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Scouse

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I didn't see a lot of it in the UK when I lived there but in Spain and a lot of mainland Europe there are lots of words which, when translated into English, would be considered super racist.

Calling someone over here "negro" or "moreno" which would translate(ish) into "black" and "dark" isn't seen as racist. There's a chocolate covered peanut brand here called Conguito. I don't even know what the word means but when you say it, you refer to:

View attachment 45331

And no it's not considered racist.

I think half the time the translation is the problem.
Totally get this. Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra is all I'll say.
 

Aoami

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You can literally see it everywhere? If you've grown up around people from "different backgrounds" you can see it too.

Not a baffling argument in the slightest.

Sad word make me overly emotional and erratic. Boohoo. Get over it.

(It's a slightly wider issue than this obviously because context is a huge part of it..)
What is the argument you are trying to make here?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" seems to be the crux of it.
 

Overdriven

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What is the argument you are trying to make here?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" seems to be the crux of it.
It pretty much comes down to that and how people are now so reactive to things that they don't seem to realise that words are just more than words. Words and phrases have context. You can't have the same emotional outburst if you hear a rude word/a word you don't like if you don't understand the context.

Parents should/schools should teach the history of words and how they're still used now, the impact (etc) to give people an OPINION on it and to understand contextual use.

Not hard.

EDIT: Am bored now, so won't reply to this chain (for this subject) again.
 

Aoami

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Totally get this. Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra is all I'll say.
How about just don't bring someone's skin colour into it in the first place, then nothing can be misconstrued?

Liverpool apologizsd to Evra 9 years after the event so I'd personally take that as an admission that they felt Suarez overstepped the mark.
 

Aoami

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It pretty much comes down to that and how people are now so reactive to things that they don't seem to realise that words are just more than words. Words and phrases have context. You can't have the same emotional outburst if you hear a rude word/a word you don't like if you don't understand the context.

Parents should/schools should teach the history of words and how they're still used now, the impact (etc) to give people an OPINION on it and to understand contextual use.

Not hard.
How about just don't use the words at all though? Why do you need to? Why is important to remind, for instance, young black folks that a lot of society used to be racist cunts to them?
 

Scouse

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How about just don't bring someone's skin colour into it in the first place, then nothing can be misconstrued?

Liverpool apologizsd to Evra 9 years after the event so I'd personally take that as an admission that they felt Suarez overstepped the mark.
How about you learn that racism is about intent and other cultures can perfectly happily and non-racistly mention people's skin colour without the abject hysteria of the Brits?

Liverpool apologised to Evra because the British public are black and white (excuse the pun) in their cultural understanding - and it was dogging the brand domestically and with sponsors. It had nothing to do with right and wrong.
 

Deebs

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If you want another analogy - parents stopping kids playing very physically at a young age has resulted in a measureable increase in young adult deaths - because they didn't learn not to jump off cliffs when they were younger...
This. I remember at Junior School playing British bulldog and going out in the play area when it was covered in snow and having snowball fights.

IIRC that has all be banned now?
 

Embattle

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Loved British bulldog, a couple of friends and I made a tougher game although it was fun even if painful at times :)
 

Gwadien

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How about you learn that racism is about intent and other cultures can perfectly happily and non-racistly mention people's skin colour without the abject hysteria of the Brits?

Liverpool apologised to Evra because the British public are black and white (excuse the pun) in their cultural understanding - and it was dogging the brand domestically and with sponsors. It had nothing to do with right and wrong.
Okay then scenario;

Kid comes crying to staff 'x called me the n bomb' x tells you that the context wasn't racist.

What should be done?
 

DaGaffer

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Loved British bulldog, a couple of friends and I made a tougher game although it was fun even if painful at times :)
Or as my kids call it..."Bulldog". And kids over here certainly still play it. To be honest I think Irish kids in general seem to be less cotton-wool wrapped than British kids. Still way more than I was as a kid though (my parents literally never knew where I was during the day from about the age of seven, we'd have a collective heart attack if my kids did a tenth of the dangerous, really dangerous shit I did).
 

Scouse

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Context @Gwadien. What is the topic we're talking about.

The name of the game here is to come to a greater understanding, not invent scenarios completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

But to answer you. If a kid comes crying to a teacher saying "these guys called me a nigger" (I notice you couldn't bring yourself to type it) then you'd try to deal with any complaint like a teacher would.

I hope you wouldn't automatically believe the kid though - kids are lying little shits and absolutrly I remember kids lying through their teeth (with tears, even getting their mates to punch them) to get other kids in trouble.

Either way. Irrelevant.
 

Raven

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Shame you can pass comment without and knowledge surrounding the situation oO
She quit because her budget failed and a right wing budget passed. Then she changed her mind.
 

