News The Greeks are playing a dangerous game...

[rynnor]

Announcing a referendum to try and improve their already good deal is probably the straw that broke the camels back - so much for the German lead eurozone plan - that now seems dead...

 

[Moriath]

I hope the greeks vote to not take the deal ... and that leads to the break up of the Eurozone to a greater or lesser extent.

Just because it will be interesting to see what happens and all.

Better than boring bumbling status quo (not the group )

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/greeks-punch-gift-horse-in-the-face-201111014490/

 

[rynnor]

I hope the greeks vote to not take the deal ... and that leads to the break up of the Eurozone to a greater or lesser extent.

It would be good news for the UK as we wouldnt end up in the second string of the EU.

 

[Yrendan]

As a greek I have one thing to say! Someone must kill our politicians! They stole billions and billions with 10-15 bankers the last 37 years and now they are f*cking us up.

 

[Moriath]

As a greek I have one thing to say! Someone must kill our politicians! They stole billions and billions with 10-15 bankers the last 37 years and now they are f*cking us up.

they had to pay for the olympics some how heheh .. we will be in the same state after our olympics probably

 

[Yrendan]

Not only the olympics m8! Bankers gave huge loans to greece via corrupted politicians (people didnt know all this was happening...) so they can buy overpriced weapons from france and germany.

 

[throdgrain]

I was under the impression a lot of Greeks dont pay thier taxes, correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[Yrendan]

No m8 average greek cannot avoid taxes! Only the 3 % of greeks avoid taxes and they are businessmen bankers etc.
Thats why the last 2 years 200 billion euro moved from greek banks to swiss banks!

 

[Job]

I'm interested in what would happen if the world economy did collapse. obviously it would only go so far, it's not like a Jenga tower collapse, more of a fucking massive adjustment. The German leader mentioned war, not sure who would declare on who.
If all the credit gets pulled, banks go bust, would people not go to work? Would companies just shut shop and everyone with anything of value just run for the hills.
We could keep it all going if everyone stayed calm and there was enough food and water, all the infrastructure of an economy would be exactly the same as the day before the crash, it could only go bust on paper (hard disk).
Are there big boys in grey suits waiting in the lifeboats, ready to start a new world order after the shooting stops...any ideas?

 

[Tuthmes]

The problem is that capitalism isnt working. The more wealth is generated the more it's obvious it's just a big balloon filled with hot air. We need a system that's safe, provides a general level of stable wealth for everyone and has oppertunities for growth/awards.

Now we'll just see everyone moving to the far end of the political spectrum, with all the consequences attached to it.

Anyone arguing against it is just sticking his head in the sand. All this talk about Greece... Spain has 22% unemployment. Italy has it's interrest at 7% (unpayable). The USA housing market is still crashing (well so it is in the Netherlands), unemployment is about the same as Spain (numbers are calculated differently) and the dollar is weak, but funny enough that's also keeping their economy going. Japan is pumping out the currency like a mofo and has to keep on doing that, because their Yen is too expensive. The list goes on and on.

 

[Raven]

I totally agree that capitalism isn't working but then neither is socialism. I certainly wouldn't want a system that rewards lazyness (socialism) but we need to come up with something else.

 

[Himse]

The problem is that capitalism isnt working. The more wealth is generated the more it's obvious it's just a big balloon filled with hot air. We need a system that's safe, provides a general level of stable wealth for everyone and has oppertunities for growth/awards.

Now we'll just see everyone moving to the far end of the political spectrum, with all the consequences attached to it.

Anyone arguing against it is just sticking his head in the sand. All this talk about Greece... Spain has 22% unemployment. Italy has it's interrest at 7% (unpayable). The USA housing market is still crashing (well so it is in the Netherlands), unemployment is about the same as Spain (numbers are calculated differently) and the dollar is weak, but funny enough that's also keeping their economy going. Japan is pumping out the currency like a mofo and has to keep on doing that, because their Yen is too expensive. The list goes on and on.

???????

Let's not even talk about communism / socialism on any level.

Capitalism>Socialism every day of the week. No matter how much the poor hate the rich, without the divide we'd all be stuck like North Korea.

 

[pez]

I'm interested in what would happen if the world economy did collapse. obviously it would only go so far, it's not like a Jenga tower collapse, more of a fucking massive adjustment. The German leader mentioned war, not sure who would declare on who.
If all the credit gets pulled, banks go bust, would people not go to work?

Well, you'd stop getting paid. Would you go to work?

 

[Tuthmes]

I totally agree that capitalism isn't working but then neither is socialism. I certainly wouldn't want a system that rewards lazyness (socialism) though but we need to come up with something else.

Agreed. Although I'm not sure about what defines lazyness. Sitting at home getting a paycheck while having a laugh isn't acceptable. Taking care of your childeren and or husband/wife isn't. But that hardly acceptable anymore in today's society. Yet we wonder why society has changed so much for the worse. But I suppose that's part of another discussion.

I don't see socialism as lazyness though, more as a way of working for eachother to make a better country.

 

[Job]

I spend many a sleepless night trying to prise out the fundamentals from bartering and all it's derivatives,
what exactly does improve as an economy grows? More people make more stuff for you to exchange your 'value' with, is it just increased complexity? It seems after 200 years of industrial revolution we have more knowledge and more 'stuff', the things that pull us out of poverty, access to warmth, food, water, health care and safety are all just gadgets really, the difference between you and homeless vagrant sitting in a third world country. If you pull the plug, where do we all drain out to? How do you make someone else make you something you need, it's up there with 'before the big bang' with me.

