The Matrix (AGAIN) Spoiler city.

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Damini

Guest
This thread is just to take the spoilers to elsewhere, and I've found some very precise spoilerage, which begins to explain half the stuff me and Kenny wandered out of the cinema going "Hrm? So... if...then...?"





The Architect creates a virtual simulation of a human paradise, it fails as stated by agent smith in the first movie. ( This was the Matrix version 1.0 )

The Architect decides to create a second matrix which replicates all the disasters/tragedies of human history and as the Architect (Coronal Sanders looking guy) states "Its grandeur was only surpassed by it's monumental failure" ( This was the Matrix version 2.0 )

In an effort to figure out why, he enlists the help of another program (The Queen of the matrix) who suggests to him that the minds be given a choice even if its an unconscious one, which he does. But although the tries account for all possibilities, some minds make the choice NOT to go to the matrix. These minds go to Zion (The real world), which is in fact a simulation as the matrix is, except the minds in this simulation believe they are free. (This is matrix version 3.0)

Simply, If there is no choice, the matrix would break down so he doesn't want these minds in the matrix anyway because they would cause its destruction.

Also as a side effect to its programming, there is an anomaly. In programming terms an anomaly is a bug or a side effect in a systems programming where the programmer cant figure out what it is or why it happens. In most circumstances, a programmer (in this case the Architect) will try to calculate all possibilities of what the anomaly will do and try to program around them.

So what the architect did was use this anomaly (Neo) to collect data about why people are rejecting the choice to go to the matrix, then use that data to report back to "the source" which clears out zion, reloads the matrix and starts over with the improvements Neo brought to the source. At which point the anomaly is reprogrammed to pull 16 men and women from the matrix to restart Zion which is where the "prophecy" comes from, restarting the whole process and explaining why the movie is called the matrix RELOADED.

As the Architect stated, this happed five times before, Neo being the sixth.

So Five times before, when the anomaly (Neo) surfaces, he programmed it to find its way back to the source. Because the anomaly is human (or at least a human living inside the matrix/Zion simulation), it must believe the decisions are a choice or the Matrix programming will fail. Which is signified by the red pill, blue pill crap and the two doors which neo has to choose to reload the matrix with the "code" he's carrying or save
Trinity.

It is clear that the architect tried to take into account all the possibilities of Neos actions as signified by all the TV screens in his office, his current choice is the one he accounted for which is the screen it focuses in on.

This time the anomaly is different, he's in love which throws the Architects system out of whack. He saves Trinity, which in turn is supposed to save Zion but kill everyone hooked into the system. Zion was destroyed anyway for reasons below.

Programming software is allot like determining probabilities, so the Architect created programs (Oracle, agents, etc) to help increase probability that the choices the minds make are to his favor.

Oracle:
Her function is to get people who didn't make the choice to stay in the matrix out. Because if they are left in, the matrix will fail as it did 2 times before. Being that the only way the Matrix functions properly is to make the minds believe they are making a choice, she is programmed to make other minds (such as Morpheus) believe they are choosing to free people and bring them Zion. But this is actually important to the Architect because if those people stay in the matrix, it crashes.

Agents:
Although agents seem to be always working against them, but all they really are are tools to help increase probability that the minds (Warriors of Zion) have a strong belief system that they want to be free. Which also increases probability that the citizens of Zion will pull more and more people out of the matrix and into the Zion simulation, which lowers the probability of the matrix failing again.



So there you go. I quite liked the film to be honest, though I thought it was quite obvious when they turned it into exactly the same graphics I expect they use in the game sequences, and it didn't have the inherent cool of the original matrix, which I think is down to the fact that it was more of a sci fi film than the original cyber punk type one.

But I did get a bit tangled up on the plot towards the end. I wasn't sure if Zion was gone or not at the end, and I wasn't sure if they were still in the Matrix always, or whether after the architect scene they were tricked into thinking they had left the matrix, but were still inside. You know, like that shit star trek film with fatty Kirk and skinny Picard.
 
