The great times of manachanters over?

[vintervargen]

just fail to cast spell afaik, i mean pbaoe dont need a target but still gets fooked up :[

 

[cougar-]

doubt that, just stun that destroy teh moc. OR albs never used it against us. They aint known to be clever soo

 

[Jenna.]

that tjit0rspamming amnesia by hibs earlier sure broke the MoC

 

[cougar-]

caster groups just bloody sucks.

AND just found this at vnboards. such clever americans:

"If melee is going to be somewhat competitive in RvR compared to casters there needs to be some sort of PBT for spells, and/or some health buff sort of thing, and armor should make a difference to spell dmg beyond just the resists you can put on it. (not to mention there are like 10 spell dmg types and only 3 melee dmg types). Also I think spells should trigger procs on armor."

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by cougar-
caster groups just bloody sucks.

AND just found this at vnboards. such clever americans:

"If melee is going to be somewhat competitive in RvR compared to casters there needs to be some sort of PBT for spells, and/or some health buff sort of thing, and armor should make a difference to spell dmg beyond just the resists you can put on it. (not to mention there are like 10 spell dmg types and only 3 melee dmg types). Also I think spells should trigger procs on armor."

 

[Shike]

amnesia causes MoC to fail

only problem with sorcs amnesia is the powerconsumtion imo. Cant cast many of those before you go oom.

And its definetely starting to become Dark Age of Tankalot. Nukin tanks for 2xx without debuffs is a laugh when they have 2400 hp buffed. I hope that changes with the overhaul of the resistsystem that Mythic has been talkin about lately. 4xx is totally ok to nuke/be nuked for for in my book, RAs kinda feck that up tho as it is today after debuffs with the amount of critts. We'll see what happens I guess.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by vintervargen
lets say it gets moved to chanter light spec. highest debuff + spec DD + heat nuking pet = ouch

light eld. debuff + spec dd + low version of str/con debuff + NS = ouch

light menta. debuff + spec dd (and maybe if debuffs gets AE) + spec ae dd = omg ouch

or, how about moving debuffs to ench, leaving pb and fds in mana? or moving fds to light and debuff to ench? ofc give some fluff to fill out mana line then.

 

[cougar-]

Originally posted by Arnor
or, how about moving debuffs to ench, leaving pb and fds in mana? or moving fds to light and debuff to ench? ofc give some fluff to fill out mana line then.

cant have a debuff in pet line, that's just wrong and silly, sooooo debuff in same line as dd. strong manners!

but tbh. i dont think mythic EVER moved a spell to a other line?

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by vintervargen
hmm, speed6 2 insta ae cc purge and deter, really think range matters? (savages have taunt shout no?)

since when do savages get AE cc and Speed 6?

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by cougar-
but tbh. i dont think mythic EVER moved a spell to a other line?

Moved chanter speed from spec mana to base

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by cougar-
cant have a debuff in pet line, that's just wrong and silly, sooooo debuff in same line as dd. strong manners!

but tbh. i dont think mythic EVER moved a spell to a other line?

rather wrong and silly then having both ends of the damage spectre in one line tbh

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by vintervargen
lets say it gets moved to chanter light spec. highest debuff + spec DD + heat nuking pet = ouch

light eld. debuff + spec dd + low version of str/con debuff + NS = ouch

light menta. debuff + spec dd (and maybe if debuffs gets AE) + spec ae dd = omg ouch

read my posts damnit t.t

 

[cougar-]

Originally posted by Arnor
rather wrong and silly then having both ends of the damage spectre in one line tbh

maybe more silly to have it in pbae line :>

buuut i doubt they move it, such hassel to move it since ppl might need to remake sc etc.

 

[parisienscot]

Originally posted by vintervargen
because hib is the magic realm whereas mid have savages/zerks?

Nooo if one more person comes out with that drivel about melee and magic realms they are getting a slap.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by Shike
amnesia causes MoC to fail

only problem with sorcs amnesia is the powerconsumtion imo. Cant cast many of those before you go oom.

And its definetely starting to become Dark Age of Tankalot. Nukin tanks for 2xx without debuffs is a laugh when they have 2400 hp buffed. I hope that changes with the overhaul of the resistsystem that Mythic has been talkin about lately. 4xx is totally ok to nuke/be nuked for for in my book, RAs kinda feck that up tho as it is today after debuffs with the amount of critts. We'll see what happens I guess.