 

[Tuthmes]

???????

Let's not even talk about communism / socialism on any level.

Capitalism>Socialism every day of the week. No matter how much the poor hate the rich, without the divide we'd all be stuck like North Korea.

Capitalism is just a form of modern slavery. When the money dries up, the poor are even worse of then when they would have been in a socialistic state. Not even mentioning if the capitalistic system is fair or not. Socialism is a bit more then just North Korea, but I suppose if you only lived in the USA or England that's something you never learned.

 

[Tuthmes]

I spend many a sleepless night trying to prise out the fundamentals from bartering and all it's derivatives,
what exactly does improve as an economy grows? More people make more stuff for you to exchange your 'value' with, is it just increased complexity? It seems after 200 years of industrial revolution we have more knowledge and more 'stuff', the things that pull us out of poverty, access to warmth, food, water, health care and safety are all just gadgets really, the difference between you and homeless vagrant sitting in a third world country. If you pull the plug, where do we all drain out to? How do you make someone else make you something you need, it's up there with 'before the big bang' with me.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speed-up-american-workers-long-hours?page=1

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010...-1976-went-to-top-1-and-why-that-matters.html

 

[Himse]

Capitalism is just a form of modern slavery. When the money dries up, the poor are even worse of then when they would have been in a socialistic state. Not even mentioning if the capitalistic system is fair or not. Socialism is a bit more then just North Korea, but I suppose if you only lived in the USA or England that's something you never learned.

'Modern slavery'?

Not really, if you want to make money you can, many people have proven to do it.

Socialism would never give you the chance to do that, you're stuck.

You always have to have a divide, whether it be leader>people or rich>poor.

 

[ECA]

If Greece votes no, it pretty much means default, and getting kicked out of the euro, lower confidence in the markets which might force italy/portugal/spain into further worsening positions and hopefully the fiery death of the euro and the EU.

one time greece, one time.

 

[Tuthmes]

'Modern slavery'?

Not really, if you want to make money you can, many people have proven to do it.

Socialism would never give you the chance to do that, you're stuck.

You always have to have a divide, whether it be leader>people or rich>poor.

Not everyone is in the position to make money. If the market is poor like it is now, businesses determine who will work for them. Which in short will always be the one that accepts the lowest pay. Also not everyone is able todo every job. We are not all gifted with a genius brain, or the skills of a plumber, or a painter, etc, etc.

Also you can have a shitty job that pays very well, but you don't last for a year. Or you can get a job that pays poor, but one you are content with for years.

leader>people = slavery.
rich>poor = LoL?

I respect people for what and how they are, not how much money they make/have.

You have a very narrow minded view of people Himse.

 

[Embattle]

As a greek I have one thing to say! Someone must kill our politicians! They stole billions and billions with 10-15 bankers the last 37 years and now they are f*cking us up.

Most the Mediterranean countries seem to suffer the same sort of problems from top to bottom, I don't buy in to the argument that the top is purely to blame.

The simple fact is both Capitalism and Communism have problems and have been corrupted, the reality never has lived up to the ideals.

 

[throdgrain]

 

[Himse]

Not everyone is in the position to make money. If the market is poor like it is now, businesses determine who will work for them. Which in short will always be the one that accepts the lowest pay. Also not everyone is able todo every job. We are not all gifted with a genius brain, or the skills of a plumber, or a painter, etc, etc.

Also you can have a shitty job that pays very well, but you don't last for a year. Or you can get a job that pays poor, but one you are content with for years.

leader>people = slavery.
rich>poor = LoL?

I respect people for what and how they are, not how much money they make/have.

You have a very narrow minded view of people Himse.

Not really, I don't care for money it's not how I judge people.

But it's been proven Socialism doesn't work. You're right not everyone has a genius brain, but even the plumbers, painters of the world are still doing some ok business, others are not.

I didn't mean > to use greater than or like rich are better than the poor, I just used it to separate the two.

 

[Tom]

How terrible of the Greek government to ask the Greek people what they'd prefer. I'm sure the EU is horrified to think that the people they're supposed to represent might get a say in the matter.

 

[Mabs]

democracy is the worst form of government.. apart from all the other that have been tried

 

[throdgrain]

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner.

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

(My favourite quote )

 

[Scouse]

I was under the impression a lot of Greeks dont pay thier taxes, correct me if I'm wrong though.

The land tax rules were if you hadn't finished your house *wink wink* you wouldn't have to pay any taxes. So everyone had an unfinished 3rd floor.

But to be fair - the masses tax dodging? I'm now of the opinion that it's a great idea - the rich don't pay any. A handful of percent, that's it.

 

[rynnor]

But to be fair - the masses tax dodging? I'm now of the opinion that it's a great idea - the rich don't pay any. A handful of percent, that's it.

Or none like the royal family + a tax free handout - go meritocracy!

 

[Zenith]

Ok, just a very short message, I agree with Raven. Why do EVERYONE make the fundamental error of instantly start talking with socialism as the only other possible solution other than capitalism? There is probably a million other ways of doing it, we just need to start from scratch, w/o our Fathers theories...