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Tom

Guest
I think a key part of what you just said Damini is the bit at the end where Neo stops the sentinels outside the Matrix. Either he is still 'wired in' to the Matrix when outside it, or he's just discovered some new powers.
 
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Sar

Guest
Zion is a part of the Matrix.

Good post Lou, well put :)
 
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Sir Frizz

Guest
Originally posted by Damini


The Architect creates a virtual simulation of a human paradise, it fails as stated by agent smith in the first movie. ( This was the Matrix version 1.0 )

The Architect decides to create a second matrix which replicates all the disasters/tragedies of human history and as the Architect (Coronal Sanders looking guy) states "Its grandeur was only surpassed by it's monumental failure" ( This was the Matrix version 2.0 )


I thought the italicised quote was part of v.1.

But otherwise, yeah, that basically put the film into perspective for me. :)
 
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Damini

Guest
Oh, don't even begin to believe that that's my explanation for the film. That was posted on the intrepid forums.

My explanation would go a bit like this:

The oracle lady is part of the computer, but she could be nice, but she's could not be, but basically she's doing her job, and the keymaker is a small oriental man who dies, and Neo waves his hand and stops the sentinels but then passes out because he's confused.
 
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Sar

Guest
Hehe

Think of Zion/The Real World, as the Recycle Bin of the Matrix OS, where all the undesirable elements of the OS are put by it in order to maintain order within the main program.

Every hundred years or so the Recycle Bin gets emptied, presumably because there's too many deleted items in there, and the OS gets rebooted (Reloaded).

:)
 
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Clowneh!

Guest
Originally posted by Damini
This thread is just to take the spoilers to elsewhere, and I've found some very precise spoilerage, which begins to explain half the stuff me and Kenny wandered out of the cinema going "Hrm? So... if...then...?"

too late heh, good thread tho heh
 
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Nos-

Guest
If Zion is indeed part of the Matrix then there is no real way to free humanity of the system and thus imo Revolutions will be shit :/

I'm hoping that this is not the case.
 
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Sar

Guest
Originally posted by Nos-
If Zion is indeed part of the Matrix then there is no real way to free humanity of the system and thus imo Revolutions will be shit :/

I'm hoping that this is not the case.

Why not, that's exactly what Neo appears to have done at the end.

He maybe in a coma in Zion, but in the real reality, he's unplugged.

When he made the realisation about the nature of Zion being a level of the Matrix, his mind was opened in just the same way it was while he was training with Morpheus in the first film. In this way he disconnected his consciousness from the Matrix properly.

Think that's far-fetched?

Look at it this way - how do the trio (Neo, Morpheus & Trinity) look to Link and the rest of the Zion world while they're in the Matrix? Like they're sleeping/comatose.

I've a feeling the prophecy will come to pass - albeit at a higher level of reality than the Oracle ever intended it to. Neo is the first to become truly unplugged - his mission henceforth is to free more minds from both the Matrix & Zion.
 
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Clowneh!

Guest
Originally posted by Sar
He maybe in a coma in Zion, but in the real reality, he's unplugged

i thought the place where everyone is plugged in is the same place as zion. so hes s=unplugged in the same reality as zion, which doesnt matter cuz another matrix controls all that too maybe
 
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Sar

Guest
No, because the "unplugging" of Neo in film 1 wasn't a real unplugging, merely a removal from one version of the Matrix to another.

Think of it like this:

Reality
Matrix/Zion

in descending orders of "reality", where Reality is real, and Zion is a matrix within/alongside The Matrix.

Neo at the end of Reloaded has unplugged from the Zion program to a higher level - which one assumes is the real "real world".
 
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Clowneh!

Guest
oh i didnt know he was unplugged from the zion system at the end of reloaded. i havent seen it. i tihnk i know the whole storyline now anyway tho :mad:
 
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Nos-

Guest
Originally posted by Sar
Why not, that's exactly what Neo appears to have done at the end.

He maybe in a coma in Zion, but in the real reality, he's unplugged.

When he made the realisation about the nature of Zion being a level of the Matrix, his mind was opened in just the same way it was while he was training with Morpheus in the first film. In this way he disconnected his consciousness from the Matrix properly.

