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[Moriath]

VW reaches US deal in emissions scandal - BBC News

Interesting i wonder if we get anything similar in the uk

 

[Raven]

He is a twat but not robbed anyone If people on the social don't like it then they can go to places that give hand outs every month, some every week. All they need to do is go to a place and perform a task for 8 hours a day.

 

[Scouse]

That isn't even remotely funny, it's just like 'OMG HATE ROYALTY, LETS SHIT ON PICTURES, SO LEL'

It's not his best work, and a long way from fucksticks. And if you're angry, it's very unlikely to be real shit.

But it's topical

 

[Scouse]

All they need to do is go to a place and perform a task for 8 hours a day.

No matter how menial, degrading and poorly paid it is, right?

I mean, you'd do that?

 

[Moriath]

No matter how menial, degrading and poorly paid it is, right?

I mean, you'd do that?

Everyone would do it if u had to to eat. I've worked some really shitty jobs in the past, summer ones at uni. Getting not much a day.

Cleaning is degrading? It has to be minimum wage so i would clean for 7.20 an hour or whatever it is.

What do u consider a degrading job? If its a paid job it has to be done by someone or the job wouldnt be there and if there was no value in it you wouldnt get paid for it.

Its people who think they are too good to flip burgers that need a reality check.

 

[Scouse]

Its people who think they are too good to flip burgers that need a reality check.

I agree - but if you find out that flipping burgers is all you can ever amount to then I don't blame them for opting out.

Aspiration is a lie for many. If you felt consigned to the dustbin of life for years on end wouldn't you opt out? By definition, not everyone can make it, and the low rungs of capitalist society are very low indeed.

 

[Scouse]

Time to ban diesel cars from being made or sold in the EU.

 

[Raven]

No matter how menial, degrading and poorly paid it is, right?

I mean, you'd do that?

No because I am trained otherwise.

But if I had fuck all going for me then yes. Someone has to do it ffs.

 

[Moriath]

I agree - but if you find out that flipping burgers is all you can ever amount to then I don't blame them for opting out.

Aspiration is a lie for many. If you felt consigned to the dustbin of life for years on end wouldn't you opt out? By definition, not everyone can make it, and the low rungs of capitalist society are very low indeed.

True but then they would have to if there wasnt an alternative as people used to before social payments.

I think it should be a real struggle to live on benefits so its better to go get a minimum wage job. At the moment a lot of times it doesnt pay to get a job.

Then top it up to be more comfortable for those who cannot work for what ever reason.

Theres too many that make a career out of the dole. Why should they get paid for not trying to contribute when they take money from those who do?

 

[Raven]

Aspiration is a lie for many. If you felt consigned to the dustbin of life for years on end wouldn't you opt out? By definition, not everyone can make it, and the low rungs of capitalist society are very low indeed.

Bullshit, some people just have to understand that they are basically useless. Its sad but reality. Its the fucking Xfactor generation with all that "You can do anything!" nonsense.

Bollocks, some people are designed to be unskilled toilet cleaners.

 

[fettoken]

And Prince apparently died now.

 

[Raven]

Bandwagoners...pfft

 

[DaGaffer]

Time to ban diesel cars from being made or sold in the EU.

What's the percentage of NOx and particulate emissions caused by passenger cars versus all other diesel sources? You may be absolutely correct, but if commercial transport (which is almost entirely diesel for road, rail, shipping, construction and farming globally) is making up the lion's share of the problem then banning diesel cars is a bit of a moot point. I have no frame of reference and can't seem to find any analysis of it.

 

[Scouse]

No because I am trained otherwise.

But if I had fuck all going for me then yes. Someone has to do it ffs.

Wage slavery.

Bullshit, some people just have to understand that they are basically useless.

Yeah. Accept that you're useless and your life is going to be shit.

JUST FUCKING ACCEPT IT OK

 

[Gwadien]

Bollocks, some people are designed to be unskilled toilet cleaners.

I was about to agree with you until you said this.

