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[Deebs]

Fuck me screws have gotten expensive. Click the link and scroll down to pack quantity

https://www.diy.com/departments/diall-yellow-passivated-carbon-steel-decking-screw-dia-6mm-l-40mm/3663602745655_BQ.prd

 

[Scouse]

If you were to ask me what the dems stood for, it would be hard to define.

Not really. They stand for the status quo - the state of the nation as it was under the last two democratic administrations.

Like Labour in the UK - they don't give a fuck that 50% of the population is destitute. By your own admission, they're ignoring the people they say they represent. But it's clear they don't.

They want to focus on what people say, how people think, what social norms society should have. They sell themselves as "tolerant" but they're only tolerant of their worldview and they're massively intolerant of those that think differently.

Same in the UK. Which is why they are sort of rumbled right now, and the electorate is turning towards a Trumpian asshat.

 

[Deebs]

Guess who just said this:

"Everyone loves my signature"

They were addressing a room full of military personnel. (clue: United Stupid Arseholes)

 

[Raven]

Fuck me screws have gotten expensive. Click the link and scroll down to pack quantity

https://www.diy.com/departments/diall-yellow-passivated-carbon-steel-decking-screw-dia-6mm-l-40mm/3663602745655_BQ.prd

Says 1 in stock near me, must be some sort of test

 

[Deebs]

Says 1 in stock near me, must be some sort of test

 

[SilverHood]

Not really. They stand for the status quo - the state of the nation as it was under the last two democratic administrations.

Like Labour in the UK - they don't give a fuck that 50% of the population is destitute. By your own admission, they're ignoring the people they say they represent. But it's clear they don't.

They want to focus on what people say, how people think, what social norms society should have. They sell themselves as "tolerant" but they're only tolerant of their worldview and they're massively intolerant of those that think differently.

Same in the UK. Which is why they are sort of rumbled right now, and the electorate is turning towards a Trumpian asshat.

Yes, I don't disagree. The problem is that the average GOP voter is extremely conservative and the average Dem is somewhere between very conservative and very liberal and they've managed to alienate both ends.

I joked to some friends the other day that we'd be better served by simply abandoning the democratic party and just having everyone run under the GOP banner.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes, I don't disagree. The problem is that the average GOP voter is extremely conservative and the average Dem is somewhere between very conservative and very liberal and they've managed to alienate both ends.

I joked to some friends the other day that we'd be better served by simply abandoning the democratic party and just having everyone run under the GOP banner.

I think that's something we'll see in both the UK and US, unity in the centre once sensible people wake up to the lunacy.

 

[SilverHood]

I think that's something we'll see in both the UK and US, unity in the centre once sensible people wake up to the lunacy.

The UK had a chance to prevent some of the lunacy by abolishing the first past the post voting system and moving to a proportional representation system. And labour balked because it would maybe hurt them short term. Now they're going to get demolished, and deservedly so. Most of the issues in the UK and US could be handled with a more representative democratic system, it's just a shame it will never change in the US.

 

[Scouse]

I think that's something we'll see in both the UK and US, unity in the centre once sensible people wake up to the lunacy.

How do you define lunacy, specifically?

I'd say that Farage's plan to revoke leave to stay is lunacy. But I wouldn't say stopping migration is lunacy. It's simply a choice. Especially given the levels we've had for 30 years.

I'm not pro-or-anti that argument. I can see both sides. But I see it as 100% legitimate. So what's "sensible" in your eyes?

 

[Gwadien]

How do you define lunacy, specifically?

I'd say that Farage's plan to revoke leave to stay is lunacy. But I wouldn't say stopping migration is lunacy. It's simply a choice. Especially given the levels we've had for 30 years.

I'm not pro-or-anti that argument. I can see both sides. But I see it as 100% legitimate. So what's "sensible" in your eyes?

I think you've illustrated the lunacy perfectly.

Nobody knows what they're going to do for the other 99% of being Government.

If you want an example of the 'other', see Trump today.

 

[Scouse]

I think you've illustrated the lunacy perfectly.

So, you're OK with the stopping legal migration because "enough is enough" or somesuch?

The phrase "enough is enough" isn't racist - it means "we've had enough migration and it's no longer working for us". Which is perfectly arguable from a strong evidence base.

 

[Gwadien]

'what about migration?'

'that's the point, it's lunacy that they're going to vote for them for a single issue'

'yeah but what about migration?'

 

[Embattle]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgC7TwuAHU

 

[Ormorof]

Middle east related

 

[Scouse]

'what about migration?'

'that's the point, it's lunacy that they're going to vote for them for a single issue'

'yeah but what about migration?'

But migration isn't a single issue is it?

It's access to GP's, house price inflation, wage deflation, rental property availability, social housing availability, NHS strain, cultural transformation.

That's just off the top of my head - and I didn't run out, just got bored of typing. All 8 of these are high up on voters minds and linked to legal migration.

