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[Wij]

Whatever bullshit reasons Hitler came up with to do it is irrelevant now.

That's really not how history works.

Whoopie is right - it's not about race - it's white humans coming up with "bullshit," reasons.

It can be both.

But even if I concede that it was at the time, NOW we know better. Now we know Whoopie is technically correct - and our discussions on the subject should now reflect actual reality.

What we know now cannot logically be the cause of something in the past.

But Israel doesn't want actual reality to be part of the conversation because it undermines their political aims.

What Isreal wants logically can have no bearing on what caused the holocaust. Stick to the point.

That is completely clear.

It is not.

 

[Gwadien]

What Isreal wants logically can have no bearing on what caused the holocaust. Stick to the point.

Even though Israel*'s existence is purely because of the Holocaust...

 

[Wij]

Even though Israel*'s existence is purely because of the Holocaust...

Future doesn't affect past.

 

[Gwadien]

Sure, but the future does affect history.

 

[Raven]

Only when we mistakenly assert modern day ideas and ideals on it.

 

[Gwadien]

Only when we mistakenly assert modern day ideas and ideals on it.

I think we live in a time where history is probably the least tainted by ideals/power at the time to be quite frank with you good sir.

That's exactly why I raised my eyebrows at this and at the Anne Frank thing; introducing a new perspective in history isn't a bad thing, it just needs to be properly dismantled before ridiculed, not immediately dismissed because it's a bit edgy.

 

[Aoami]

Herodotus, Livy, Schama, Beard, Whoopi Goldberg

 

[Scouse]

That's really not how history works.

History is irrelevant to this argument. The argument is whether Whoopie Goldberg was right to say, "sorry, but it was really about two white groups killing each other".

If we now know that it's not about race - and we do, scientifically, know that it's white western europeans killing white western europeans - then it wasn't actually about race.

Hitler may have been a race baiter. He may have genuinely believed that jews were another race. He may have been a Trump-like opportunist setting two sets of people together using race as his excuse to win over a malleable population (my preferred opinion is this). Either way - it doesn't matter - because Whoopie Goldberg said "it's not about race, it's about white people killing each other" for <insert whatever bullshit reason>.

The whatever bullshit reason Hitler used isn't important (and history (and Hitler) are unreliable witnesses). What actually happened is important - and Whoopie nailed it.

It can be both

Erm. How's that work then?

It was either white people killing each other (correct) or people from different races killing each other (incorrect).

Justification doesn't matter. Reality is the only thing that matters.

"He's a different race - burn him!"
"Erm, no he's not. You're just a cunt with a beef against jews using "race" as an argument to whip up enough popular support to enable you to pop them in ovens".

What we know now cannot logically be the cause of something in the past.

May be beating a drum here - but who cares what caused the holocaust? If it was caused by aliens invading Hitlers mind and saying "kill jews - they're a different race" - it doesn't matter.

It wasn't about race. It was the extermination of one set of white people by another set of white people for <bullshit reasons>.

Science.

What Isreal wants logically can have no bearing on what caused the holocaust. Stick to the point.

You please stick to the point - the point is that Whoopie is correct and that a pile of accusations of antisemitism have been fired at her (and the channel no doubt). But her technical analysis was 100% correct.

This discussion is about whether Whoopie said "the right thing". And she did.

 

[Scouse]

Interesting that you say that because I didn't really interpret what he said as a joke

Maybe he should be sacked based on your interpretation of things then eh?

 

[Aoami]

Maybe he should be sacked based on your interpretation of things then eh?

I dont think he would be the one getting sacked based on my interpretation of what he said

 

[Raven]

I just ate an entire packet of Tuc biscuits in one sitting.

 

[Aoami]

I just ate an entire packet of Tuc biscuits in one sitting.

Jesus Chris, the salt! Not sure I could manage that

 

[Raven]

Ive got 2ltr of orange pop to wash it down with, zero ofc.

