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[old.Tohtori]

Wondering which way to go with a game design i've got pretty much finalised. Either A: sell it to a publisher for a deal that if it goes to production i get X sum of cash. Lump sum, doesn't have to be published, get credit for original concept etc. Con there is that it might not see the light of day. Or B: try and get a freelance crew together and make it, then greenlight it/get a publishing deal. No quarantees there.

 

[Chilly]

Wondering which way to go with a game design i've got pretty much finalised. Either A: sell it to a publisher for a deal that if it goes to production i get X sum of cash. Lump sum, doesn't have to be published, get credit for original concept etc. Con there is that it might not see the light of day. Or B: try and get a freelance crew together and make it, then greenlight it/get a publishing deal. No quarantees there.

Get on Kickstarter?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Get on Kickstarter?

Kickstarter, if i remember correctly, requires a US guy to handle it and that brings a heapload of trust issues

It's just daydreamywonderings anyway, have to see if i get offers for it. If not then just see if there's guys out there willing to work for possibly nothing.

 

[Chilly]

Kickstarter, if i remember correctly, requires a US guy to handle it and that brings a heapload of trust issues

It's just daydreamywonderings anyway, have to see if i get offers for it. If not then just see if there's guys out there willing to work for possibly nothing.

OK well indigogo or whatever, I'm sure there's a Finn-friendly version somewhere. Stop daydreaming and do it

 

[Edmond]

Kickstarter, if i remember correctly, requires a US guy to handle it

Ask Cerb

 

[old.Tohtori]

OK well indigogo or whatever, I'm sure there's a Finn-friendly version somewhere. Stop daydreaming and do it

Heh yeah no worries, unless some pesky thing comes in the way i'll do everything i can to release aother crappy zombiegame on the world

Ask Cerb

Trusting FH members with money? That's like giving you the keys to the slutty virgins room and expect the merchandise to stay intact

 

[TdC]

Pro's - Fracking will generate cash for the treasury, create jobs, alleviate the need to pipe in gas from Russia.

Cons - It does cause minor earthquakes up to about mag 2.5 - risk - likely - effect low/none.

question mark over whether one of these minor earthquakes could spark a major one - risk very unlikey - effect high

cracks in the concrete column that lines the well would cause contamination to the water table - not a high risk but if we really end up with thousands of these wells its probably inevitable tbh. - effect moderate.

I am sympathetic to the idea of fracking but we need to plan for compensation schemes for people whose houses are damaged by the earthquakes and plan what we will do if there are leaks into the water table.

iirc fracking costs have been proven to outweigh the benifits

 

[TdC]

FH members slutty virgins

that's right.

 

[rynnor]

iirc fracking costs have been proven to outweigh the benifits

Proven where?

There's a big green agenda/industry agenda against this stuff - they fear it will reduce support for renewables and their pet solar projects so they make up stuff constantly against fracking - its a real PR war out there.

 

[TdC]

Proven where?
There's a big green agenda/industry agenda against this stuff - they fear it will reduce support for renewables and their pet solar projects so they make up stuff constantly against fracking - its a real PR war out there.

I recall I heard it on the NL news, which is why I used 'iirc'. That said, in order to create the gas releasing fractures in the first place high pressure liquid is used. I believe they call it ' brine' and it's made from all sorts of good stuff. tbh I wouldn't want to drink it.

 

[georgie]

Is someone asking you to? lol

 

[TdC]

indirectly, yes.

 

[Chilly]

indirectly, yes.

very indirectly

 

[rynnor]

I recall I heard it on the NL news, which is why I used 'iirc'. That said, in order to create the gas releasing fractures in the first place high pressure liquid is used. I believe they call it ' brine' and it's made from all sorts of good stuff. tbh I wouldn't want to drink it.

If you figure out where I'd be interested to see their case on it?

The fracking fluid is largely water plus additives to help break up the shale and to lubricate the process.

http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Fracking-fluid-components.png

Nothing really scary in there tbh.

 

[DaGaffer]

I recall I heard it on the NL news, which is why I used 'iirc'. That said, in order to create the gas releasing fractures in the first place high pressure liquid is used. I believe they call it ' brine' and it's made from all sorts of good stuff. tbh I wouldn't want to drink it.

The economics are based on the future price of oil, which will inevitably rise. Fracking wouldn't even have been considered a decade ago, but oil prices are only going one way long term.

Proven where?

There's a big green agenda/industry agenda against this stuff - they fear it will reduce support for renewables and their pet solar projects so they make up stuff constantly against fracking - its a real PR war out there.

