This is what life will be like for a zerker in 1.62

[Ebonn]

Originally posted by -GReaper-
Balance is coming! Roll on 1.62!

 

[old.Emma]

Funny thing about these threads is you learn just what people are like really.

Mordia tbh seeing as your being all truthfull now, i never liked from day 1. although thats irrelavent really atleast i had the heart to not say it to your face. although seeing as you've thrown all forms of humanity out the window, well ahh well. I DONT LIKE YOU EITHER.

Mobius.. how could you

Sure i didnt do my self any favour posting a slightly modified log.

Atleast i then spent the time and effort righting a document that shows that Mythic didnt bring LA inline with CD/DW in 1.62 it actually under performs CD/DW in both styled and unstyled tests. Many people that have read it so far agree that LA isnt not equal at all with CD/DW now. And those that dont agree cant grasp simple logic and maths.

 

[mestoph]

Emma, we never said there was anything wrong with your maths. Its the fact that figures are BS to start with. 42% is a figure taken from a cloud high above the realms of shitsville.

Oh and if you read then entire of the patch notes from A-M you will notice they also increased style damage for the class too.

 

[old.Emma]

Mestoph,

From test conducted on pendragon over the course of hundreds of logs. Doublefrosts damage has been decreased by 42.03% over its previous form, there is a chance i had done the calculations wrongly but i wasnt far off the correct ammount.

And some of the styles were increased by ~5-10% namely Snowsquall, Icy Brilliance and Aurora Borealis, this change was implemented for Berserkers only, Shadowblades retain the lowered version of those 3 styles and AB is still in its original form (target parries) unlike the Berserker change which made it 3rd style in a rear positional chain that procs a Cold DD.

Which is fair enough Positional styles should have higher damage output than anytime styles.

Aurora Borealis's new Growth rate for Berserkers only is 1.049

It is not the highest damage style in the game any more, the highest as of 1.62 is,

Conflagration (Scythe) which has a growth rate of 1.44 and again is a reationary style part of a chain.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Emma
From test conducted on pendragon over the course of hundreds of logs. Doublefrosts damage has been decreased by 42.03% over its previous form, there is a chance i had done the calculations wrongly but i wasnt far off the correct ammount.

The problems with your maths were:

1) The 42% reduction is on the style bonus, not the total damage - Danyan posted the correct numbers after the reduction.

2) The 42% reduction was a difference between 1.61 and 1.62. We are working with 1.60. You said you were fully buffed with 325str. In 1.60 this is capped to 300str. In 1.61 the caps on buffs were removed, so your str would have raised to at least 340 and would not be capped. Thus you need to increase the damage again (that's an increase on the total, not just the style damage).

As a result of these, your numbers were over 300 short of what could be called a reasonable guess.


Then note that you have buffed Quickness, so would still be swinging those weapons with a delay around 2.5secs.


edit: Oh, and nevermind that you made yourself look kinda silly not being able to tell the difference between a bard and a druid.

 

[1234Taz]

Originally posted by vukstinaitor

Zerkers are very balanced Emma!

 

[~Mobius~]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Mobius.. how could you

I just think Mordia is hilarious
Not bothered about la whine and my main is a Zerk.
Its nothing personal to you Emma i always liked your sexy characters, just this whine is zzz. ;x

 

[Fafnir]

Would be fun to see how albs/hibs would say if they lets say nerfed DW stun, LW stun/damage. FFS being hit for 570 by a blue con, while capped meele resists.

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by Pin
The problems with your maths were:

1) The 42% reduction is on the style bonus, not the total damage - Danyan posted the correct numbers after the reduction.

2) The 42% reduction was a difference between 1.61 and 1.62. We are working with 1.60. You said you were fully buffed with 325str. In 1.60 this is capped to 300str. In 1.61 the caps on buffs were removed, so your str would have raised to at least 340 and would not be capped. Thus you need to increase the damage again (that's an increase on the total, not just the style damage).

As a result of these, your numbers were over 300 short of what could be called a reasonable guess.


Then note that you have buffed Quickness, so would still be swinging those weapons with a delay around 2.5secs.


edit: Oh, and nevermind that you made yourself look kinda silly not being able to tell the difference between a bard and a druid.

1. your right about that was a mistake of mine, but

going by the style multiplier that is confired to be accurate, the 1.62 growth rate for Doublefrost is 0.72.