 

[Scouse]

I dont think he would be the one getting sacked based on my interpretation of what he said

Please to be clarifying your interpretation of " Dem jews, eh? " in it's context - as you said it's not a joke, so I don't understand what your interpretation is.

 

[Wij]

The argument is whether Whoopie Goldberg was right to say, "sorry, but it was really about two white groups killing each other".

And here’s where you make your mistake. What something was about is not the same thing as what something was.

The latter could be a purely factual description of the events with no motive. The former looks for the reasons things occurred. History is not a discipline confined to the one thing.

If she had said ‘sorry, but it was two white groups killing each other’ that might have been correct.

She did not say that and to say it was ‘about’ two white groups killing each other implies that that was the motivation or reason. Which it wasn’t.

And I’m not having a go at her. She probably just got the wording slightly wrong. And apologised for that.

When you look at the reasons for the holocaust you can’t ignore racism. Even if it is misplaced or factually nonsensical. It was still there. Millions of people can do things for reasons that make no sense scientifically.

 

[Scouse]

And here’s where you make your mistake. What something was about is not the same thing as what something was.

Nah. I don't think that I've made any mistake here. Don't buy it.

She made a calm and clear assessment of what the actual reality on the ground was. "It was about THIS". Or "it was THIS" - same thing. Not sufficiently distinguisable semantically to support your argument.

She was clearly and patently making an assertion of the actual reality.

And she was right.

 

[Wij]

Not the same thing and you can’t force people to take the meaning from phrases that you do.

Hence she issued a correction. Reasons for things are not the same as those things. Hence the need for a clarification.

 

[Scouse]

Lets look at it one last time:

View: https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1488237656240803841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1488237656240803841%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollywoodreporter.com%2Ftv%2Ftv-news%2Fwhoopi-goldberg-the-view-holocaust-comment-draws-criticism-1235084661%2F

It's not about race. It's NOT about race. It's about "man's inhumanity to man"

It's a clear statement about what the actual reality is. It's very clear what she's saying there - what the point she's trying to make is (before the music starts up to shut her up).

It's only really about race - it CAN only really be about race - if jews are a race.

And they're not.

Are they?

 

[Scouse]

Regardless. I'm thinking of getting a baby cow or two.

I very much like Welsh Black.

Is this a giant mistake when I've got a 9-5 and don't mind going away at weekends?

I mean, I guess I can eat them if it really doesn't work out.

 

[Gwadien]

Regardless. I'm thinking of getting a baby cow or two.

I very much like Welsh Black.

Is this a giant mistake when I've got a 9-5 and don't mind going away at weekends?

I mean, I guess I can eat them if it really doesn't work out.

What about your carbon footprint?!?!

 

[Scouse]

What about your carbon footprint?!?!

It's more about animal welfare for me in this case but there are significant carbon savings to be made.

I'm not going to not eat meat. I like it too much. But some of the biggest carboon savings can be made by grass-fed beef, naturally and organically reared without long food chains and with effectively zero food miles. I'd also know that I'd be getting the best-kept animals who've had the best lives and the best conditions possible.

So I won't be buying beef from tesco, shipped from Argentina, reared to whatever standard Tesco deems OK, likely not really fed on actual grass, on actual grazing land - and likely on land that has been repurposed for beef farming (which comes with it's own costs).

So yeah, I could become veggie. But ethically I decided long ago that if I'm going to continue to eat meat then I should really only be able to if I was prepared to do the dirty work myself. So for me - welfare, ethics and maximal carbon savings on a still meat-based diet.



In other news - had my first two eggs out of my guinea fowl today.

Spoiler

Looks like one of @Wij's shits:

Must have been a shock to her - I guess your first egg's a tight one. And she didn't know not to drop it from height - so dropped it off her perch, hence the crack.

The other one was laid on the drive and left. Guineas are dumb as fuck. And notoriously bad mothers!

 

[Tom]

If you get a cow you have to shampoo it and blow dry it and show us the results.

