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[DaGaffer]

I think there's also a few issues being confused here. It's legitimate to say that some of the women knew what they were signing up for, had maybe experienced it before, were happy to take the money and were confident in their ability to deal with drunken saddos.

There's another point though that why should this be an acceptable event for bosses of big business to be attending? It's men paying for the attention of girls. That may be acceptable in some contexts (which brings us back to the ladies nights in bingo halls etc) but this is the execs and CIOs of top businesses hob-nobbing with each other. What does that say about the status of women in the companies they run? "Sorry love, you're not welcome to come along with the other VPs tonight. Fit birds only! Hahaha!"

That depends on whether they are attending as private individuals or as agents of their companies. If it’s the latter then you’re quite correct. On the other hand it should be noted there are now quite a few women-only corporate shindigs out there these days, so the idea of same-sex events shouldn’t be off the table, but obviously the execution of those events should be under scrutiny.

What I’m finding interesting is that all these captains of industry were so comfortable with making themselves so easily open to blackmail; in large parts of world “hostesses” are laid on at this type of event as tools of corporate espionage.

 

[Scouse]

I do like Ian Bowler

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=180&v=lHrWFETgqqw

 

[Wij]

That depends on whether they are attending as private individuals or as agents of their companies. If it’s the latter then you’re quite correct. On the other hand it should be noted there are now quite a few women-only corporate shindigs out there these days, so the idea of same-sex events shouldn’t be off the table, but obviously the execution of those events should be under scrutiny.

What I’m finding interesting is that all these captains of industry were so comfortable with making themselves so easily open to blackmail; in large parts of world “hostesses” are laid on at this type of event as tools of corporate espionage.

The fact that it's labelled the President's Club and is for business leaders (but not if they are women) means that it will be associated with the business they run no matter how hard they protest that they attended in a personal capacity.

 

[Job]

Seriously..do you think they give a shit about this weeks outrage.

 

[Moriath]

Just so I can be clear - you're supportive of the men who put their hands up the skirts of paid staff uninvited?

You can be clear i said that in previous posts.

As long as the women are there of their own free will and free to leave when ever they want then they do not need protecting.

As proven by those who had done this event multiple times not all women dislike that attention and who am i to dictate how they want to earn their money.

By banning things on their behalf you might as well ban porn or sex workers cause i am sure there are a lot of people who have done that for the first time hated and never done it again.

Thats sex workers not those sex slaves that are trafficed that is a different kettle of fish.

Women can be just as out of control and there are numerous ways to hire naked waiters to cater women only events. But no one is complaining about them.

 

[Scouse]

As long as the women are there of their own free will and free to leave when ever they want then they do not need protecting.

If it wasn't made explicit that they may have their genitalia groped and that was part of the job description before they went in there then the ability to leave after what is a sexual assault doesn't make things OK.

Neither does the fact that some women think it's OK make it OK.

On the other hand - if they'd just had hired a load of hookers to go in and serve, and maybe be felt up if the men felt like it, then that'd be fine. But regular girls, who may have been OK with a "bit of banter" does not mean OK with actual physical assault.

 

[Bodhi]

Plastic-free aisle in supermarkets to become hook-up joint for sanctimonious twats

 

[Moriath]

If it wasn't made explicit that they may have their genitalia groped and that was part of the job description before they went in there then the ability to leave after what is a sexual assault doesn't make things OK.

Neither does the fact that some women think it's OK make it OK.

On the other hand - if they'd just had hired a load of hookers to go in and serve, and maybe be felt up if the men felt like it, then that'd be fine. But regular girls, who may have been OK with a "bit of banter" does not mean OK with actual physical assault.

In your opinion . Not mine.

 

[Scouse]

In your opinion

This isn't a matter of opinion. This is a matter of law.

Unsolicited genital touching is the very definition of sexual assault.


If no prior consent was given then it's sexual assault. Period.


Jeesus. Maybe men really do need to have lessons in what consent is. (And women tbh, as I've had my balls grabbed in nightclubs). But just to be very clear Moriath: you condone illegal sexual assault.

 

[Moriath]

This isn't a matter of opinion. This is a matter of law.

Unsolicited genital touching is the very definition of sexual assault.


If no prior consent was given then it's sexual assault. Period.


Jeesus. Maybe men really do need to have lessons in what consent is. (And women tbh, as I've had my balls grabbed in nightclubs). But just to be very clear Moriath: you condone illegal sexual assault.

If there was sexual assualt where are the arrests and the charges?

 

[Bodhi]

If this sexual assault did happen (evidence is amazingly thin on the ground at the mo), then it is amazingly easy to deal with - offender gets a slap, removed from the venue and handed over to authorities. Given the profile of people attending, the threat of being found out will be enough to keep them in line.

Won't stop the moral outrage that rich people have the same desires as the rest of us, but as it's probably more difficult for them to buggger off to Amsterdam for the weekend, I don't see the issue with these sorts of evening. Just stick within the law.

 

[Moriath]

Exactly, there are a lot of things that are being assumed here. I heard of girls being hugged and people trying to kiss them but havent seen any statements of people sticking fingers up their twats or similar.

Hijinx and tom foolery until theres proof of things going beyond the law.

 

[DaGaffer]

TV

The fact that it's labelled the President's Club and is for business leaders (but not if they are women) means that it will be associated with the business they run no matter how hard they protest that they attended in a personal capacity.

Not sure why "president's club" is uniquely male or uniquely for business types tbh; and since there were politicians and media types there as well it's obviously not just a business thing.