So, where's the single issue?

Where's the lunacy? There is no other party saying they're going to do anything about it but Reform. Labour is going the other way - they're calling anyone who wants to address the root of the problem racist.

So again m8. Explain why they're lunatics, rather than the political parties that won't do anything about their problems?

 

[DaGaffer]

But migration isn't a single issue is it?

It's access to GP's, house price inflation, wage deflation, rental property availability, social housing availability, NHS strain, cultural transformation.

No, immigration panic is a distraction to avoid fixing all those things. All of population growth the UK has seen has been accounted for in long term forecasts available to every government in decades (centuries) so they know about housing needs, they know about wages they know about NHS demands, all of it, and choose to kick the problems down the road again and again. The UK government isn't the only one to do this (in Ireland the population isn't as large as it's supposed to be by their own forecasts so they've dodged a bullet), but they're one of the worst, and blaming the immigrants they mostly invited in in the first place is classic distraction. And given Reform are just the the cunts too thick to be Tories (Tories who made immigration numbers far worse after Brexit), what's the point in thinking that their talk about immigration isn't just the same performative shit every other political party in the UK has lied about over the last 30 years?

You have no worthwhile political parties and frankly Britain is fucked no matter which way you go. Immigrants are about 10th on your list of fuckedupness.

 

[Scouse]

Oh dear @Embattle:

‘Reverse Midas touch’: Starmer plan prompts collapse in support for digital IDs

Net public backing for scheme has fallen to -14% after prime minister’s announcement, according to polling

www.theguardian.com

I mean, fucker'll plough on anyway won't he...

 

[Deebs]

Oh dear @Embattle:

‘Reverse Midas touch’: Starmer plan prompts collapse in support for digital IDs

Net public backing for scheme has fallen to -14% after prime minister’s announcement, according to polling

www.theguardian.com

I mean, fucker'll plough on anyway won't he...

Oh dear

His personal approval ratings have fallen to a record low, with a recent survey suggesting he was now the most unpopular prime minister on record.

LOL.

 

[Ormorof]

Thays pretty impressive considering what went before

 

[Scouse]

I mean, he's spending his time calling the country racist, not doing anything he said he would, doing stuff nobody wanted, running Tory Austerity Mark 2.0, locking up peaceful innocents whilst supplying arms to baby killers and telling us we're all wrong.

Oh, and he's taking direction from war criminal Blair (and taking money and gifts from 'donors').

You vote Tory you expect this. You vote Labour, you've been betrayed.*


*but you were a fucking idiot if you didn't see it coming.

 

[Gwadien]

No, immigration panic is a distraction to avoid fixing all those things. All of population growth the UK has seen has been accounted for in long term forecasts available to every government in decades (centuries) so they know about housing needs, they know about wages they know about NHS demands, all of it, and choose to kick the problems down the road again and again. The UK government isn't the only one to do this (in Ireland the population isn't as large as it's supposed to be by their own forecasts so they've dodged a bullet), but they're one of the worst, and blaming the immigrants they mostly invited in in the first place is classic distraction. And given Reform are just the the cunts too thick to be Tories (Tories who made immigration numbers far worse after Brexit), what's the point in thinking that their talk about immigration isn't just the same performative shit every other political party in the UK has lied about over the last 30 years?

You have no worthwhile political parties and frankly Britain is fucked no matter which way you go. Immigrants are about 10th on your list of fuckedupness.

What the man who ran away to be with the potato people said.

If you wanna stop immigration you gotta stop this idea we need perpetual growth.

 

[DaGaffer]

What the man who ran away to be with the potato people said.

Best decision I ever made. No-one wants to live a country entirely on fire run by fuckwits. Irish politicians are also fuckwits but less dangerous and venal.

If you wanna stop immigration you gotta stop this idea we need perpetual growth.

Good luck with that.

 

[Gwadien]

Why do I feel like we're in a phase where this will be more common across the West?

No injuries after New York high-rise partially collapses, says city mayor - live updates

The ventilator shaft of the Bronx building collapsed at 08:00 local time after an explosion.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Embattle]

I see EA managed to get even worse:

EA-Saudi Arabia deal: Why Saudi-led consortium bought Electronic Arts for £55bn

An analysis of why a consortium led by Saudi Arabia has spent $55bn on gaming company Electronic Arts.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Gwadien]

I see EA managed to get even worse:

EA-Saudi Arabia deal: Why Saudi-led consortium bought Electronic Arts for £55bn

An analysis of why a consortium led by Saudi Arabia has spent $55bn on gaming company Electronic Arts.

www.bbc.co.uk

G-g-glen?

 

[Lamp]

Parents:

"We had no idea the hat was thrown by Michael Jackson to our daughter. She went to the concert and came back with a sweaty fedora, clutching it like treasure. Twenty five years ago she married and left home leaving the hat here. We didn't know what it was or why this smelly old hat was in her room. We recently needed to clear her room out as we were selling. So we gave it to our dog as a chew toy"

 

[Scouse]

You have no worthwhile political parties and frankly Britain is fucked no matter which way you go. Immigrants are about 10th on your list of fuckedupness.