Also teach it to play ball like that amazing cow video:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx-CxuAeVPo

 

[old.Osy]

Apple sues Ukrainian director over comedy film 'Apple-Man' - 9to5Mac

Apple has filed a lawsuit against Ukrainian indie film director Vasyl Moskalenko, who wrote the comedy film titled 'Apple-Man.'

9to5mac.com

 

[Scouse]

Also teach it to play ball like that amazing cow video

HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO EAT THAT?

 

[Tom]

It makes me seriously question my meat eating. I still eat meat, but I have been gradually reducing the amount I eat. I often eat only vegetarian sandwiches etc when out and about now.

I really, really can't wait for meat replacements to become cheap and popular. That'll be the end of meat for me.

 

[Gwadien]

It's more about animal welfare for me in this case but there are significant carbon savings to be made.

I'm not going to not eat meat. I like it too much. But some of the biggest carboon savings can be made by grass-fed beef, naturally and organically reared without long food chains and with effectively zero food miles. I'd also know that I'd be getting the best-kept animals who've had the best lives and the best conditions possible.

So I won't be buying beef from tesco, shipped from Argentina, reared to whatever standard Tesco deems OK, likely not really fed on actual grass, on actual grazing land - and likely on land that has been repurposed for beef farming (which comes with it's own costs).

So yeah, I could become veggie. But ethically I decided long ago that if I'm going to continue to eat meat then I should really only be able to if I was prepared to do the dirty work myself. So for me - welfare, ethics and maximal carbon savings on a still meat-based diet.



In other news - had my first two eggs out of my guinea fowl today.

Spoiler

Looks like one of @Wij's shits:
View attachment 45698
Must have been a shock to her - I guess your first egg's a tight one. And she didn't know not to drop it from height - so dropped it off her perch, hence the crack.

The other one was laid on the drive and left. Guineas are dumb as fuck. And notoriously bad mothers!

You're going to stop buying beef?

Are you going to like amputate limbs and stuff over time so they last longer?

 

[Scouse]

You're going to stop buying beef?

Are you going to like amputate limbs and stuff over time so they last longer?

Long term I'd like to be largely self-sufficient for meat.

I'm considering walk-in freezers. If I've got 50 chickens, a cow, a sheep or two, some geece then I'll likely need one.

Longer term, ofc.

 

[Scouse]

Extreme heat in oceans ‘passed point of no return’ in 2014

Formerly rare high temperatures now covering half of seas and devastating wildlife, study shows

www.theguardian.com

 

[Scouse]

Suspended for telling the truth:

Whoopi Goldberg suspended from The View after saying Holocaust ‘isn’t about race’

Talkshow host will not appear on the show for two weeks as network ABC News asks her to ‘take time to reflect and learn’

www.theguardian.com

Run scared people.

 

[dysfunction]

It's more about animal welfare for me in this case but there are significant carbon savings to be made.

I'm not going to not eat meat. I like it too much. But some of the biggest carboon savings can be made by grass-fed beef, naturally and organically reared without long food chains and with effectively zero food miles. I'd also know that I'd be getting the best-kept animals who've had the best lives and the best conditions possible.

So I won't be buying beef from tesco, shipped from Argentina, reared to whatever standard Tesco deems OK, likely not really fed on actual grass, on actual grazing land - and likely on land that has been repurposed for beef farming (which comes with it's own costs).

So yeah, I could become veggie. But ethically I decided long ago that if I'm going to continue to eat meat then I should really only be able to if I was prepared to do the dirty work myself. So for me - welfare, ethics and maximal carbon savings on a still meat-based diet.



In other news - had my first two eggs out of my guinea fowl today.

Spoiler

Looks like one of @Wij's shits:
View attachment 45698
Must have been a shock to her - I guess your first egg's a tight one. And she didn't know not to drop it from height - so dropped it off her perch, hence the crack.

The other one was laid on the drive and left. Guineas are dumb as fuck. And notoriously bad mothers!

did you use that spoon to get the egg out?