The whole 1.62 LA nerf is blown way out of proportion...

T

Trinilim

Guest
well, if you want to be an all out damage class, then you want to be either:

A. zerker

B. savage

C. 2h warrior


Incase you didn't know the specifics about each class, here they are:

Zerkers:

Wear studded armor, can use 2 weapons through the normal weapon spec and the Left Axe spec. You can also use 2handers. At the moment the LA spec is bugged/overpowered and you'll be doing an obscene amount of damage, but this is fixed next patch, so you won't be doing AS MUCH damage, but you'll still be hitting like a ton of bricks. The zerker's special ability is his Beserk mode, in which he turns into a giant hamster. You lose all defense (evade/parry) and in return you critical every hit you land. In rvr while you're beserked you can do up to 100% crits (do 500 damage, critical for 500 damage, totalling 1,000 damage), while everyone else can only do up to 50% crits. Note: you are limited to 50% crits while not beserked.


Savages:

Studded armor, can use 2 weapons through the hand to hand spec or 2 handers. Savages get self enhancements buffs that last for 30 seconds at the expense of some of your hp (approx 10% of your hp per buff at 50). These buffs include: higher evade chance, higher parry chance, haste, higher damage, and all melee resists up to 26%. Savages get the special ability to double, triple, and quadruple hit. If you have 2 weapons, you can triple and quadruple hit (10% chance to triple, 5% chance to quadruple at 50). If you have a 2hander, you can only double hit.

2handed warriors:

The highest 2h damage of all realms (implemented by mythic). Wears chain armor. Can't really tell you much about it as I've never played one :).

Imho roll a zerk, because even though they're being nerfed, they'll still hit for a lot, and you won't be seen as a FOTM.
 
O

old.Nol

Guest
Originally posted by StormriderX
Kill a shammy and people start firing end potions, thats all I'm saying.

As for catching healers - get your tanks to get pf.

Regardless of which class you take down first they are still going to get PR if it is available. Take a healer down first, and one of the other 2 can PR that one, you're back at square one with regards to healing, plus the rest of the group all still has an end buff for perma sprint & styles. The shammy only has to buff one rezzed person now as opposed to 7, and I think even the best shammy's gonna struggle to buff their entire group in the middle of combat.

3 healers = 3 PF, 1 shammy = 1 PF and it's stupid to be relying on a 14 minute RA IMO anyway. If you think there is a better formula, put it down and give reasons.
 
S

StormriderX

Guest
Originally posted by old.Nol
Regardless of which class you take down first they are still going to get PR if it is available. Take a healer down first, and one of the other 2 can PR that one, you're back at square one with regards to healing, plus the rest of the group all still has an end buff for perma sprint & styles. The shammy only has to buff one rezzed person now as opposed to 7, and I think even the best shammy's gonna struggle to buff their entire group in the middle of combat.

3 healers = 3 PF, 1 shammy = 1 PF and it's stupid to be relying on a 14 minute RA IMO anyway. If you think there is a better formula, put it down and give reasons.

PF is a passive ra not timered :)

As for zmurf i know you do a lot more than provide end :p

Still prefer to gank healers personally, imo its easier to gank something being healed by 2 healers + 1 shammy than 3 healers (providing said healer doesnt moc)...
 
O

old.Nol

Guest
My bad about pf, but I still belive it makes better sense to take the shammy down first.
 
B

Begach

Guest
Originally posted by gutrot
well, yeh, ok...but the 'assassin killer' was an available role when i decided what char to roll next... so i spent a lot of time levelling to 50 to play that role....then its taken away from me in a single patch.


Do empathise here mate an mythic need a serious slap upside the fuckin head for allowing the continued usability of a class to be based on a bug one of their muppets introduced a long time ago. But it still aint right dude.

