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[fettoken]

"In a difference of opinion, pants always beats no pants"

 

[Bodhi]

Is now a good time to draw the old comparison between opinions and Arseholes?

Although as far as Job is concerned, I'm not sure which I want to see less.

 

[Moriath]

If so many had not gone to the ground without tickets the situation wouldnt have occured. But as they did the situation was handled badly and the gates should never have been opened.

Thats easy to see in hind sight. But when you make that call on the ground you dont have that.

The police didnt set out to make a bad situation worse. Nor did they wake up in the morning thinking how to kill 96 people. I am sure a lot of them had nightmares for years after.

I think it serves little point now trying to prosecute someone who was trying his best, which as it turned out wasnt good enough.

The lessons learned have been implemented and hopefully it will never happen again.

 

[Zarjazz]

So 30 years after the event and people are still coming out with the same tired old bullshit. It was not the fault of the supporters.

Job isn't people, I'm not sure he's even sentient.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

It's been on our local news every fucking night for the last two years. I can't see the point, they aren't coming back and pointing a finger at someone can't possibly help this long afterwards.
There's much better things to spend millions of taxpayers money on. Like helping people who are dieing, to live.

 

[Job]

Oh I see, it wan't the people pushing from the back, football field had suddenly developed the gravity field of a small planet and pulled the people into the fences.
You're letting emotion cloud your judgement, thousands of fans pushing and shoving through small places was the norm, that's how they behaved when excited and mostly drunk, which they were, just about everyone drinks before a game, the pubs by Anfield and Goodison park are overflowing into the streets every match day.
The crowds themselves have to take some blame.

 

[old.Osy]

I've had Job on ignore for quite some time - stop replying to him, makes the forum weird.

 

[Tom]

But when you make that call on the ground you dont have that.

Easy to see when your police control box overlooks the stand, with cameras showing the overcrowded pens before the exit gate was opened.

The police didnt set out to make a bad situation worse. Nor did they wake up in the morning thinking how to kill 96 people.

No, they just covered their incompetence by lying.

 

[Tom]

Oh I see, it wan't the people pushing from the back

No, they weren't pushing you massive prick. Try reading about how crowd dynamics work - that's if you're capable of reading.

 

[Moriath]

Easy to see when your police control box overlooks the stand, with cameras showing the overcrowded pens before the exit gate was opened.



No, they just covered their incompetence by lying.

Was talking about the incident itself not the subsequent cover up. Which of course was totally wrong. But anyone can be self righteous about the wrong decisions of others in hind sight.

 

[Tom]

Taylor Report:

Since pens 3 and 4 were full by 2.50 pm, the tunnel should have been closed off whether gate C was to be opened or not. ... t should have been clear in the control room where there was a view of the pens and of the crowd at the turnstiles that the tunnel had to be closed. If orders had been given to that effect when gate C was opened, the fans could have been directed to the empty areas of the wings and this disaster could still have been avoided. Failure to give that order was a blunder of the first magnitude

Duckinfield told the FA Chairman that supporters had forced the gate open. The reality was that he had ordered the gate be opened. They lied to cover their arses and have never been punished for it. Instead, the supporters' families have had to endure decades of the verbal shit that Job has been coming out with and it needs to stop. And the officers involved need to be charged, tried and hopefully imprisoned for being corrupt shits.

 

[Scouse]

Instead, the supporters' families have had to endure decades of the verbal shit

It's been terrible for them. I can't imagine how bad. I've not escaped the retarded (sometimes near violent) shit that utter clueless retards revel in spouting when "telling it how it is", so to have lost a family member and still have to have suffered it...

Fuck all of those cunts.

 

[Job]

Is this some closure for them, that someone opened a gate that only hindsight could have known the consequences, the gate was opened because it seemed the best thing to do at the time...the fate of the 96 was set in motion years before by penning in fans to prevent violent pitch battles, people are using the sensibilities of today to judge actions from a time when football had descended into crowd anarchy...they literally had to cage the supporters in to keep them apart.

 

[Scouse]

So gross negligence isn't a thing in your world?

Followed by fraud at the expense of the very people who you fucked over?


Your factual grasp of the whole thing is just some 'common sense' fantasy you've cooked up in your own head.

