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DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
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Massively increase pay for mps, ministers and the PM, ban them from having other jobs or ever having a job after being PM (but obviously a decent pension).

We need to cut out the remaining Victorian elements of our democracy like the cancer that they are.

That way there's no blurred lines and you can put the corrupt fuckers in prison forever.
Doubt it would make a blind bit of difference. Politicians are bent because the have the opportunity to be bent, not because they're not getting paid enough. Loads of countries pay their politicians loads of money and they still have their noses in the trough.

And you can't realistically ban MPs from subsequent work; lots of MPs might only last one or two election cycles anyway, so it would be a massive disincentive to do the job, especially in a marginal seat. Besides, they make their post politics money from investments and all that lovely inside knowledge as much as non-exec board memberships; are you going to stop them owning shares as well?

What you really need as a really effective independent standards organisation with real power; "throw them in jail and throw away the key" power.
 

Wij

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Doubt it would make a blind bit of difference. Politicians are bent because the have the opportunity to be bent, not because they're not getting paid enough. Loads of countries pay their politicians loads of money and they still have their noses in the trough.

And you can't realistically ban MPs from subsequent work; lots of MPs might only last one or two election cycles anyway, so it would be a massive disincentive to do the job, especially in a marginal seat. Besides, they make their post politics money from investments and all that lovely inside knowledge as much as non-exec board memberships; are you going to stop them owning shares as well?

What you really need as a really effective independent standards organisation with real power; "throw them in jail and throw away the key" power.
Plato had it right. We need a philosopher class to rule.

*dig out degree certificate*
 

Access Denied

It was like that when I got here...
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The way I see it there are two options. Either ban sitting MP's from being on any boards while in office and for a set time afterwards so there can be no "insider trading" type shennanigans.

Or

Force them to abstain from any vote where their extracurriculars create a conflict of interest. For example, MP's who are also landlords wouldn't be allowed to vote on bills that affect that.
 

Raven

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They are supposed to declare interests already. Even I have to being on a Parish Council.
 

Tom

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An independent standards authority with teeth might help. Lie to the public or parliament? Forced to make a public apology, in front of the cameras, the words vetted first by that same standards authority. Do it again? Immediately removed from your constituency seat, new election.
 

Gwadien

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Doubt it would make a blind bit of difference. Politicians are bent because the have the opportunity to be bent, not because they're not getting paid enough. Loads of countries pay their politicians loads of money and they still have their noses in the trough.

And you can't realistically ban MPs from subsequent work; lots of MPs might only last one or two election cycles anyway, so it would be a massive disincentive to do the job, especially in a marginal seat. Besides, they make their post politics money from investments and all that lovely inside knowledge as much as non-exec board memberships; are you going to stop them owning shares as well?

What you really need as a really effective independent standards organisation with real power; "throw them in jail and throw away the key" power.
Meant more ministerial positions rather than MPs not having jobs infact in the OP I think I said PM.
 

DaGaffer

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Quite right too
Ugh.

boring twat with a made up name said:
Ffred Ffransis, a prominent member of the pressure group Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg (the Welsh Language Society) said: “I wonder if people in England can imagine renaming the Arc de Triomphe ‘Happy Days Arch’, or the Acropolis as ‘Temple Mount’? Enjoying the living culture is part of the experience of visiting a country, and this is as true of Cymru as any other country. Not only is Snowdon ‘Yr Wyddfa’ but our country is ‘Cymru’ (land of the comrades) not ‘Wales’ (land of the outsiders).”
Yeah and we call Deutschland "Germany" you boring bellend. I fucking hate language Nazis. They're always basically small-minded bigots when you scratch the surface. "Ooh, we have to protect our culture. Not the bits of the culture that are in English though, because they're bastards". Dylan Thomas did his best work in English you prick.
 

Raven

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You know when you've had too much cake when you put weight on your forehead.
 

Scouse

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Yeah and we call Deutschland "Germany" you boring bellend. I fucking hate language Nazis. They're always basically small-minded bigots when you scratch the surface. "Ooh, we have to protect our culture. Not the bits of the culture that are in English though, because they're bastards". Dylan Thomas did his best work in English you prick.
Absolutely Gaff. I think this is definitely where this push has come from (and again, I think this fresh strain of asshat nationalism has it's roots in the 2008 crash).

Having said that. I still have sympathy for the view.
 

Lamp

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So I bought some hair clippers a while back, and have been doing my own hair.
Number 4 all over.
Just gave myself what I thought was a usual haircut...
..only it wasn't until I realised a lot of hair was coming off that the Mrs had pranked me, and swapped my regular No. 4 blade for the No. 1 !

Oh how she laughed. Cackling like a gin-swilling toothless Victorian street-walker.
Hilarious :eek:

Now I look like Neo from the Matrix :eek6:

I shall plot my revenge while it grows back.
:flame:
 

Embattle

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So I bought some hair clippers a while back, and have been doing my own hair.
Number 4 all over.
Just gave myself what I thought was a usual haircut...
..only it wasn't until I realised a lot of hair was coming off that the Mrs had pranked me, and swapped my regular No. 4 blade for the No. 1 !