Tbh i doubt it's the fact SZ and zerker do huge dmg that pisses people off. It's the fact that it requires no skill an little other than some anytime style spamming to acheive this high dmg output. An infil or NS hitting every reactionary chain bang on the money can do some feckin huge dmg over time. The reason ppl aint pissin an moaning is because a) it requires a certain chain of events to acheive b) requires correct and differing action dependant on the situation or YOU WILL LOSE. Stealthing up to some guy an tearing him a new ass without any subtlty or finesse (sp) just goes against the spirit of the assasin class imo.

Now i haven't got any answers here tbh. Mythic have fucked up the class and imo

RR1+ v's inf your now gonna be outmatched

RR5+ vs NS or inf you now gonna be outmatched

All i can suggest is FIRST ACTUALLY TRY CB. Find you some warders to bish slap in emain an see how it goes, it might not be too bad with armour effeciency in action etc. An scream an whine at mythic like a $2 hoe (hire the mincer TL, he'll have you a feckin rocket launcher RA in no time at all ;) ) to kick thier asses now that they took your high anytime dmg away an gave you feckall in return. RA's, styles etc to acheive balance or mythic'll just say no (unless it's the mincer TL).

I said alot an generaly feckall here. Was just realy to say yeah we (read me) are aware that you got fucked over. Just we (again read as meh) consider ourselves fucked over first by the very fact you could spec SZ in the first place.

B.
 
V

vintervargen

Guest
shammy could be good to take down fast if the grp aint buffbotted,,
 
B

bloodclot

Guest
i will stay with my zerker.

it was my first char of retail daoc. started in october 2002. in the beta i had a warrior. but i liked dual wielding more.

i hardly use double frost in rvr. mostly snowsqual on the casters who are running away. and don't use zerk often cuase if you go zerk-mode. hibs and albs get a big sign on dem screen obove the zerker: KILL ME FIRST!
 
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old.Nol

Guest
Originally posted by bloodclot
i will stay with my zerker.

it was my first char of retail daoc. started in october 2002. in the beta i had a warrior. but i liked dual wielding more.

i hardly use double frost in rvr. mostly snowsqual on the casters who are running away. and don't use zerk often cuase if you go zerk-mode. hibs and albs get a big sign on dem screen obove the zerker: KILL ME FIRST!

I have a permanent kill me first sign, it's a banjo...
 
Z

zmurf

Guest
This is kindda like slizing my wrists i guess but, if u land a GOOD mezz, hell just a insta mezz id say killing shaman first is by far best, with a little luck they didn't use buffbot and all tanks just lost 7X str con dex qui, all healer's now take 0.5sec to cast heal's (ca) and u won't get diseased(u can still get rooted from pac healer), and THEN going for a healer, but in case where u get jumped, i guess storm is right, hope for moc not to be rdy and kill the ****ing mend healer, which is a pain in the ass cause a group with 3 healers (1 shaman) it's allmost surtain SOMEONE got moc up :) (if it's a high enough rr group for all to have moc ofc)
 
Z

zmurf

Guest
Originally posted by old.Nol
I have a permanent kill me first sign, it's a banjo...

In mythic we trust, imo instrument's should only be used to start song, but hey, that's just my opinion :/
 
V

vintervargen

Guest
Originally posted by zmurf
In mythic we trust, imo instrument's should only be used to start song, but hey, that's just my opinion :/

2 x]
 
G

Gahldir

Guest
Originally posted by old.Nol
My bad about pf, but I still belive it makes better sense to take the shammy down first.

sure, problem will be to keep those 2+ healers CC'd/interupted untill the shammy is dead ;)
 
G

gutrot

Guest
Originally posted by Begach
Do empathise here mate an mythic need a serious slap upside the fuckin head for allowing the continued usability of a class to be based on a bug one of their muppets introduced a long time ago. But it still aint right dude.

Tbh i doubt it's the fact SZ and zerker do huge dmg that pisses people off. It's the fact that it requires no skill an little other than some anytime style spamming to acheive this high dmg output. An infil or NS hitting every reactionary chain bang on the money can do some feckin huge dmg over time. The reason ppl aint pissin an moaning is because a) it requires a certain chain of events to acheive b) requires correct and differing action dependant on the situation or YOU WILL LOSE. Stealthing up to some guy an tearing him a new ass without any subtlty or finesse (sp) just goes against the spirit of the assasin class imo.