You're provably wrong @Job. As usual.

 

[fettoken]

What happened there, any how many were killed?

 

[Moriath]

It was a semi final of the fa cup and loads more people turned up and tried to get in than the ground could hold. A gate was opened on command of a police officer in charge and all outside tried to get in.

This was when there were fences around the pitch so when there were too many trying to get in the ones at the front got crushed.

96 died in the crush.

 

[Tom]

Is this some closure for them, that someone opened a gate that only hindsight could have known the consequences, the gate was opened because it seemed the best thing to do at the time...the fate of the 96 was set in motion years before by penning in fans to prevent violent pitch battles, people are using the sensibilities of today to judge actions from a time when football had descended into crowd anarchy...they literally had to cage the supporters in to keep them apart.

Two posts above your own. Two posts. You just don't read anything.

The gate was opened because a corrupt police officer didn't do his job properly.

 

[Moriath]

Two posts above your own. Two posts. You just don't read anything.

The gate was opened because a corrupt police officer didn't do his job properly.

Theres no proof he was corrupt at the time. But he and the force tried to cover it up after.

 

[old.user4556]

So David Cameron did have a stake in his dad's offshore trust. Gotta go surely?

 

[Raven]

Yes he should but he will be gone in a couple of months anyway.

 

[Moriath]

So David Cameron did have a stake in his dad's offshore trust. Gotta go surely?

He did? Wheres that said? Or it just released.

Interesting.

 

[old.user4556]

BBC breaking news.

 

[Tom]

Theres no proof he was corrupt at the time. But he and the force tried to cover it up after.

Right, he was a shining beacon of honesty and integrity who was so upset by what he saw that he became corrupt. Presumably the same thing happened to all the officers who modified their notes.

Of course.

 

[fettoken]

It was a semi final of the fa cup and loads more people turned up and tried to get in than the ground could hold. A gate was opened on command of a police officer in charge and all outside tried to get in.

This was when there were fences around the pitch so when there were too many trying to get in the ones at the front got crushed.

96 died in the crush.

Oh shit. That's sad. But wasn't it back in 89? Long time ago, time to move on tbh. I don't think you need to point fingers and put blame now. Mistakes are made, in this case it lead to a disaster, but still. A mistake.

 

[Scouse]

Theres no proof he was corrupt at the time. But he and the force tried to cover it up after.

Oh, so you're only corrupt until the proof exists?

Like a sort of schrodingers crime?

If a policeman shoots someone in the woods but averts his eyes and never sees the crime, and then lightning hits the spot and burns all the evidence away, did the crime ever really happen?

I see. Very clever!

 

[Tom]

Oh shit. That's sad. But wasn't it back in 89? Long time ago, time to move on tbh. I don't think you need to point fingers and put blame now. Mistakes are made, in this case it lead to a disaster, but still. A mistake.

It wasn't so much a mistake as blind incompetence and corruption on a massive scale, the perpetrators of which so far remain unpunished. And the families of those who died have had no justice.

 

[fettoken]

It wasn't so much a mistake as blind incompetence and corruption on a massive scale, the perpetrators of which so far remain unpunished. And the families of those who died have had no justice.

Oh, you think they opened the gates due to profit with no disregard for safety? If there's any suspicion of corruption and combination of blatant disregard for safety, then yes, someone needs to take responsibility. However, if it was a mistake from a single individual who made an 'honest' mistake, then i don't think it needs to be dragged up again.

But, i agree, thinking from the situation of a relative if someone close to you died, you'd want justice dispensed. Closure.

 

[Tom]

They opened the gate because the man in charge didn't do his job properly. And then he told people he didn't open the gate, that the fans did. And later on, he admitted the truth. Meanwhile, many of the police statements on that day's events were subsequently changed before being handed to the Taylor enquiry - and this happened on the watch of the man who lied about supporters opening the gate.

I can accept that people make mistakes, even that they're grossly incompetent. That's fine, but only if they accept it, take the punishment and move on. But this guy didn't do that.

The fault definitely lies with him. He made a colossal mistake, lied about it, then officers on his watch altered evidence and lied to an enquiry set up to establish what happened. Fuck him, he needs to be dragged to court and tried for what he did.

 

[fettoken]

 

[BloodOmen]