Think that's far-fetched?

I didn't say it was far fetched. I'm just hoping that this is not the case, otherwise I'm not holding out hope that revolutions will be any good, basically!
 
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Sar

Guest
Originally posted by Nos-
I didn't say it was far fetched. I'm just hoping that this is not the case, otherwise I'm not holding out hope that revolutions will be any good, basically!

I'm hoping it is.

Well we know it is anyway, because the Architect told us as much in his meeting with Neo.
 
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(Shovel)

Guest
Originally posted by Clowneh!
oh i didnt know he was unplugged from the zion system at the end of reloaded. i havent seen it. i tihnk i know the whole storyline now anyway tho :mad:

We don't know that he was. It seems plausible though.

It makes the line from the first film: "Have you ever had a dream, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?" rather more poingient.
 
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Tom

Guest
You know how all the 'in the matrix' footage had a green grade to it.....

:uhoh:
 
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Scooba Da Bass

Guest
Originally posted by (Shovel)
We don't know that he was. It seems plausible though.

It makes the line from the first film: "Have you ever had a dream, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?" rather more poingient.

Your new avatar is suggs.
 
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leggy

Guest
Nice thread Damini.

After reading that it does actually make a lot more sense to me. I had slept about 5 hours in 2 days before going to see it and it truly felt like I had been given a frontal labotomy afterwards.

I think another visit to it may be in order.
 
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(Shovel)

Guest
Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
Your new avatar is suggs.

No... it's me... it just came out badly when I resized to 50x50. I think I'll do it again at some point...
 
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nath

Guest
Hmm.

Did anyone else see that coming? (That Zion wasn't real). At the end of the first matrix, all I thought about was "how do they know they've been unplugged, perhaps that's all fake too?"

Oh and about neo stopping the sentinels. Are you so sure he did? The ship came along fairly quickly after he collapsed, I got the distinct impression that it fired an EMP blast. Meanwhile Neo is there saying "LOOK LOOK IT'S ME I'M DOING IT!!" "uhh.. look behind you neo, you turd".

edit: And another thing, did anyone think Neo was considerably less hard in this than he was in the last 2 mins of the matrix? I mean he does that superfast shit where his arms go all blurry. None of that in this film, infact he just seemed fast and powerful, but not a demigod like he should have been.

edit 2: And by the by, 95% of the action in this film bored the piss out of me. Despite the fact that the action in the first matrix was far less spectacular, it was way more exciting and new. The fight with the pole and the hundreds of Smith's was very dull imo and the car chase was uninspired. I quite liked the fight with the vampire fellas in the hall of the big house: I think that was because of the music more than anything else. All in all, my opinion on this film is pretty much opposite to all of the reviews you may find. The action was pretty shit, the ideas were interesting (although they didn't really sink in untill after the film).
 
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Sar

Guest
Originally posted by nath
Oh and about neo stopping the sentinels. Are you so sure he did? The ship came along fairly quickly after he collapsed, I got the distinct impression that it fired an EMP blast. Meanwhile Neo is there saying "LOOK LOOK IT'S ME I'M DOING IT!!" "uhh.. look behind you neo, you turd".

No, because the ship has to be totally powered down for it to fire an EMP, otherwise it would disable itself into the bargain. The Havaland or whatever it was called, was completely powered up as it happened upon the scene more or less, as you state, immediately.
 
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nath

Guest
Are you certain of that though? They always seem to powerdown to hide from the machines, then charge the EMP incase they get close. So does the EMP really need the ship to be completely off?
 
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old.I_Am_Glen

Guest
rember when star wars empire strike bak came out?

every1 "shit film, 1st is better" lalalalla etc

now

"omg rox"

reloaded wil b same.

ideas were interesting (although they didn't really sink in untill after the film).

ya :// i lieked it more few hrs after it finished..an thought about more
 
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Krazeh

Guest
Well i'd assume that seeing as EMP disables all electrical equipment in it's blast radius you wouldn't want to set it off onboard a hover ship that happens to be hovering around at the time.
 

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