I mean this is the main point I agree with. Lack of clear, quality, political choice. (IMO that's the result of a long-term dumbing down of our society (not planned, more natural consequences of our economics)). But regardless, it is what it is.

You are also right that successive governments haven't governed.

You say "good luck" to economic reform that you say isn't going to happen, and I think you're probably right. But we do have to face up to the world as it is presented to us right now.

And right now, due to a lack of governance we do have failing public services, inadequate housing, a creaking rental sector, wage depression, wholesale cultural change, yadda yadda yadda.

And this stuff too:

UK fifth-worst country in Europe for loss of green space to development

Exclusive: 1,680 football pitches of protected natural land in England, Wales and Northern Ireland lost in five years

www.theguardian.com

Now that alone - too many humans, right? That's an immigration fix.

Yes, we could have planned better and didn't - but we've had massive encouraged legal immigration that's materially changed not just the demographics but the physical population of the UK.

Thinking like that it seems eminently sensible to say "we're stopping all immigration until we fix our structural problems". And then have a national debate on how big a population we actually want in the UK.

 

[DaGaffer]

I mean this is the main point I agree with. Lack of clear, quality, political choice. (IMO that's the result of a long-term dumbing down of our society (not planned, more natural consequences of our economics)). But regardless, it is what it is.

You are also right that successive governments haven't governed.

You say "good luck" to economic reform that you say isn't going to happen, and I think you're probably right. But we do have to face up to the world as it is presented to us right now.

And right now, due to a lack of governance we do have failing public services, inadequate housing, a creaking rental sector, wage depression, wholesale cultural change, yadda yadda yadda.

And this stuff too:

UK fifth-worst country in Europe for loss of green space to development

Exclusive: 1,680 football pitches of protected natural land in England, Wales and Northern Ireland lost in five years

www.theguardian.com

Now that alone - too many humans, right? That's an immigration fix.

Yes, we could have planned better and didn't - but we've had massive encouraged legal immigration that's materially changed not just the demographics but the physical population of the UK.

Thinking like that it seems eminently sensible to say "we're stopping all immigration until we fix our structural problems". And then have a national debate on how big a population we actually want in the UK.

The UK is still mid-range amongst developed nations for immigration; about the same as France, lower than Germany, Australia, the US and Canada who are all doing better than the UK. UK is also mid-rank for "economically inactive". So the problems are elsewhere. Could it be that the UK is one of the least productive nations in the developed world perhaps?

 

[Scouse]

So, if we completely ignore the "we're terrible for loss of green space" - which a development problem related directly to the size of the population, lets look at our nearest neighbours:

Germany: Likely doing the best. They have the highest GDP per capita (12th in the world). They have a very different housing sector with the majority renting, not owning, and a lot of tenant rights (and they've invested in it over time - the UK hasn't). They are still grappling with migration debates and there's undoubted tension. But they have a federalised model that seems more resilient, though they're under significant strain at the moment (despite historical 'shame') and the AfD is facing state-level undemocratic pushback, but increasing levels of support. They've had the most migration, but they have a more even population distribution and a slower per-capita land shrinkage since 1997. - They've more space and better distribution of people, with an economy with a strong industrual base, in a better housing market. So it feels the "least full" and their problems aren't concentrated.

UK: Despite what you say, we have a competetive GDP (15th in the world). We've got more cultural flashpoints and we have a polarised, reactive identity-politics driven narrative. Our health sector is shafted - with lower historical and current real-term spend than France and Germany. Our housing sector is based around ownership and has been woefully under-invested in. We've by far the least "space per person" - and we have more people per square mile in major urban corridors and commuter belts. Our economy is service-based so immigration hit the poorest hardest in the UK - with almost the same level of migration as Germany.

France: By far and away the least productive, highest debt, least-growth country. They've had less than half the migration of Germany or the UK. Their cultural flashpoints are around islam, secularsm. They have a high level of social unrest and rioting and they have centralised rigidity. They're still better off on the "feeling" than the UK though.


And all of this still ignores the fact that UK has underinvested in health, housing and the NHS. That the UK working class gets hit harder by immigration than in France or Germany. Germany has very strong collective bargaining. France has stronger unions and wage protections which cushion wage erosion from unskilled workers. The UK has a flexible labour market and weak collective barganing, and a massive concentration of migrants in high-demand urban labour markets.


I'm against Farage - we shouldn't be cancelling leave to remain. That would shame us. But to allow more legal migration? That's completely debatable and arguably really stupid given our existing structural issues. But we're not allowed that debate without being called racist.

 

[Tom]

If we don't want more migration then we need more babies, because there's about to be an awful lot of boomers who'll soon discover that their love for Farage will mean there's nobody to change their nappies.