Scouse

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Or as my kids call it..."Bulldog". And kids over here certainly still play it. To be honest I think Irish kids in general seem to be less cotton-wool wrapped than British kids. Still way more than I was as a kid though (my parents literally never knew where I was during the day from about the age of seven, we'd have a collective heart attack if my kids did a tenth of the dangerous, really dangerous shit I did).
100% this.

I don't know any of my extended family's kids who've ever even broken a wrist (for example), whereas hospital for this sort of low-level stuff was regular.
 

Embattle

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I would be interested in the actual statistics over broken bones etc for children, I was fortunate that even with my accidents while using my bicycle during my youth I never suffered any breaks and none of the non bicycle accidents caused a break either.
 

Lamp

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I just saw a scaffolder slip on something in KFC and he somehow managed to crash into the bin area and land arse first in the garbage. His mates were bent double laughing their asses off. It was amusing. Funny how the misfortune of others can brighten your day 😁
 

Raven

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She had only just been appointed, like hours before. Lost her budget/coalition partner and quit, then went for it again.

If that is traditional then fair enough, doesn't seem to be particularly efficient though :)

Seems sillier than our government.
 

Gwadien

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Context @Gwadien. What is the topic we're talking about.

The name of the game here is to come to a greater understanding, not invent scenarios completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

But to answer you. If a kid comes crying to a teacher saying "these guys called me a nigger" (I notice you couldn't bring yourself to type it) then you'd try to deal with any complaint like a teacher would.

I hope you wouldn't automatically believe the kid though - kids are lying little shits and absolutrly I remember kids lying through their teeth (with tears, even getting their mates to punch them) to get other kids in trouble.

Either way. Irrelevant.
I didn't post nigger because I didn't see the need to and last time I posted Paki (or something similar) @Deebs gave me a warning so I fully expect the same here :)

But on topic so your philosophy is that all kids are liars and should be ignored.

And we said Job wanted the 19th century back.

But you probably should know that kids as young as 12 are currently being read books to them that involve lots of racism and detailed rape bits etc.

So yeah...
 

Scouse

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You really can't stop yourself from making stuff up can you. :(
 

Raven

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I didn't post nigger because I didn't see the need to and last time I posted Paki (or something similar) @Deebs gave me a warning so I fully expect the same here :)

But on topic so your philosophy is that all kids are liars and should be ignored.

And we said Job wanted the 19th century back.

But you probably should know that kids as young as 12 are currently being read books to them that involve lots of racism and detailed rape bits etc.

So yeah...
Bilbo. There, I said it.
 

Raven

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As for the whole bad words thing.

No, children should not be shielded from the language, yes they should be taught what it means, where it came from and in what context (if any) it would be appropriate. The N-bomb should not be used in any context, whatever colour you are. Except in the following line "racists, and general fuckwits say "Nigger"
 

Aoami

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She had only just been appointed, like hours before. Lost her budget/coalition partner and quit, then went for it again.

If that is traditional then fair enough, doesn't seem to be particularly efficient though :)

Seems sillier than our government.
Tradition dictated she needed to quit because she would no longer have a majority government. So she did, but then you take the case to the courts to say "actually I think a minority government will be OK, what do you think?", they give it the all clear and you're back. Something along those lines.
 

Yoni

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Exactly this she had to resign as the right wing budget passed the green and the far left said they would not implement it so there was no coalition. Her party then needs to reselect her to run a minority government.... not really silly she did not have the mandate to stay at that point... but sure carry on making assumptions about what is silly as far as government traditions go oO
 

Gwadien

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As for the whole bad words thing.

No, children should not be shielded from the language, yes they should be taught what it means, where it came from and in what context (if any) it would be appropriate. The N-bomb should not be used in any context, whatever colour you are. Except in the following line "racists, and general fuckwits say "Nigger"
This is the thing, schools are way more open with educating kids on all this shit, as I said, we're reading books to kids which deal with these issues all the time, same applies for most lessons that I teach, and yeah, we don't shy away from using terminology which is appropriate for the subject, and sometimes we show stuff to kids that's even considered too old to them (with prior agreement with the higher ups within the school, obviously, I'm not going to get Wij's dvd collection out).

As for the whole 'kids don't play bulldog anymore!' as I said before, it's health and safety; we had an email the other day from the site team about not letting kids throw snowballs because it might have grit in them and cause damage, and they'd be liable, and same applies for every other unsupervised 'contact'. Obviously they still do full contact rugby in PE and many other physical activities where kids can get hurt, but its all supervised.

So as much as people want to pass it of as a 'omg kids these days' or a 'fucking lefties' thing, it just isn't true, unfortunately.

This is coming from someone that has actually been in a school for an extended period of time in the last ~30 years...

I just draw the line at allowing kids to use that kind of language freely, because as I've said a number of times 'sticks and stones' is complete and utter bullshit.

Also, who gives a fuck what the certification people think, they've been irrelevant for years.
 

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