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[Scouse]

So. Expensive Labour policy to introduce "teaching assistants" in 2004, has predictable results:

Teaching assistants routinely cover lessons in England and Wales, survey finds

Exclusive: Research shows extent to which schools are struggling to provide qualified teachers for every class

www.theguardian.com

If we sacked all the teaching assistants, could we afford teachers?

 

[Scouse]

Is it because capitalism is bad by any chance?

Nope.

 

[MYstIC G]

So. Expensive Labour policy to introduce "teaching assistants" in 2004, has predictable results:

Teaching assistants routinely cover lessons in England and Wales, survey finds

Exclusive: Research shows extent to which schools are struggling to provide qualified teachers for every class

www.theguardian.com

If we sacked all the teaching assistants, could we afford teachers?

No, because teachers are more expensive and there isn't a teacher just sitting there in the wings for every assistant.

The solve would be train them up and transfer the positions over time.

 

[Scouse]

The solve would be train them up and transfer the positions over time.

It's going to sound harsh - but lower IQ teachers ain't what kids need. Evidence?

the pupils who received most support from TAs made the least progress in science, maths and English compared with pupils who received little or no TA support – even after controlling for pupil characteristics likely to be the reason for being allocated extra support, such as special educational needs

Exposure to teachers - people who probably have a stronger mind than the average kid - is what gives benefits to kids.

 

[MYstIC G]

It's going to sound harsh - but lower IQ teachers ain't what kids need. Evidence?



Exposure to teachers - people who probably have a stronger mind than the average kid - is what gives benefits to kids.

Of them having lower IQ's? You provide it as that's your claim.

That's exactly my point, train more people to be teachers, starting with the ones already in the school system that you advocate need swapping out.

Unless teachers grow on trees? Though I must have missed that class at school.

 

[Ormorof]

Only people that become teachers these days are the ones who feel it's a calling, the rest end up leaving the profession, long hours, thankless tasks, feckless parents, violence, measly paycheck.

 

[Scouse]

Unless teachers grow on trees? Though I must have missed that class at school.

Training can't overcome nature. If you've only just managed to scrape through a pass in english and maths you ain't 'the right stuff'.

There's 281,000 full time teaching assistants (plus part-timers) in the UK.

Sack 'em all - use those wages to make teaching salaries not shit.

Bang. More people of the right caliber will choose the job.

 

[MYstIC G]

Training can't overcome nature. If you've only just managed to scrape through a pass in english and maths you ain't 'the right stuff'.

There's 281,000 full time teaching assistants (plus part-timers) in the UK.

Sack 'em all - use those wages to make teaching salaries not shit.

Bang. More people of the right caliber will choose the job.

Evidence

 

[Ormorof]

With a government that couldn't find its own arse with a map all this would achieve is even less people to teach kids, can't magic teachers out of thin air, especially not with the measly increases it would gain, people don't become teachers for money.

 

[Scouse]

Evidence

For what, exactly?

If you're thick, you're thick. Some jobs you aren't capable of. This is utterly uncontroversial. What do you think our entire childhood is based around? - we get GCSE's / A-Levels / Degrees after years of training - that training being called "school". Those who don't make it, by and large, aren't capable of it.

Average IQ for a teacher is 110-120. The average IQ of a teaching assistant looks to be less than 100 - which is unsurprising since the basic requirement is to be able to read / write and do basic arithmetic. But what isn't in their job description is teaching kids about concepts they've demonstrated they don't have a grasp of themselves.

With a government that couldn't find its own arse with a map all this would achieve is even less people to teach kids, can't magic teachers out of thin air, especially not with the measly increases it would gain, people don't become teachers for money.

You said "measly paycheck". And you were right.

When faced with a choice of jobs - people discount teaching because there's better money elsewhere. If you can add £5k on to each and every teacher's job (and still make a massive saving) then more people would make that choice.

Teaching asstants earn (shit) between 21>24k. At 21k that means we've got at least £5.9 billion pounds to make teaching a much better paid profession. That is more than ten grand each for the 570,000 teachers in the UK. Or another 118,000 teachers at 50 grand each.

Unless teachers grow on trees? Though I must have missed that class at school.

Nope. Teachers don't grow on trees - but they're above-average IQ people who know they can get paid better elsewhere. If we increase teacher pay then we can attract and retain more of them.

And if we get rid of teaching assistants we make outcomes better for the kids - because teaching assistants hold them back.

 

[MYstIC G]

For what, exactly?

If you're thick, you're thick. Some jobs you aren't capable of. This is utterly uncontroversial. What do you think our entire childhood is based around? - we get GCSE's / A-Levels / Degrees after years of training - that training being called "school". Those who don't make it, by and large, aren't capable of it.

Average IQ for a teacher is 110-120. The average IQ of a teaching assistant looks to be less than 100 - which is unsurprising since the basic requirement is to be able to read / write and do basic arithmetic. But what isn't in their job description is teaching kids about concepts they've demonstrated they don't have a grasp of themselves.


You said "measly paycheck". And you were right.

