Rant This carbon footprint bollocks

[Gorbachioo]

I did come across a very interesting point about this.


When some people start conserving energy it means less demand for energy --> energy gets cheaper --> other people (especially the poor people) can afford to buy more --> the whole thing is rather pointless. ;O

Or is there a problem with this logic?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I did come across a very interesting point about this.


When some people start conserving energy it means less demand for energy --> energy gets cheaper --> other people (especially the poor people) can afford to buy more --> the whole thing is rather pointless. ;O

Or is there a problem with this logic?

Even if you probably make it into some big problem about being an ignorant a-hole again...

Less demand != cheap. Not necessarily. If demand goes down enough, they have to pump the price up just to cope.

One could say, if we conserve energy AND they CAN sell that "excess" energy to the poor without losing profit, that it would work.

Poor have mroe need for food then energy really and if they cope with the energy they got, they have little reason to buy more.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Even if you probably make it into some big problem about being an ignorant a-hole again...

Less demand != cheap. Not necessarily. If demand goes down enough, they have to pump the price up just to cope.

One could say, if we conserve energy AND they CAN sell that "excess" energy to the poor without losing profit, that it would work.

Poor have mroe need for food then energy really and if they cope with the energy they got, they have little reason to buy more.

How about you just drop the attitude already? ;O


When it comes to oil, demand will never go down. Our economies are growing all the time and that growth is based entirely on oil. There is always a buyer.


Poor people want to drive cars too, and once they can afford it they will.

 

[old.Tohtori]

How about you just drop the attitude already? ;O

When it comes to oil, demand will never go down. Our economies are growing all the time and that growth is based entirely on oil. There is always a buyer.

Poor people want to drive cars too, and once they can afford it they will.

See? Can't even answer what i said. I'm not the one with the attitude.

 

[Gorbachioo]

See? Can't even answer what i said. I'm not the one with the attitude.

You're whole argument was based on the (wrong) assumption that demand for oil would go down.


And people buy as much oil as they possibly can. The cheaper it is, the more they buy.


What did i leave unanswered?

as for the attitude: Why the hell do you drag old arguments in to new threads? Just get over it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You're whole argument was based on the (wrong) assumption that demand for oil would go down.

And people buy as much oil as they possibly can. The cheaper it is, the more they buy.

What did i leave unanswered?

as for the attitude: Why the hell do you drag old arguments in to new threads? Just get over it.

Didn't. You brought it up with your "people who do nothing whine" comment.

About oil, well, noone the f*ck said about oil. No wait, you did, so ofcourse i should've read your mind that you meant oil in your post before replying.

 

[Aoami]

Poor people want to drive cars too, and once they can afford it they will.

This was a relevant argument about 30 years ago. Cars are so cheap these days everyone can drive. Poor people (certainly in non 3rd world countrys) use all the energy they want anyway.

 

[Gorbachioo]

This was a relevant argument about 30 years ago. Cars are so cheap these days everyone can drive. Poor people (certainly in non 3rd world countrys) use all the energy they want anyway.

There are around 800 million cars in the world (correct the number if its wrong, but its around that anyway) and 6 billion people. So no.

If people in America are strugling to fill their gas tanks why do you think that people in Africa have it any easier?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Didn't. You brought it up with your "people who do nothing whine" comment.

About oil, well, noone the f*ck said about oil. No wait, you did, so ofcourse i should've read your mind that you meant oil in your post before replying.

Oil/energy.. no difference in this case.

And that was not aimed at you incase you're self centered enough to think that.

 

[tris-]

whats this **** doing back or am i thinking of someone else.

 

[Golena]

How about you just drop the attitude already? ;O

Only one person with an attitude problem here.. I quoted him as well.

 

[Golena]

There are around 800 million cars in the world (correct the number if its wrong, but its around that anyway) and 6 billion people. So no.

How many of those people are in 3rd world countries?
How many of those people are under the legal driving age?
How many of those people don't drive because they have yet to pass their test or don't feel the need to?
How many people share a car with their partner?

Want to come up with some meaningful numbers for a change?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oil/energy.. no difference in this case.

And that was not aimed at you incase you're self centered enough to think that.

In YOUR case. That's the point.

We were talking about energy. Not just oil.

I quoted you on the assumption you were talking about what was talked about.

And about "not being aimed", well, it's a discussion and MUCH LIKE YOU, i joined in when felt the need to comment on an issue.

 

[Gorbachioo]

How many of those people are in 3rd world countries?
How many of those people are under the legal driving age?
How many of those people don't drive because they have yet to pass their test or don't feel the need to?
How many people share a car with their partner?

Want to come up with some meaningful numbers for a change?

This discussion is pointless unless you're actually telling me that everyone on this planet have all the energy that they could possibly want. Are you?

 

[Gorbachioo]

In YOUR case. That's the point.

We were talking about energy. Not just oil.

I quoted you on the assumption you were talking about what was talked about.

And about "not being aimed", well, it's a discussion and MUCH LIKE YOU, i joined in when felt the need to comment on an issue.

Whether we were talking about energy or oil is pointless. Both are things that are always needed more and more and therefore there will always be a buyer.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Whether we were talking about energy or oil is pointless. Both are things that are always needed more and more and therefore there will always be a buyer.