Like with any of these things, not defending their behaviour, but I have no problem with the idea of male-only (or female-only) events. Access to anything in the public domain should have no gender (or any other) bar to access, but in the private sphere I really couldn't care less. I personally wouldn't want to be a member of an all-male golf club (because all golfists are cunts obviously) but if male golfers want to hang out in loud trousers talking about their tedious lives as used car salesmen without women around, who am I to judge? I'd be equally happy with female-only clubs of any description because it means they can go and do their misandrist...stuff, without bothering the rest of us.

 

[Scouse]

If there was sexual assualt where are the arrests and the charges?

We've moved on from this specific case to this specific point Moriath - please to be following this exchange:

Just so I can be clear - you're supportive of the men who put their hands up the skirts of paid staff uninvited?

You can be clear i said that..As long as the women are there of their own free will and free to leave when ever they want then they do not need protecting.

If it wasn't made explicit that they may have their genitalia groped and that was part of the job description before they went in there then the ability to leave after what is a sexual assault doesn't make things OK.

In your opinion . Not mine.

- so you explictly and clearly condone uninvited sexual touching.

At which point I directed you to the exact piece of law that explicitly says that non-consentual sexual touching is sexual assault.

It's immaterial whether there've been arrests and charges - the case no longer matters - the interesting thing here is that you're OK with men non-consentually touching women.

 

[Bodhi]

Most of the reported touching I don't mind saying I don't have an issue with - holding hands, arms round waists etc, that's every Xmas party ever. Hands up skirts? Yes, eject and prosecute.

Unless it's Presidents Club in Bangkok, in which case it's probably sensible. As you never know.

 

[Moriath]

We've moved on from this specific case to this specific point Moriath - please to be following this exchange:




- so you explictly and clearly condone uninvited sexual touching.

At which point I directed you to the exact piece of law that explicitly says that non-consentual sexual touching is sexual assault.

It's immaterial whether there've been arrests and charges - the case no longer matters - the interesting thing here is that you're OK with men non-consentually touching women.

You may have been moving on to generalities. You failed to take me with you.

If theres sexual assault they should be charged and kicked out. But as @Bodhi says. An attempted kiss, hand hold hug pat on the back i have no quarms with. Women are equiped with a slap or a kick in the shin if they dont like it.

 

[Scouse]

Most of the reported touching I don't mind saying I don't have an issue with - holding hands, arms round waists etc, that's every Xmas party ever. Hands up skirts? Yes, eject and prosecute.

Unless it's Presidents Club in Bangkok, in which case it's probably sensible. As you never know.

If they've signed up to it then it's fair game. No ethical problems at all. Even if its balls-on-forehead action.

But a lot of women are hugely uncomfortable with arms around waists, small of their backs, especially by creepy gropey old men. It's not something that happens to men much, but if it happened all the time then yes, it'd be pretty horrid.

If rich people want to run a charity event like a private sex club, then they need to hire the right staff. Might cost them £500/head instead of £150/head - but then rich people are rich, they can afford it...

 

[old.user4556]

Maybe men really do need to have lessons in what consent is.

I think we just have a blanket ban on touching other humans.

 

[old.user4556]

uninvited sexual touching.

balls-on-forehead action.

*unziiiiiiip*

 

[DaGaffer]

If they've signed up to it then it's fair game. No ethical problems at all. Even if its balls-on-forehead action.

But a lot of women are hugely uncomfortable with arms around waists, small of their backs, especially by creepy gropey old men. It's not something that happens to men much, but if it happened all the time then yes, it'd be pretty horrid.

If rich people want to run a charity event like a private sex club, then they need to hire the right staff. Might cost them £500/head instead of £150/head - but then rich people are rich, they can afford it...

From some of things the hostesses mentioned in that FT article I get the distinct impression a few of these men thought the hostesses were hookers. Certainly some of them outright asked.

 

[Gwadien]

What about all the other women that have come forward, gold diggers?

Has there been many accounts of positivism? (Genuinely asking)

 

[Gwadien]

Shock as rare 'male' vulture lays egg

lefties lol.

 

[Moriath]

I think we just have a blanket ban on touching other humans.

Thats where we are heading.

Unfortunately.

Not that i go around tpuching people all the time. But its getting like make any advances towards someone you like if you are a guy and you run a risk.

That cant be right.

 

[Bodhi]

From some of things the hostesses mentioned in that FT article I get the distinct impression a few of these men thought the hostesses were hookers. Certainly some of them outright asked.

And from comments I've heard from men who have been to these events, a large proportion are usually escorts.

Potato potato and all that.

 

[Bodhi]

If they've signed up to it then it's fair game. No ethical problems at all. Even if its balls-on-forehead action.

But a lot of women are hugely uncomfortable with arms around waists, small of their backs, especially by creepy gropey old men. It's not something that happens to men much, but if it happened all the time then yes, it'd be pretty horrid.

If rich people want to run a charity event like a private sex club, then they need to hire the right staff. Might cost them £500/head instead of £150/head - but then rich people are rich, they can afford it...

What if it it was 150 quid plus extras?

 

[Moriath]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs


Heading for this tbh.

 

[old.user4556]

Thats where we are heading.

Unfortunately.

Not that i go around tpuching people all the time. But its getting like make any advances towards someone you like if you are a guy and you run a risk.

That cant be right.

Let's entertain that for a second. In a formal professional workplace, other than a handshake or a medical emergency, why would colleagues need to touch each other? You could solve any 'grey area' discussions in one swoop?

 

[Job]

I think the end game for Liberals is to eliminate free will.

 

[Scouse]

I think the end game for Liberals is to eliminate free will.

I don't think that's what this discussion is about at all.

Unless you mean free will means chancing a quick squeeze of some chicks boobs, with fair come back being a slap in your face?

 

[Job]

No..they will continue to extend the spectrum of intrusion..then use technology to enforce it in increasing micro management of human interaction, the end game will be every though requiring context and consequence filtering, we will interact through robot lawyers