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Scouse

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I mean jeezus christ - debt bondage? We're all fucking slaves. It's just a question of how much.

Does it really take 20 years to build a house if you do it yourself? Even with the cost of materials? Or are we just lying to ourselves that we're not wage slaves?

And if nearly everyone in the country is a wage slave why not slavery of a different nature? Everyone's doing what they can - and if "what they can" is fuck other people over then a lot of people are going to choose that.

But talk about "systemic change" and you're a fucking commie. :eek:
 

Scouse

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Bodhi

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Dunno how old you are but I'm 50 and the difference in wildlife from my childhood to now is pretty big. There were dragonflies everywhere when I grew up, mostly because there were mill lodges all over the place. They've all been filled in and houses built there, so no more dragonflies. Toads were all over the place, I'm not kidding when I say I could just go and get a toad whenever I liked and play around with it in a bucket. You couldn't move for the things. Nowadays I bet your average town/city kid wouldn't know what frogspawn is.

We're really not very good at preserving wildlife. Everything has to look pretty. The local municipal golf course failed a few years back, and now it looks fucking amazing - because it's just been left alone. It's just a big old lazy meadow now, with trees here and there. It floods when it rains. There are no sealed paths. It's great.

Strange, I was in Cheshire on Sunday and saw shitloads of dragonflies, amphibious creatures, birds, the whole range of wildlife.

It was great to see - as I walked around a still active golf course. It's one of the joys of the game, being out with a couple of friends, a few beers, the golf clubs and all the various bits of wildlife around. The one we played Sunday was even more impressive, as they'd designated several areas as "conservation areas", meaning if your ball went in there you didn't go to get it back.

Only thing which would threaten the wildlife I saw were a couple of domestic cats which had wandered over from the housing estate across the road.
 

Scouse

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Thank fuck we've scienced the shit out of animal and plant populations - some of the easiest science to do - regular counting exercises and recording over time. That way we don't have to rely on the anecdotal evidence of golfers.

Thank. Fuck.
 

Raven

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A golf course is a far better place for wildlife than yet another fucking housing estate, which is all any of them would become.

Better neither, but if we can't stop breeding then tough.
 

Tom

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Aye sounds awful having more wide open green spaces. No idea how you'd sleep at night.

Wide open green spaces preserved for a minority. Also so well trimmed that they're basically just ecological deserts with some scruffy bits around the edges.
 

Bodhi

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Thank fuck we've scienced the shit out of animal and plant populations - some of the easiest science to do - regular counting exercises and recording over time. That way we don't have to rely on the anecdotal evidence of golfers.

Thank. Fuck.

I was just countering an anecdote from a cyclist which didn't seem to tally up with my (very recent) experience.

*shrugs*
 

Bodhi

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Wide open green spaces preserved for a minority. Also so well trimmed that they're basically just ecological deserts with some scruffy bits around the edges.

It would probably just be easier if you posted that you knew very little about golf and saved youself the bother tbh.

For instance the municipal course near you that closed which you were getting excited about - anyone could have played on that. No restrictions on anything - dress, income, you name it - just turn up and play, even if you've never played the game before. Now that's closed they'll either have to find another municipal further away, or get a Green Fee at a private club.

There are also plenty of courses out there people are more than free to roam over if they so choose. There's a small little known municipal in Scotland called The Old Course, St Andrews, with paths to the beach all over it and which becomes a wide open space anyone can use on a Sunday.

My guess is you're still working on the outdated concept that only rich people play it, which hasn't been the case for years.
 

Tom

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It would probably just be easier if you posted that you knew very little about golf and saved youself the bother tbh.

For instance the municipal course near you that closed which you were getting excited about - anyone could have played on that. No restrictions on anything - dress, income, you name it - just turn up and play, even if you've never played the game before. Now that's closed they'll either have to find another municipal further away, or get a Green Fee at a private club.

There are also plenty of courses out there people are more than free to roam over if they so choose. There's a small little known municipal in Scotland called The Old Course, St Andrews, with paths to the beach all over it and which becomes a wide open space anyone can use on a Sunday.

My guess is you're still working on the outdated concept that only rich people play it, which hasn't been the case for years.

But now that it's closed, anybody can use that space, whenever they like. The local Tories attempted to change the designation so they could build houses on it, everyone kicked off, and they got booted out of the council over it. There's another golf course on the other side of the road for anyone who wants to play bat and ball.

In fact now I think about it, there's another golf course about half a mile from that one too, in the other direction. There's one in the next town about 1.5 miles away, and one over the canal in Salford, about 2 miles away. There are loads of golf clubs around here.
 