Okay, so let's say that it's all nature, no nurture so some people are designed to be unskilled toilet cleaners.

Therefore shouldn't the approach be more 'We're cutting benefits, which saves us X, and we're also raising taxes for the super rich too, so we also make X more.'

I don't have a problem with trying to get people off benefits, but I do think people should pay more of their fair wage, and this includes people that tax dodge/avoid, rather than just picking on the lazy people who contribute largely nothing to the economy.

It's just playing on the working classes to hate the under class by reiterating that they're lazy, it's not beneficial for an austerity based Government.

 

[Raven]

Its partly nature and its partly nurture. Nature that some people are just not very bright and nurture that society not only expects greatness from everyone but suggests everyone is capable of it. People's expectations of life are too high and when they inevitably end up on some sink estate, they give up. Or due to society give up from the start. Generations of spongers.

All the not so bright kids at school went on to do manual work "in my day" some are doing very nicely as tradesmen now, a group that we have a shortage of.

Schools are forced to get kids through academic exams and ignore manual trades.

 

[Scouse]

Either way - we shouldn't structure our society in a way that people are relegated to miserable scrapheap lives.

 

[Job]

People are not useless, they are just driven and savvy enough to position themselves into jobs that have been elevated far beyond their worth.
Crane drivers earn more than surgeons, but it's still seen as a working class job for a guy with a tattoo, many working class people in seemingly 'low class' dirty jobs earn as much as middle class management and in my view are far more useful to the world.
My old boss was on about 40K, because he was at the bottom of his ladder, he worked like a slave to prove himself, we totted up the hours he admitted to work and he was on about 10 quid an hour.

 

[Job]

Anyway came to post this, does not inspire confidence in Rio Olympic building quality.
BREAKING NEWS: Rio de Janeiro cycleway collapses into sea months before Olympics

 

[Job]

Modded GTAV PC screenshots,
delicious.


View: http://m.imgur.com/a/ECBT9

 

[Gwadien]

Its partly nature and its partly nurture. Nature that some people are just not very bright and nurture that society not only expects greatness from everyone but suggests everyone is capable of it. People's expectations of life are too high and when they inevitably end up on some sink estate, they give up. Or due to society give up from the start. Generations of spongers.

All the not so bright kids at school went on to do manual work "in my day" some are doing very nicely as tradesmen now, a group that we have a shortage of.

Schools are forced to get kids through academic exams and ignore manual trades.

I'd largely disagree, I went to a school where the vast majority of people were from 'sink estates' and a lot of them are doing pretty well for themselves in manual trades, earning quite a bit of money.

The problem is that this only really works for a minority, same case for working at supermarkets and stuff.

You need to remember that the world has also moved on since you were at school, I'd imagine a lot of people were gearing up to go into the 'local industries' which don't really exist any more, besides, people who dole scrounge are still a very small minority, and it's clear the system is broken if the scroungers are living a better life than people that are working full time, I don't think the answer is to drastically cut benefits and such, because people do rely on benefits, even when they are working, they simply do not earn enough in a job - which is why the living wage is quite a positive thing, although employers are still pretty resistant to it.

 

[Raven]

I actually think the living wage should be higher. I also think all cash benefits should be scrapped and replaced with vouchers for food, clothing, rent and utility bills.

 

[Gwadien]

I actually think the living wage should be higher. I also think all cash benefits should be scrapped and replaced with vouchers for food, clothing, rent and utility bills.

Aren't you one of the people that regularly complains about nanny states?

 

[Raven]

No, not really. I am all for privacy and being allowed to do what I like with the money I have earned but I don't mind the government sorting out people unwilling or unable to look after themselves. Why should the country fund a layabout's booze and fag habits? If they have money to smoke even 1 packet of cigs a day (at what, £9 a pack these days?) then they are either on the rob, getting too much in benefits or not eating/paying the bills.

I earn a decent wage and even I cannot afford to smoke these days.

