a minute think that extra distribution costs won't be passed on to the customer, it's part of the cost of a good that is absolutely never absorbed by the retailer. Distribution and material costs are the first thing to be whacked onto cost.

Amazon are having a fair crack at it with smaller hubs working with the larger distribution sheds but then the moaners whinge like an old women when they invest profit into infrastructure and it doesn't actually decrease traffic, it just bumps it down the line. They can also absorb more cost due to the shear volume they are putting through. Indis and smaller companies cannot even begin to compete.

 

[Scouse]

So I guess nobody in the Netherlands gets shit delivered eh @Raven?


Tip: When arguing against something, check it isn't being done perfectly succesfully elsewhere.

 

[Raven]

Maybe you need to look up population density and distance between drops...just an idea.

Germany would be a good comparison to the UK. The Netherlands...not so much.

Besides which, going after trucks and drivers was only part of the solution there, they educated children to the dangers of HGVs, as in do not fuck about in their blind spots or you die.

 

[Gwadien]

But but but

Old parts of towns = bars and pubs and shopping centres have purpose made distribution points...

How many times do you see hgvs dropping shit off in the middle of cities? It's almost like theyre created for heavy goods

 

[Raven]

They still need to get them, they don't have magical tunnels.

 

[Lamp]

I love fireworks
Especially big ones

Biggest fireworks in the world:
View: http://youtu.be/ciynz7pGzho

 

[Scouse]

Maybe you need to look up population density

People: With over 16.5 million people and a population density of 488 people per km2, the Netherlands is the most densely populated country of the European Union and one of the mostly densely populated countries in the world

Next.

We get it @Raven. You work with lorries. Probably. Or something. I don't really care, you're wrong

They still need to get them, they don't have magical tunnels.

Oh. And Nottingham has magic delivery tunnels all over the place, used for just that purpose

 

[Raven]

Yes, so their population is far more concentrated than anywhere else and therefore requires far less distribution mileage, far less trucks, thanks for agreeing.

 

[Scouse]

Yes, so their population is far more concentrated than anywhere else and therefore requires far less distribution mileage, far less trucks, thanks for agreeing.

England and the Netherlands aren't far apart (England at 413).

 

[Raven]

What? Its about 370 people per square mile apart... That is a huge difference. The UK is 694 and the Netherlands is 1064