When faced with a choice of jobs - people discount teaching because there's better money elsewhere. If you can add £5k on to each and every teacher's job (and still make a massive saving) then more people would make that choice.

We don't want sub-normal IQ people "teaching" our kids. The evidence shows it makes them worse, not better.

Teaching asstants earn (shit) between 21>24k. At 21k that means we've got at least £5.9 billion pounds to make teaching a much better paid profession. That is more than ten grand each for the 570,000 teachers in the UK. Or another 118,000 teachers at 50 grand each.


Nope. Teachers don't grow on trees - but they're above-average IQ people who know they can get paid better elsewhere. If we increase teacher pay then we can attract more of them.

And if we get rid of teaching assistants we make outcomes better for the kids - because teaching assistants hold them back.

Evidence

 

[Scouse]

Evidence

For which bit please. I said a lot.

If you say "all of it" - then I've already provided links and figures so I'll take your ask as disingenuous.

 

[Syri]

Scouse, you just said all teaching assistants are thick, but also that they're ending up doing the teaching anyway? can't be THAT thick then...
And what is it to you? Did a teaching assistant do something to you in the past? Why can't you just leave it be, and be happy that they've found a place they can work, and put the blame for the teaching situation where it really lies. The government have under-funded education, and taking pay from teaching assistants is NOT the way to solve it, it would only make the situation worse as you'd still have a lack of teachers, and nobody to help when things get tight. Why not take pay from MPs, who've had pay rise after pay rise far higher than any other public sector worker? Surely that would be a better target?

 

[Scouse]

Scouse, you just said all teaching assistants are thick, but also that they're ending up doing the teaching anyway? can't be THAT thick then...

Jeesus - follow the thread.

• Way back when Labour introduced teaching assistants there was uproar when people said these unqualified people would end up teaching. (Labour denied it, but it was obvious)
• Exactly that has happened. Surprise surprise.
• Evidence shows that being taught by teaching assistants makes kids grades drop <<<< Are you so butthurt that I've said "sack them" that you don't care about this?

taking pay from teaching assistants is NOT the way to solve it

No. Saving 5.9 billion (at least) by getting rid of pointless counterproductive teaching assistants and giving it to QUALIFIED TEACHERS, using it to retain teachers and hiring more - by making teaching pay better - IS.

The presence of teaching assistants is the problem. Get shot, it's a failed experiment. Invest that cash in teachers.

 

[Wij]

Not sure if deliberately grifting all the time or completely batshit:


View: https://twitter.com/themattdimitri/status/1784174734219100638?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Wij]

Basically the same as Right Said Fred. What a strange world we inhabit.


View: https://twitter.com/shayan86/status/1784191382405410997?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Scouse]

I'm thinking of buying a defib. We live in the middle of nowhere and if heart attacks are a thing, you're pretty much a guaranteed goner.

 

[Raven]

I'm thinking of buying a defib. We live in the middle of nowhere and if heart attacks are a thing, you're pretty much a guaranteed goner.

Firms will put one in for you, and it goes on a map. Not sure how it works with the public putting them in, but when I was on the PC, I don't remember having to get permission, except for the owners of the building (us).

 

[Tom]

I considered teaching once, and was thinking of doing it as a backup career. Then the OU course fees tripled overnight and I thought fuck that. And looking at what they're paid now, and the workload, and the fact that council job websites are full of teaching positions, leads me to think that right now it's a shit career choice.

Teachers aren't paid nearly enough for the shit they have to deal with. We say we need to pay MPs 85 grand a year to "attract the best", fuck that, we should be paying that to teachers.

 

[Raven]

3 of my siblings/step siblings and my wife are teachers. All are planning exits.

It's a shit profession.

 

[Scouse]

Needs to pay more.

Needs stability.

They need a free route to get the desired outcomes.

 

[Scouse]

So they're axing an overperforming teacher recruitment scheme for older people who want to leave their jobs and teach.

Setup by this lass who has an economics degree and was a well-paid journalist at the financial times for many years. Someone with life experience, so potentially the type of person (and people) we want teaching our kids.

(She's also got plenty to say about why young 'uns leave the profession...)

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

Truss-level fuckups eh?

Thames Water collapse could trigger Truss-style borrowing crisis, Whitehall officials fear

Exclusive: Concerns over effect on UK’s finances lead officials to believe utility should be renationalised before general election

www.theguardian.com

 

[BloodOmen]

Nice to see the scumbag Tories are trying to push another load of mental health sufferers over the edge on their way out of power... utterly fucking shameful.

"People with 'mild' mental health problems will be told to get therapy and get back to work under disability benefit cash clampdown targeting 3.5million as minister says some are just struggling with the 'ups and downs of life'"

Imagine telling a genuine mental health sufferer that.

 

[Scouse]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkAJtRiOAxk

 

[TdC]

You underestimate the the cinema going public, Scouse

 

[Raven]

VR porn though.

 

[Zarjazz]

VR porn though.

You can always rely on porn to push the frontiers of technology forward.

 

[Scouse]

To be fair though, he makes the point that the only thing that's changed (a bit) is the tech.