((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage

((.72 * 62) * 3.45) / 137 = 1.12

So that first style would have looked like this.

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly.(+112)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 249(+9)
You attack Downinshata with your axe and hit for 68(-15)

2. 325 str in 1.60 is still the same as 325 str in 1.61 afaik so that is irrelevant to this post.

Effective Speed of a Spiked Hammer and Hand Axe with 139 quickness is 2.73 seconds fyi. Style bonus for leftaxe attacks are calculated from the Effective Speed of the mainhand weapon. In this case it is 4.1 spd, effective speed 3.45 seconds.

That him lying down next to me in that screen shot. Guess its pretty hard to tell what class he is when i cant see his head/arms, he was running around healing people so i presumed a Druid.

I tend to think of Bards as mezz/speed machines not healers ;p

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Emma
2. 325 str in 1.60 is still the same as 325 str in 1.61 afaik so that is irrelevant to this post.

No. 325str in this patch is capped at 300 (there is a hard cap on str at 300, both for encumbrance and weaponskill). In 1.60 you gain nothing from having over 300str.

In 1.61 you DO gain from having over 300str, and with the same buffs on you you would have over 340str, with no cap.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Emma
1. your right about that was a mistake of mine, but

going by the style multiplier that is confired to be accurate, the 1.62 growth rate for Doublefrost is 0.72.

((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage

((.72 * 62) * 3.45) / 137 = 1.12

So that first style would have looked like this.

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly.(+112)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 249(+9)
You attack Downinshata with your axe and hit for 68(-15)

And again you seem to have just made numbers up.

The formula you gave is to calculate the style damage multiplier to apply to the base damage in order to obtain the style bonus damage, but firstly the 137 is not neccessarily the Unstyled Damage Cap, and secondly you didn't multiply the number by the base damage.

Besides, you already have the style damage multiplier from version 1.60 from your other screenshot which is simply:

214/137 = 1.562.

The growth rate of Doublefrost is 1.25 in 1.60 and 0.72 in 1.62, so to get the multiplier for version 1.62, just take

(1.562*0.72)/1.25 = 0.9.

So your style bonus damage in 1.62 for that hit would have been (+123), and the hits would have looked like:

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+123)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 278(+18) damage!
You critical hit for an additional 222 damage!
You attack Downinshata with your axe and hit for 68(-15) damage!
You critical hit for an additional 59 damage!

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+135)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 306(+20) damage!
You critical hit for an additional 195 damage!



edit: And compared with your original numbers, that's 230 total damage difference over the 2 hits. And this does not take into account the damage increase you'll receive from uncapped strength in 1.61 (which will give about 10% increase on top, or a further ~110 damage overall).

In short, I don't think you have ANYTHING to complain about.

 

[Sarnat]

Pwnd by Mordia IMO.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Fafnir
Would be fun to see how albs/hibs would say if they lets say nerfed DW stun, LW stun/damage. FFS being hit for 570 by a blue con, while capped meele resists.

DW stun? surely you mean dragonfang

there'd probably lots of infiltrators decrying it's the end of albion and that the walls of camelot were falling.

Annihilation is a nasty style (although.. 570 sounds like a lucky crit or you forgot to wear your armour/renew your AF buffs )

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by old.Emma


So that first style would have looked like this.

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly.(+112)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 249(+9)
You attack Downinshata with your axe and hit for 68(-15)

What exactly is wrong with 317 damage at a 2.5 (or so) delay?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
What exactly is wrong with 317 damage at a 2.5 (or so) delay?

Nothing would be wrong with it... Shame it was actually 627

 

[old.Emma]

Pin your maths is off.

The style multiplier for Doublefrost in 1.62


215 is the damage cap for a Spiked Hammer

((.72 * 62) * 3.45) / 175 = 0.8800

So it should look like this.

.8800% = 1.8800

The multiplier from your calculation equaled.

278 - 18 = 260

260 / (260 - 123) = 1.897

.

For my calculation it equals which was wrong also, it should have been.

((.72 * 62) * 3.45) / 175 = .8800

Unstyled LA cap is 175 for the spiked hammer

Base Damage was 137 for the first style, so the style bonus is going to be 137 * .88 = 120.56

137 + 120 = 257

So the style would have been.

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+120)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 274(+17) damage!

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by Pin
Nothing would be wrong with it... Shame it was actually 627

Ohh so there`s nothing wrong with the damage.