And despite not being a "green" by any stretch of the imagination, I've got a certain amount of sympathy for that point of view, not so much about solar or even renewables, but I've said it before and I'll say it again; oil is too precious to burn in car engines. If fracking has any risk of bringing oil costs down enough to stop or slow the pace acceptance for nuclear, then I'm against it. I don't think it will, but short-termism rules in government and the markets.

 

[Aoami]

 

[rynnor]

If fracking has any risk of bringing oil costs down enough to stop or slow the pace acceptance for nuclear, then I'm against it. I don't think it will, but short-termism rules in government and the markets.

Aren't they fracking for gas not oil?

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Job]

Just driven to South beach Miami and there was about 6 cop cars blocking in a car going the other way...holy fook it was so grand theft auto.

 

[caLLous]

I was stood outside work (nightclub) on Broad Street in Birmingham about 5 years ago and a copper is standing there with a spike strip ready to deploy (concealed from the road). He waits a bit, receives the go-ahead and steps forward to slides it magnificently into the path of an old Escort. T'was awesome.

 

[TdC]

If you figure out where I'd be interested to see their case on it?

well, it was radio that I know for sure, because I usually play music in the car and that day I'd forgotten to bring a bunch of CDs.

Anyway, after some research: in the NL the 'brine' is required by law to be treated as chemical waste. They are researching it but there is no commercial exploitation at this time.
Although the NL and most shale locked gas resourses are proclaimed 'vast', there is an equally vast anit-fracking movement for some reason (surely there aren't that many tree-huggers?) .

I'm personally against it for the following reasons:
a) a couple years ago the oil and gas companies wouldn't be caught dead with fracking
b) the companies are the ones claiming fracking safety
c) yet another case of injecting shit in to the earth
d) you need lots and lots of wells of which eventually only a few will produce (aka you DON'T want windmills littering the landschape but gas wells are fine?)
e) DaGaffer's reasons. imo anything that slows us from nuc+sustainables in this day and ages is insane.

 

[Job]

Well yes they might be an eyesore..but at lrast they wil actuslly produce useful energy..all this contamination bolloks is a joke..have you seen the shit in the ground allready? If it leaks in well filter it out...you Londoners drink water that had poo on it a few days ago.

 

[Chilly]

Aren't they fracking for gas not oil?

Yeah, but the price of oil is propped up by the wider energy markets. If the gas price tanks, people will be much more likely to think about buying electric cars they can charge for fuck all via gas fired power stations.

 

[Scouse]

I'm personally against it

Me too.

Even if you completely discount the videos of some unfortunate people living near to wells setting fire to their tapwater, to say that there is no concern with groundwater contamination is disingenuous.

You can't perform this sort of industrial process with zero environmental impact and the scant evidence we have is already bearing that viewpoint out.

researchers from the University of Texas in Arlington found increased levels of arsenic in groundwater near fracking sites in the Barnett Shale, an area with around 16,000 active gas wells...samples from 100 private wells and found levels of metals, including arsenic, selenium and strontium that were way above the safe limits for drinking water

 

[TdC]

16000 wells eh? and private wells too? nice. good luck with that, Job. I'll take my chances in the liberal-socio workers paradise that is the Yurp

 

[rynnor]

Yeah, but the price of oil is propped up by the wider energy markets. If the gas price tanks, people will be much more likely to think about buying electric cars they can charge for fuck all via gas fired power stations.

Gas prices already tanked in the US a few years ago (because of fracking) - not seeing any fall in oil though?

 

[rynnor]

Me too.

Even if you completely discount the videos of some unfortunate people living near to wells setting fire to their tapwater, to say that there is no concern with groundwater contamination is disingenuous.

You can't perform this sort of industrial process with zero environmental impact and the scant evidence we have is already bearing that viewpoint out.

I read that but it could be subject to other interpretation - for fracking they need shales - that means fracking only occurs in certain areas with the right geology - that local geology could be the source of the arsenic. To be conclusive either way you would need groundwater analysis from before they started fracking.

 

[rynnor]

a) a couple years ago the oil and gas companies wouldn't be caught dead with fracking.

It is a new technique basically - conventional wisdom before fracking was that shale gas could not be commercially exploited.

 

[Raven]

I am still not convinced it is safe overall, regardless of contamination. Aren't they putting some fairly hefty holes into fault lines and whatnot?

 

[rynnor]

e) DaGaffer's reasons. imo anything that slows us from nuc+sustainables in this day and ages is insane.

In the UK we are unready to move to the nuclear + renewables mix (partly due to nimbys like the anti fracking nimbies who resist every renewable/nuclear development) so we are stuck with gas for the forseable future (at least 20 years - probably a lot longer).

Currently we don't produce enough to satisfy domestic demand so are forced to import a lot of it at extremely high prices from the rest of europe (mostly coming from Russia who are not exactly a reliable supplier).

Viewed this way fracking is a godsend.