Oh how she laughed. Cackling like a gin-swilling toothless Victorian street-walker.
Hilarious :eek:

Now I look like Neo from the Matrix :eek6:

I shall plot my revenge while it grows back.
:flame:
No 1. is my maximum.
 

Scouse

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So I bought some hair clippers a while back, and have been doing my own hair.
Number 4 all over.
Just gave myself what I thought was a usual haircut...
..only it wasn't until I realised a lot of hair was coming off that the Mrs had pranked me, and swapped my regular No. 4 blade for the No. 1 !

Oh how she laughed. Cackling like a gin-swilling toothless Victorian street-walker.
Hilarious :eek:

Now I look like Neo from the Matrix :eek6:

I shall plot my revenge while it grows back.
:flame:
LOL! :D

POIDH tbpfh.
 

Bodhi

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Absolutely Gaff. I think this is definitely where this push has come from (and again, I think this fresh strain of asshat nationalism has it's roots in the 2008 crash).

Having said that. I still have sympathy for the view.
Not sure if I'd trace Welsh Nationalism back to 2008, I'd link it more to the Nats up North and their general asshattery (for instance, Police cars in Edinburgh also have "Police" written in Gaelic on them - the nearest Gaelic speaker is about 150 miles away), and the Welsh want a bit of that for themselves.

It's all a bit daft though. Can't they just give it two names and signs like everything else in Wales?
 

DaGaffer

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It's all a bit daft though. Can't they just give it two names and signs like everything else in Wales?
Nah, the endgame for this particular brand of fuckwit is to make Wales monolingual. Place names is a start, not an end.
 

Bodhi

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Nah, the endgame for this particular brand of fuckwit is to make Wales monolingual. Place names is a start, not an end.
Seems entirely sensible when a large proportion of your economy is built on tourists coming over from England who don't speak Welsh.

In fact even most of the Welsh don't speak Welsh, unless they're in the North and non-Welsh speakers turn up.
 

Raven

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I hear they want to rename London, Londinium too...same sort of era.
 

Scouse

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Nah, the endgame for this particular brand of fuckwit is to make Wales monolingual. Place names is a start, not an end.
Agree.

But they do have a valid point on loss of language and culture. There's absolutely a valid point there.

The real question is what are reasonable measures to take to preserve that, or does "progress" (the way we understand it at the moment) mean the complete homogonisation of language and culture - because I think that's the track we're on tbh.
 

Raven

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Imagine a Proper Welsh™ guy on the first Mars colony. Sure, keep it as a hobby language but ffs, grow up.
 

Scouse

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Imagine a Proper Welsh™ guy on the first Mars colony. Sure, keep it as a hobby language but ffs, grow up.
Yeah, don't have sympathy for that view. That's "fuck the whole world, speak English, would be much easier".

It's cultural homogenisation and we all lose out from that tbh.
 

DaGaffer

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Seems entirely sensible when a large proportion of your economy is built on tourists coming over from England who don't speak Welsh.

In fact even most of the Welsh don't speak Welsh, unless they're in the North and non-Welsh speakers turn up.
I don't think "sensible" even makes the top ten of their reasoning, which largely goes;

1. Hate the English
2-10. Hate the English.

One thing I will say though, getting the Welsh to speak Welsh is working, slowly. When I was growing up on Anglesey no-one really spoke Welsh as a first language, but lots of people in that part of the world do now, They've been massively more successful at the job than the Irish.

Agree.

But they do have a valid point on loss of language and culture. There's absolutely a valid point there.

The real question is what are reasonable measures to take to preserve that, or does "progress" (the way we understand it at the moment) mean the complete homogonisation of language and culture - because I think that's the track we're on tbh.
I find it incredibly hard to give a shit. My attitude towards language is first and foremost pragmatic; what languages are the best investments of one's limited time? And fiddly little languages that are useful for talking to 20 people with straw in their beards fail that test. I want my kids to learn Spanish and Mandarin, not Irish and Welsh, unless they develop some academic interest in obscure languages.
 

Scouse

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I find it incredibly hard to give a shit. My attitude towards language is first and foremost pragmatic; what languages are the best investments of one's limited time? And fiddly little languages that are useful for talking to 20 people with straw in their beards fail that test. I want my kids to learn Spanish and Mandarin, not Irish and Welsh, unless they develop some academic interest in obscure languages.
Have to say I have sympathy with that view too. However, kids are fucking sponges for languages - proven so. If you school them from a young age (like day1 school) in multiple languages they become fluent pretty quickly. Their capacity to be multilingual is astonishing. English and Welsh together in school should be a no brainer in Wales - with those languages on top tbh. And unless they're doing business in a foreign language (which the majority of them won't be) or destined to live abroad thene Welsh is more useful for the Welsh tbh - it's a useful living language and nice to hear/be around.

Aside from being multilingual having a huge effect on how people think (and that being a great thing) I simply prefer living in a country where you experience different languages. I think that has intangible benefits to tolerance across society.

People who aren't regularly exposed to cultural differences are the least tolerant arseholes on the planet.
 

Scouse

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Going into steam right now, clicking on the "golden week sale", scrolling down to "popular / recently released / discounted" -

clicking on "recently released"

:eek6::eek6::eek7:
 

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