But nurf Vendo instead.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Pin your maths is off.
For my calculation it equals which was wrong also, it should have been.

((.72 * 62) * 3.45) / 175 = .8800

Unstyled LA cap is 175 for the spiked hammer

Base Damage was 137 for the first style, so the style bonus is going to be 137 * .88 = 120.56

The difference between 0.88 and 0.9 is purely rounding errors.

Originally posted by old.Emma
137 + 120 = 257

So the style would have been.

You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+120)
You attack Downinshata with your hammer and hit for 257 damage!

No, because you haven't added the 7% bonus you get from the target's shit resists.... so 275 instead of 278 then if you want to use 0.88.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Ohh so there`s nothing wrong with the damage.

But nurf Vendo instead.

No, Carlos' and my point was that 317 damage on 2.7s delay is more/faster damage than main tanks get, and is also more than other light tanks get. You seriously should have NOTHING to complain about with 1.62 damage.

The added critical hit damage is your bonus for reduced defense (and is perfectly balanced in my opinion).

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by Pin
The difference between 0.88 and 0.9 is purely rounding errors.



No, because you haven't added the 7% bonus you get from the target's shit resists.... so 275 instead of 278 then if you want to use 0.88.

The game doesnt round up, it rounds down.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Ohh so there`s nothing wrong with the damage.

But nurf Vendo instead.

:doh:


Zerkers, even with a 42% reduction, STILL hit harder than other light tanks, your whining about nothing.


eg, StormriderX is a pierce specced RR8 BM, he hits my healer (19% effective resist) for FA, he struggles to break 200, and he's one of the hardest hitting around (for my chain at least)

Other blademasters/mercs dont even break 150 on mainhand...

Originally posted by old.Emma
The game doesnt round up, it rounds down.

Apparently when they rounded zerkers dmg, to save time they rounded it up to the next 1000.





If it makes u feel better, compare logs equally specced (weapon vs weapon / LA vs CD/DW spec) equally buffed, equally equipped between your zerker, and a blademaster or merc, then account for your 42% damage reduction (you could even account for Pins dodgy rounding an make it 50% ) compare dmg per style, and dmg over time, and you will see zerkers still come out on top, especially with 99% crits ;p

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Emma
The game doesnt round up, it rounds down.

no. the game rounds down for final damage numbers, and final hitpoints, etc, etc.


But your formula is full of rounded off numbers..

It's not exactly 0.72, it's not exactly 3.45, it's not exactly 175, it's not exactly 137, etc, etc, etc.

I wasn't saying that I rounded off your 0.88 to get my 0.9. I was saying that all the calculations contain marginal errors in them due to all those numbers being rounded off.

As I have no way of measuring the unstyled damage cap with your spec using that weapon there was no way for me to calculate the multiplier directly from that formula, so I had to come from the other end and thus introduce a different set of rounding errors.

You have to accept a certain tolerance level in all of those calculations and numbers. They are all approximations.

 

[mordia]

Its just a huge drop from god-like damage dealer to a uber one.

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Fafnir
Would be fun to see how albs/hibs would say if they lets say nerfed DW stun, LW stun/damage. FFS being hit for 570 by a blue con, while capped meele resists.

get rid of anytime stun at 42 shield, and then you can complain about a level50 reactionary/positional stun?

 

[froler-mid]

such strong whine!!!


too bad its getting kinda OLD now :/

 

[Litmus]

yea time to lock it up

 

[Teh Krypt]

a2 + b2 = c2

so...

(zerker)2 + (1.62)2 = (balanced)2

~ Whine.

 

[Danya]

By the way, I got my numbers by doing the following:

Take damage.
Subtract bonus from resists
Subtract style bonus
Add style bonus * 0.65 (I was using a 35% reduction, though you could easily recalculate for 42%).
Multiply by 1.07 for resists (resist calculated by damage/(damage-resist - it's 7%)

Thus for the first hit you get:
(376 - 25 - 214 + (214*0.65)) *1.07 = 295.4
With 42% reduction that would be
(376 - 25 - 214 + (214*0.58)) *1.07 = 279.4 a number remarkably close to Pin's

 

[klavrynd]

i wonder why people still throw with figures here

THE NERF IS THERE AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT NOT IN POSITIVE NOR NEGATIVE WAY

 

[Danya]

Klav, quit daoc already!