I'd go for that, as long as tanks got more ability from base to resist/break mezzes, which are the bane of my life in RvR.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Originally posted by parisienscot
Nooo if one more person comes out with that drivel about melee and magic realms they are getting a slap.

Actually... *ducks*...that's the way...*ducks*...it was originally planned. *ducks*

 

[parisienscot]

Originally posted by old.Tohtori
Actually... *ducks*...that's the way...*ducks*...it was originally planned. *ducks*

/slap /slap /slap


I know that's the way it was originally planned, just the way theurgs were meant to be siege specialists and shadowblades were meant to get disguise ability and hunters were to be able to shapeshift into animals.

It's just not valid any more.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by parisienscot
...hunters were to be able to shapeshift into animals.

...they were? Damn, that's be nice...and Hib as the TreeHugger Realm P) should definitely have strong ones of these...

 

[old.Lythande]

Originally posted by tildson
Is 450-500damage too much for a single nuke? You will be very suprised if Mythic changes the state of resistbuffs - the overpowered within a manachanter, is the ability to have lvl48 PBAE and a single DD who nukes like a speccy one. 450-500dmg with a single DD is what it should do, not 200-250 :/

I wasn't saying anything about the damage really, I was answering to the guy claiming "not many manachanters use the debuff". And tbh 500 dmg every 1.5-1.7 sec IS a bit much imo. But if that was what they _specifically_ specced for I could live with it, but you wrote yourself exactly my thoughts on the mana-line.

 

[Nichneven]

Originally posted by cougar-
with healer attackspeeddebuff, shaman spamming ae disease etc a hib caster group cant do shit exept moc or die. tanks > casters anyday, even if our pryd caster group manage well now, but its not cause of good classes.

I am damn lucky if i have time enough to cast my disease on any hib before I have a pet up my arse

edit: Bring on the NERF!!!!!

 

[Solarius]

Hehe I thought things were venomous about the FS issue on this forum. Then I looked at the Hero TL feedback report. People are actually resoring to personal insults there, it's kinda funny!

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=53149896&page=6

Couple of good ideas though, including making the FS realm-castable. I'd definatly go for that one, imagine a hero charging into a keep attack force with FS and druid heals - messy, until the nukes take over. Would be worth a screenie or two though!

 

[vintervargen]

make FS realm castable... sure, and focus pull dragon

 

[Solarius]

Ok, I've been givng some thought (ok, not much, more of a 'hey, this might be good) on how they could shift things around a bit to 'improve' the enchanter class, without actually killing it. Please give feedback on what you think!


Light - Heat based

PbAoEDD
Attackspeed debuff
AoE Attackspee debuff

I've always felt that AS debuff didn't quite fit with single target DD. Here it could be useful to 'slow down' melee classes for the PB

Mana - Energy based

Spec DD
AoE DD (like Eld/Ment AoE DD)
Heat/Cold/Matter Debuff at same specs as 1.62

Added the AoE here for a little variety

Enchantment - Body based

Pet Str/Con Buff
Pet Dex/Qui Buff
Pet Heal Proc Buff
Pet Acuity Buff (though I think this would be better in Mana)
Realm Cast Damage Add
Focus Damage Shield


The only thing I can see might be an issue here is that Enchantment becomes *solely* a PvE Spec, but tbh I can't see this being too much of a hurdle - it still permits enchanters to make pl bots (though they need an additional PbAoE class to be as effective as they currently are) and if the chanter wants to get the benifits of PvE from 1-50 by speccing enchantments, then get RvR with a more offensive spec at 50, (s)he could participate on a dragon raid (where 50 Enchantments would be welcomed with open arms for the damage add) to get a respec stone, and respec to his chosen path!

With this, and the Enchanter becomes sort of like a boltless Wizard with a pet - can deal high damage, but has very little in the way of utility (just a stun and debuffs).

Opinions?

 

[acei]

Originally posted by Arnor
retard-comment of the week award goes to: <drumwhirl> ACEI!!!

congratulations, what a great achievement!