 

[Gwadien]

No, not really. I am all for privacy and being allowed to do what I like with the money I have earned but I don't mind the government sorting out people unwilling or unable to look after themselves. Why should the country fund a layabout's booze and fag habits? If they have money to smoke even 1 packet of cigs a day (at what, £9 a pack these days?) then they are either on the rob, getting too much in benefits or not eating/paying the bills.

I earn a decent wage and even I cannot afford to smoke these days.

Because it's the right thing to do, you allow people to do with their capital, it's never been restricted, and it's a ridiculous idea for people to have even less of a capital, how about we turn large companies profits so they can only spend it on charities?

Look at Australia for why it shouldn't happen.

EDIT - If people do abuse it, and can't look after theirselves, then they get arrested.

 

[Raven]

It's not their capital though. It is money given to them because (presumably) they would be starving and homeless without it. It is not given to them so they can put their feet up and retire at 18. If people are capable then they should work. Since leaving school 21 years ago, I have only had 4 weeks out of work and even then, it was garden leave. I have no qualifications above a C GCSE in art, there is no excuse to be out of work.

and I know in the greater scheme of things social security is actually fairly low on things that cost tax payers money but it is still money that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Gwadien]

It's not their capital though. It is money given to them because (presumably) they would be starving and homeless without it. It is not given to them so they can put their feet up and retire at 18. If people are capable then they should work. Since leaving school 21 years ago, I have only had 4 weeks out of work and even then, it was garden leave. I have no qualifications above a C GCSE in art, there is no excuse to be out of work.

and I know in the greater scheme of things social security is actually fairly low on things that cost tax payers money but it is still money that could be better spent elsewhere.

So your complaint is with education, nothing to do with the welfare state at all really, you should complain about the education system, since that's the biggest budget (iirc)

 

[Moriath]

If everyone was born with the same abilities. If everyone was born with the same academic capability. Then everyone should have the same chance to be a top ex or whatever.

But they are not. Everyone should have the same opportunity to make the most of what they have. But to say that everyone canbe a top ex or be worth enough to be paid big bucks is wrong.

Some people are in nature less able to comprehend what is needed. Anyone who has the ability should no doubt be pushed to as far as they can go.

But to say that some people ambitions should not be stopped at flipping burgers is short sighted and elitist.

You just dont understand the human condition

 

[Ormorof]

The whole point of capitalism is that ambition is never curtailed

And @Raven what your post reads like to me is "i got my start when qualifications were less important, and have never experienced the welfare system at the bottom end"

And Moriath the key word is opportunity, people need to have the opportunity to do well, and in this case education is the great leveller and should be free to all, if they then fail due to laziness/not being clever then it is their own responsibility

Second key word - responsibility, you cant argue that you want people to work hard, take action on their own situation, act like sensible adults and then advocate that we take away their last shred of independence by nannying what they are allowed to buy

living purely on welfare is accepting your standard of living is going to be poor, the daily mail might claim they are all loving in palaces with fleets of bentleys but in reality getting money out of the state is like trying to bleed a stone, combine this with a system that actually blocks you from moving around to find work and you end up stuck, and for people in sink estates, well they rarely "end up" there they tend to start there, if they get out they dont come back

 

[Scouse]

If everyone was born with the same abilities. If everyone was born with the same academic capability. Then everyone should have the same chance to be a top ex or whatever.

But they are not.

Exactly.

And consigning those less capable to shit lives simply because of their capabilities, whilst rubbing in their face how good it is for the 'haves' is nothing short of mental torture of the helpless.

To then turn around like you and @Raven and call them feckless, to say that they should shut the fuck up and be happy with their meagre exsistence, that they should be happy having effectively no other choice than to burger flip or bog clean, even if they hate it, is nothing short of disgraceful IMO.

The whole economy needs reforming. It's nit fair to have such disparity. The so called 'talented' (but mostly actually the privileged) don't deserve what they get at the expense of everyone else.

The gap needs massively cutting.