Now i haven't got any answers here tbh. Mythic have fucked up the class and imo

RR1+ v's inf your now gonna be outmatched

RR5+ vs NS or inf you now gonna be outmatched

All i can suggest is FIRST ACTUALLY TRY CB. Find you some warders to bish slap in emain an see how it goes, it might not be too bad with armour effeciency in action etc. An scream an whine at mythic like a $2 hoe (hire the mincer TL, he'll have you a feckin rocket launcher RA in no time at all ;) ) to kick thier asses now that they took your high anytime dmg away an gave you feckall in return. RA's, styles etc to acheive balance or mythic'll just say no (unless it's the mincer TL).

I said alot an generaly feckall here. Was just realy to say yeah we (read me) are aware that you got fucked over. Just we (again read as meh) consider ourselves fucked over first by the very fact you could spec SZ in the first place.

B.

I cant believe they didnt just lower DF damage really, i mean thats what ppl seem wound up about like you say.... the reality of DF is that its not the most damaging style and one cannot simply spam it cos its an end hog (end regen is gone for 95% of my fights). I do not spam DF, im sure most other sb past rr2 dont either. SS+IB far better, but tricky to pull off unless lucky opener or stun. :)
im sure i responded to you in another thread? wheres that gone then.....i will look :)
 
D

dakeyras

Guest
Originally posted by Trinilim



If you have a 2hander, you can only double hit.


This is another of the urban myths surrounding savages.

You cannot get double hits as a 2H savage.
 
Z

zmurf

Guest
Originally posted by gutrot
I cant believe they didnt just lower DF damage really, i mean thats what ppl seem wound up about like you say.... the reality of DF is that its not the most damaging style and one cannot simply spam it cos its an end hog (end regen is gone for 95% of my fights). I do not spam DF, im sure most other sb past rr2 dont either. SS+IB far better, but tricky to pull off unless lucky opener or stun. :)
im sure i responded to you in another thread? wheres that gone then.....i will look :)

Lowering DF would help, around nothing, most sb's use snowblind and serker's mainly use Snowsquall and icy brilliance, which is where the real dmg is ..
 
G

gutrot

Guest
Originally posted by zmurf
Lowering DF would help, around nothing, most sb's use snowblind and serker's mainly use Snowsquall and icy brilliance, which is where the real dmg is ..

it would help stop ppl whining about our so-called overpowered anytime style, but it wouldnt stop the more skillful players doing good dmg with positionals/chains, which is how it should be imo.
 
O

old.Nol

Guest
Originally posted by Gahldir
sure, problem will be to keep those 2+ healers CC'd/interupted untill the shammy is dead ;)

yep, like stubbe resisting my hugely overpowered lull 7 times in one fight :/
 
V

vintervargen

Guest
Originally posted by gutrot
it would help stop ppl whining about our so-called overpowered anytime style, but it wouldnt stop the more skillful players doing good dmg with positionals/chains, which is how it should be imo.

yes of course, just that

zerks hits harder and faster then a (for example) spear hero using 2h spear with 5+ speed. (both using positionals)
 
A

AbPoon

Guest
And youd know this because you have a Spearo or a zerker that youve played reg in rvr or because of some mega high ss's youve seen? ;)

Yes LA needed bringing back into line but your not talking sence, also your comparing a class that needs one line at 50 for best variance highest wep skill and styles to a class that needs two lines at 50 for the same thing ^^
 
A

AbPoon

Guest
Also LA only has one positional and thats high lvl so its hard to compare :p
 
J

jollyroger

Guest
162hamster.JPG
 
S

Subbiz

Guest
they are going the wrong way around nerfing zerkers. its so easy just removing damage when theres much more serious issues to sort!
 
M

mac_kraakebolle

Guest
well they could have made the nerf more controlled.....