Oh please, i tried out my friends BD yesterday and sent the pets alone against a orange mob, they won and were still on full HP i didn't do anything, there pets are ridiculously strong to go against a orange but combined with a lifetap on 4seconds i have no doubt they can kill a fg of albs if played properly and if they avoid CC somehow.... 4 seconds is farrrr too quick it should be at least 8 seconds. BTW i've took note that the ONLY ones that complained about my comment are the ones in Midgard, obviously they don't want another nerf on their realm but Bonedancers deserve it!

 

[Solarius]

Pets winning against an orange mob... and you think thats overpowered? OK, as an enchanter I can routinely send my pet against a red or purple mob, and be guaranteed a win. Add in Druid buffs, heals and my FDS and he can tank groups of reds. But this is PvE we're talking about. Mobs are clearly not as smart as a human player, nor as unpredictable, pet classes are good PvE that doesn't mean the same as RvR.

Try that BD in an RvR situation, then decide. Personally I haven't played a BD, so can't comment, but I wouldn't ever assume that a class is overpowered due to trying it out in ONE PvE test, thats just short-sighted.

 

[parisienscot]

Originally posted by Solarius
Ok, I've been givng some thought (ok, not much, more of a 'hey, this might be good) on how they could shift things around a bit to 'improve' the enchanter class, without actually killing it. Please give feedback on what you think!

My suggestions :

Slight - Heat based

PbAoEDD (Drive Evil)

SMana - Energy based

Spec DD (Holy Anger)
AoE DD (Heavenly Strike)

 

[acei]

Originally posted by Solarius
Pets winning against an orange mob... and you think thats overpowered? OK, as an enchanter I can routinely send my pet against a red or purple mob, and be guaranteed a win. Add in Druid buffs, heals and my FDS and he can tank groups of reds. But this is PvE we're talking about. Mobs are clearly not as smart as a human player, nor as unpredictable, pet classes are good PvE that doesn't mean the same as RvR.

Focus shield? buffs? druid heals? I said i provided NO HELP!!! to the BD pets, i didn't lifetap, i didn't do the damage absorbtion, i didn't help them in anyway, i didn't even debuff.

Oh and i've gone against BD's several times in RvR and BG's... in BG's they pretty much rule, RvR there is too much zerg and crowd control but even with the zerg a lifetap every 4 seconds that is instant and does alot of damage is overpowered for sure.

 

[Xeanor]

Change the baseline Sun DD nuke to Energy damage. This will make the resist debuffs as they should be: debuff for other spec nukers (Heat debuff for Light Mentalists, Cold debuff for Light/Void Eldritches)

Put the focus shield in the enchantments line.

Done.

 

[Tasans]

Originally posted by acei
Focus shield? buffs? druid heals? I said i provided NO HELP!!! to the BD pets, i didn't lifetap, i didn't do the damage absorbtion, i didn't help them in anyway, i didn't even debuff.

Oh and i've gone against BD's several times in RvR and BG's... in BG's they pretty much rule, RvR there is too much zerg and crowd control but even with the zerg a lifetap every 4 seconds that is instant and does alot of damage is overpowered for sure.

If you want bds nerfed because of killing mobs easy, then nerf necros near constant pulling. kthxbye untill then

 

[Solarius]

Acei, if you notice I only said druid buffs/heals/FDS for GROUPS of reds - agaisnt a solo orange I wouldn't need to do anything. Granted, the pet wouldn't be on full health, but it is only one pet, BD's have several. Bear in mind, however, though the BD has two, three or four pets, as the number of pets go up, the level of each goes down. My pet, at 50th level, will be 44th level. Blue con to a 50. A Bonedancers' pets will be max 44th level, but if he takes 2 pets, their levels become max 32nd (65/2 rnd down) and 3 pets would be 21st lvl each (65/3 rnd down). Yes, they can be troublesome, and yes in PvE they are good. But RvR who really ignores the BD or commander and attacks the troop pets? Mobs will, in PvE, due to the AI, but if a player tries that, they are gonna get owned - just as with any pet class where you try and kill the pet first.

I'm not saying I think BD's suck, nor am I saying they rock - I don't know, I've never played one - but you are basing your assessment on one encounter, thats hardly enough to know about the class!