Thanks for answering in a way that's discussion worthy.

Yes, energy in all forms is needed more and more, and if we look at it purely from that perspective then energy consumption is a good thing.

More demand, less price, cheaper energy, more for everyone.

But, more then often, prices don't drop due to massive demand, it just means they can keep the standard price, or even pump it up, and we're in no different situation.

If the energy providers thought about the world as a whole, then this would work nicely.

 

[Golena]

This discussion is pointless unless you're actually telling me that everyone on this planet have all the energy that they could possibly want. Are you?

People could produce more energy now and sell it more cheaply to those who need more but can't currently afford it, and still probably make a profit.
It's better to stockpile the energy they have then sell it at the still inflated price tommorow however.

 

[Gorbachioo]

People could produce more energy now and sell it more cheaply to those who need more but can't currently afford it, and still probably make a profit.
It's better to stockpile the energy they have then sell it at the still inflated price tommorow however.

yees.... and? What does this have to do with the topic? ;[

 

[Gorbachioo]

Thanks for answering in a way that's discussion worthy.

Yes, energy in all forms is needed more and more, and if we look at it purely from that perspective then energy consumption is a good thing.

More demand, less price, cheaper energy, more for everyone.

But, more then often, prices don't drop due to massive demand, it just means they can keep the standard price, or even pump it up, and we're in no different situation.

If the energy providers thought about the world as a whole, then this would work nicely.

What the hell? More demand = cheaper energy? Erh...? ;o

Why on earth would prices drop because of increased demand?

 

[Golena]

When some people start conserving energy it means less demand for energy --> energy gets cheaper --> other people (especially the poor people) can afford to buy more --> the whole thing is rather pointless. ;O

Or is there a problem with this logic?

yees.... and? What does this have to do with the topic? ;[

Do I really have to remind you what you wrote less than 24 hours ago?

It's like having a discussion with a goldfish, except the goldfish is less stupid.

 

[Golena]

Why on earth would prices drop because of increased demand?

Go try buying 1 playstation from China, tell me what price per unit they quote you.
Now go try buying 1,000,000 playstations from China, tell me what price per unit they quote you.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Do I really have to remind you what you wrote less than 24 hours ago?

It's like having a discussion with a goldfish, except the goldfish is less stupid.

lol...


Try explaining this and then i'll respond to you.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Go try buying 1 playstation from China, tell me what price per unit they quote you.
Now go try buying 1,000,000 playstations from China, tell me what price per unit they quote you.

What the hell are you on about?


God..

(im off now, see you tomorrow *_*)

 

[old.Tohtori]

What the hell? More demand = cheaper energy? Erh...? ;o

Why on earth would prices drop because of increased demand?

I ll write this as best as can.

You hav e a hot dog, you sell for 1 buck
People come and buy hot dog.
you notifce LOTS of poepkle want hotdog.
You still keep selling.
You get so muh prfit that you try 0.75buck for hotodog.
that bringsd more revenue.
You knoW?

even if you're contrdictin g yoiurself now.

 

[Raven]

What the hell? More demand = cheaper energy? Erh...? ;o

Why on earth would prices drop because of increased demand?

You are getting supply and demand mixed up.

Prices don't necessarily go up as demand rises its only when the supply can't match the demand that they do. Oil is being stockpiled and production slowed at the moment which is why the global price is going up, the demand hasn't really changed much over the last few years, at least in the west anyway.

Demand can actually lower the price of a product as different companies try to undercut each other, assuming there is enough supply.
^
Unless the company has a monopoly ofc or runs an illegal cartel where they fix prices. This usually results in heavy fines from the government though.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Energy production is struggling to keep up with demand right now.


Therefore more demand = higher price.


That might work with beer but not with energy.

 

[Raven]

Which is what I said....

Regardless, its not struggling to keep up at all, it is being stockpiled and thus the price is forced up because the supply is smaller than the demand.

simple economics

 

[Gorbachioo]

Which is what I said....

Regardless, its not struggling to keep up at all, it is being stockpiled and thus the price is forced up because the supply is smaller than the demand.

simple economics

No body knows how big of an effect the stockpilers have on todays oil prices. But thats not the only reason. Demand is higher than the suply even without the stockpiling


Anyway, why is this relevant? :C I mean.. it doesnt matter why the demand is higher than suply as long as it is. Right? -,-

 

[Raven]

Yes it does matter seeing as this is about global warming and such, the demand for oil hasn't gone up in the west, if anything its gone down. The reason for the price hike, aside from tax is because the people producing the oil are throttling its supply. There is still plenty of oil to be pumped up and even more yet to be discovered.

Why on earth do you think the US gives a shit about the middle east but not places that truly are fucked, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma etc. Its not about the people its about access to oil.

 

[Raven]

Anyway. Global warming is not proven despite what some "experts" say. The fact that thousands of years ago America was mostly covered in water and there were no ice caps seems to evade most of these "experts" on the flip side the seas were so low at the end of the ice age that there was a land bridge from Africa to South America which is how the first "Indians" got there. The ice sheets naturally recede and form over the years.

I remember blistering hot summers when I was a lad that lasted months, these days we get a couple of weeks of sunshine and thats it.