Gwadien

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It would probably just be easier if you posted that you knew very little about golf and saved youself the bother tbh.

For instance the municipal course near you that closed which you were getting excited about - anyone could have played on that. No restrictions on anything - dress, income, you name it - just turn up and play, even if you've never played the game before. Now that's closed they'll either have to find another municipal further away, or get a Green Fee at a private club.

There are also plenty of courses out there people are more than free to roam over if they so choose. There's a small little known municipal in Scotland called The Old Course, St Andrews, with paths to the beach all over it and which becomes a wide open space anyone can use on a Sunday.

My guess is you're still working on the outdated concept that only rich people play it, which hasn't been the case for years.

Yano this 'big open green space' thing, it isn't good for wildlife...

Sure, it's better than being a car park, but you're kidding yourself if you actually think golf courses are good for nature..

I'd probably it's even worse better the golf course, especially in terms of keeping it 'perfect'
 

Bodhi

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Yano this 'big open green space' thing, it isn't good for wildlife...

Sure, it's better than being a car park, but you're kidding yourself if you actually think golf courses are good for nature..

I'd probably it's even worse better the golf course, especially in terms of keeping it 'perfect'

Having played golf around the world - I can confirm this is bullshit.
 

Scouse

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Also so well trimmed that they're basically just ecological deserts with some scruffy bits around the edges.
100%.
Having played golf around the world - I can confirm this is bullshit.
I refer the honourable gentlemen to my answer given earlier about thanking "fuck" that we don't base science on golfer's anecdotes.

They are indeed not great for wildlife - and barring Raven's point that they would be worse for wildlife if they were houses - @Tom's point about his municipal course being left for nature (and open access) is true.

Pine forests are another. We're surrounded by them here. They're fucking industrial deserts - there's barely any life in them. The deciduous ancient woodland that we cut down to make way for the pine, however? Now that's the sort of shit that people come hundreds of miles to spend time in - for good reason.
 

Bodhi

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100%.

I refer the honourable gentlemen to my answer given earlier about thanking "fuck" that we don't base science on golfer's anecdotes.

They are indeed not great for wildlife - and barring Raven's point that they would be worse for wildlife if they were houses - @Tom's point about his municipal course being left for nature (and open access) is true.

Pine forests are another. We're surrounded by them here. They're fucking industrial deserts - there's barely any life in them. The deciduous ancient woodland that we cut down to make way for the pine, however? Now that's the sort of shit that people come hundreds of miles to spend time in - for good reason.

Stop press: man relies on anecdotes as part of an anecdotal conversation.

Weather at 11.

However I'm willing to bet I've seen a lot more varied wildlife chasing a ball round a field than you have going down a mountain on a bike.
 

Scouse

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Mate - a man who continues to rely on anecdote when hard evidence has been presented ... meh, finish your own sentence...

I'd take that bet btw. But I have too much fun to stop and take pics of all the flora and fauna in my local ancient woodlands. :)
 

Scouse

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Does catching up in later life help?
Not really - you can't "catch up" on innate intelligence can you.

The UK has the lowest rate of breastfeeding mothers in Europe. Maybe that's why reams of us are so incredibly thick. 4 points on IQ is noticeable in social interactions. It's not to be sniffed at.

Health, intelligence, long-term better outcomes in life.

What should we do? Well, for me - we should ban baby formula. Simple.
 

DaGaffer

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Not really - you can't "catch up" on innate intelligence can you.

The UK has the lowest rate of breastfeeding mothers in Europe. Maybe that's why reams of us are so incredibly thick. 4 points on IQ is noticeable in social interactions. It's not to be sniffed at.

Health, intelligence, long-term better outcomes in life.

What should we do? Well, for me - we should ban baby formula. Simple.

I think you missed the joke...
 

DaGaffer

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What should we do? Well, for me - we should ban baby formula. Simple.

Spoken like a man who's never had kids. Unless you're prepared to give mothers two years off with full pay and guarantee their old role and missed pay increments....that shit ain't happening.

Most mothers of my acquaintance breast fed for as long as they could but its way more complicated than it looks; mastitis (10% of mothers), colic, (15% of babies), mothers who can't breastfeed at all, time to express (fucking ages) night feeds, etc. etc. it all has an impact, and the poorer you are, the less time you have for breastfeeding.

Besides, all the diesel particulates, lead paint and Mercury in the water has lowered everyone's IQ anyway; breastmilk barely gets a look in.
 

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