If the zerkers had participated in negotiating the nerf, but all the players AND the TL mannaged to do was ask to be more powerfull.
So blaim yourselves and your TL
 
O

old.Wildfire

Guest
tbh the healers piss me off more than the zerks, they're what needs nerfing imo - and u say mids dont have any uber RAs? what do you call PR on whichever of your group's three/four heal-specced classes goes down first?

ok go!
we're on the healer...
<healer dies>
<another healer PRs>
ok thats another healer then!
we're on the healer...
<healer dies>
<first healer PRs>
<groan>

when you've got 4 characters in a group that are always in a position to res unless they're under attack (emphasis on 4 here), as opposed to wardens/bards/pallies/friars who have to break combat, it becomes nigh-on impossible to take the group down when you think that the other 4 characters are very often 3 zerkers with determination and purge, and a skald - all of which are beating the shit out of your CC and support classes.

Lately TB have been running 2x cleric 1x friar 1x pally 1x sorc 1x mins + 2 tanks which is largely regarded as the "perfect" alb group setup. It is still impossible to beat groups like NP even when I land the first mezz, root the ones that purge, and everyone assists properly. Another group of albs (SS or BF for example) can add as well, and it's still a 50/50 chance whether we can win or not. The only RAs that are ever going to help our players are things like AoM and Aug <whatever>, all of which most people already have as prerequisites. Our clerics have BOF, our mincers have SOS.... and against the healer/shammy zerg it means jack shit.

Zerkers needed to be nerfed because yes, their damage is sickening at times, but they're really not where the problem lies in the realm.
 
O

old.Emma

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
tbh the healers piss me off more than the zerks, they're what needs nerfing imo - and u say mids dont have any uber RAs? what do you call PR on whichever of your group's three/four heal-specced classes goes down first?

ok go!
we're on the healer...
<healer dies>
<another healer PRs>
ok thats another healer then!
we're on the healer...
<healer dies>
<first healer PRs>
<groan>

when you've got 4 characters in a group that are always in a position to res unless they're under attack (emphasis on 4 here), as opposed to wardens/bards/pallies/friars who have to break combat, it becomes nigh-on impossible to take the group down when you think that the other 4 characters are very often 3 zerkers with determination and purge, and a skald - all of which are beating the shit out of your CC and support classes.

Lately TB have been running 2x cleric 1x friar 1x pally 1x sorc 1x mins + 2 tanks which is largely regarded as the "perfect" alb group setup. It is still impossible to beat groups like NP even when I land the first mezz, root the ones that purge, and everyone assists properly. Another group of albs (SS or BF for example) can add as well, and it's still a 50/50 chance whether we can win or not. The only RAs that are ever going to help our players are things like AoM and Aug <whatever>, all of which most people already have as prerequisites. Our clerics have BOF, our mincers have SOS.... and against the healer/shammy zerg it means jack shit.

Zerkers needed to be nerfed because yes, their damage is sickening at times, but they're really not where the problem lies in the realm.

I cant see how you dont win, when you combine RA`s like BoF/SoS/Faith Heal along with 2 clerics which are probably specced for rejuv giving 2 insta heals, and 2 insta groups heals. If you cant survive 2-3 zerkers with next to no magical power then your doing something wrong.
 
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Gorbash

Guest
Originally posted by old.Emma
I cant see how you dont win, when you combine RA`s like BoF/SoS/Faith Heal along with 2 clerics which are probably specced for rejuv giving 2 insta heals, and 2 insta groups heals. If you cant survive 2-3 zerkers with next to no magical power then your doing something wrong.

what utter bull.

have you ever HAD 3 zerkers on your arse before? no healer on the planet could keep you alive longer than 10 seconds.
 
O

old.Wildfire

Guest
You're missing the point completely - the problem with having so many healers and shammies in one group is that they can tie up your offensive classes indefinitely until the zerks have finished doing their job (which doesnt take long). Doing their job meaning; killing our healers and ressers, hence one of our healers is immediately taken out of consideration, and for any chance of a res one of our cheap-o ressers has to break combat, wait for X seconds etc.... it just doesnt work.
 

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