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Discussion in 'The Front Room' started by kirennia, Jun 10, 2007.

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  1. BloodOmen

    BloodOmen I am a FH squatter

     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Rubber Bullets

    Rubber Bullets Resident Freddy

    We've got tickets to see Tim Minchin in Plymouth in November. Very excited
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

  4. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    The bits it quotes from the indictment aren't charges. When it talks about the actual charges it says this:

    "Experts on freedom of the press and speech were generally more relaxed about that narrow charge, standing on its own, in that it essentially accuses Assange of violating computer hacking laws – specifically the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act – in a way that has no first amendment protection. If prosecutors succeed in presenting evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to that effect, it is unlikely to arouse fierce opposition across the board."

    Anyway, I'd rather was in a Swedish jail for being a rapist but whatever. I'm shedding no tears.

    Even the guy they had a Radio 4 last night from the Guardian to defend him said he was basically a total prick.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    I've repeatedly said I don't give a fuck about the man. Rapist or not. Yes, they're also saying that if he gets done for hacking he gets done for hacking. Fair enough.

    I do give a fuck about the rest of it - and the fact that the experts are saying this:
    And I do give a fuck about the more important story - the story that was uncovered about US atrocities when wikileaks released the Chelsea Manning files.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

  7. Job

    Job TWAT and FH Object of Ridicule

    Im so torn on Assange and Im not really sure if its only because he came across as such a smug bastard.

    Exposing government corruption..about as honourable as it gets, potentially getting real people in real shit is a kind of colaterol damage that politicians get to judge on..not 'journalists'.
    I think many of the accusations against him and wikileaks have a good bit of truth in them and only my freedom of speech mantra can let me put that aside.
    If Trump backs him at any point he will be a fucking hero, but I dont think even he could pull that off.
    All ready washing his hands of it.

    His arrest is going to put a lot of people in very difficult situations...which is good obviously.

    Im running a bit scared of it myself
     
  8. Job

    Job TWAT and FH Object of Ridicule

  9. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    Look. I don't give a fuck if Wikileaks is biased (all media organisations are). Ultimately they released files that showed widespread atrocities committed by the United States and its allies and outright lies that they told the public.

    Stuff like this:
    That one fact alone - learning of sixty six thousand non-combatant deaths in Iraq due to the war, which our government told us there was no record of - justifies the existence of wikileaks, biased or not. Never mind the uncovering of multiple murders, torture etc. etc.


    The fact that Assange is an asshat, might be a little rapey, and maybe a bit hackey (so the fuck what if it uncovers government murder and lies?) is dwarfed in comparison to the things that Wikileaks have uncovered.

    Your rage that Assange may have biasedly helped get Trump elected seems to be blinding you to these vastly more important facts. Assange may be a dick but you seem blind to the fact that, in the end, Wikileaks did the human race a pretty decent service there. And Assange <> Wikileaks.
     
  10. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

  11. Hawkwind

    Hawkwind FH is my second home FH Subscriber

    Why do you feel extradition to the US is not possible? It is not a capital crime so execution would not be a factor. Maybe I missed something in the news.
     
  12. Deebs

    Deebs Chief Arsewipe Staff member Moderator FH Subscriber

  13. Job

    Job TWAT and FH Object of Ridicule

    And now whuch pill are we going to take?

    Rollover to the US or stand with the EU?
     
  14. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    Yeah. That's a problem.

    But I guess it's like Assange - however unpalatable the messenger is doesn't really matter if the message is important.


    Anyway - I didn't know this - they've re-jailed Chelsea Manning because she's refusing to go before a grand jury to testify against Wikileaks. Fair enough, but Grand Juries have a long blemished record of being used to silence political dissent.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    Assange might be a bellend but this ultimately is a political arrest.

    I'd love to know how much pressure the Swedes are under by the Americans to push those rape charges.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Embattle

    Embattle FH is my second home

  17. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
  18. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    But either way - and once again - this isn't about Assange. It's about our governments comitting murder and torture. About wars we've started that have killed tens of thousands of innocents - and then lying to us about it.

    If you're glaring at the guy from Oz then you're eyes are spastically out of whack - they should be firmly pointed at the murderous governments who want us to shut the fuck up whilst they act how they like.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    Quote from abbot above.

    Sweden can come forward. But Assange always said he'd happily face the charges if Sweden wouldn't extradite him...


    When you value getting Trump and people who may have supported him over war, murder, torture and states abusing dissidents, I guess...
     
  20. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    A. Dodgy as fuck charges. B. Its Sweden. Looking at someone a bit funny is grounds for charges over there.

    Assange is just the worst, but that doesn't make American extradition justifiable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    You don't like the Iraq war. I get it. He should not be exempt from criminal charges because of it.
     
  22. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    So Sweden should have guaranteed non-extradition and he'd have gone over and been tried. Perfect.

    The "hacking" charge in the US? Bullshit - even IF guilty (and we have enough laws that we can pretty much find everyone guilty of something) the fact that massive horrendous abuse and death done in our name was uncovered should grant protection for any of that. As it should for Snowden.

    If you're arguing against that then your priorities are completely fucked. The ends sometimes justify the means. If you have to break a hacking law to uncover mass-murder then good on you.
     
  23. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    Jeez...

    Thread:


    View: https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1116597761128845312


    Assange did not hide in the embassy to escape US charges. He hid there to escape Swedish rape charges. That’s what started it. Read the thread about those charges and about further extradition.

    Assange apologists stating that he would have gone to Sweden if he could have had a guarantee not to be sent to the US is total misdirection. Firstly because I don’t believe he would have and secondly Sweden was in no position to make such a promise at the time. He skipped bail to avoid extradition on a rape charge.
     
  24. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    I find it somewhat problematic that you keep posting these tweets as evidence, who are these people, how much is the US government paying them?
     
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  25. Wij

    Wij I am a FH squatter FH Subscriber

    *sigh*
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  26. fettoken

    fettoken FH is my second home

    It's so...unanimous, isn't it?

    Also: Wij's a corporate shill for sure.
     
  27. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    Why do you think Sweden was in no position to make such a promise? Lawyers made representations and sweden refused, not said they couldn't do it. Pure speculation.

    But just so we can stop talking about rape, I'll make it very clear, again: I'd be very happy to see him extradited to Sweden to face rape charges.

    Now. Can we get back to the important thing:

    Do you think he should be getting extradited to the US?
    Does the minor misdemeanour of potentially hacking a computer not balance out against the atrocities that Wikileaks uncovered and published?

    I.E. Should whistleblowers not receive protection from prosecution for minor acts when releasing vital information in the public interest?



    Simple question @Wij. But you will keep trying to bring the topic round to the minor question, rather than the major one. Put your cards on the table eh?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  28. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    No, sorry, he definitely hid in the Embassy because he expected the Swedes to extradite him; he's been saying that since the start.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. Scouse

    Scouse Glyphosate-fuelled tumor-boy FH Subscriber

    Totally.
     

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