The great times of manachanters over?

[Solarius]

Originally posted by Reinnon/Nonnier
the supp SM only has a pbaoe, while the mana line has debuffs of the baseline nuke, which means that a enchanter with no light spec can nuke for the same amount.

The mana line also has a focus sheild, which SM/cabbies (not sure about cabbies) have to spec another line, so they lose the debuff and the pbaoe if they want the focus shield, thus very few people spec in the focus shield line, while hibs can get the focus sheid and a pbaoe and debuffs.

so moving the focus sheild to enchantment is a good move, as it will bring the enchanter to the more normal set of spec lines, 1 DD line, 1 pbaoe (again, not cabbies for some reason) and a buff/focus sheild line that the SM has

This isn't a flame, but I have to point out that Supp SM has MUCH more than 'just a pbaoe', they have AS debuff, mez, cure mez, debuff str/con and life transfer. Damage-wise, yes manachanters will outperform SM as it stands, but damage is pretty much all an enchanter has, not including the casting pet ofc.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with your post.

 

[Sharma]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

<gasps>


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAA

<breaths some>

HAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


sorry has to be done, they thought they were invincible but NOPE!

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by old.Tohtori
Hibbie..gank...groups?

I've never seen more then 3 hibbies together and even then they were discussing/arguing about which looks better, green leaves or brown treetrunks.

The third liked trees just because they don't mind being hugged but..that's off the point.

Then you should come to Excal and observe Vengeance. Also, I'd be surprised if Nolby on pryd didn't construct what can be called "gank groups", personally.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by parisienscot
What is annoying though is when every single time (it seems like) you meet a fg of hibbies with another fg and even when you get the jump on them... they win. This is due mostly to the problems with manachanters.

I think the problem is that most Hib groups will be lost if manachanters become a sucky class.

Standard Hib tactic whenever we run into them is to draw into a little huddle and pbaoe away. If you took that away they wouldn't know what to do.

If you kill the chanters quickly, or MOC isn't up, Hib groups fall apart. You can almost hear them say 'Oh shit! WTF are we gonna do now?'

Will need a fine balancing act to avoid screwing Hib when they lack numbers on most servers.

 

[Sharma]

Maybe they can take a look at other realm groups ajnd perhaps if its mentally possible creat another group?

nerfing manachanters wont be the end of hib

 

[Mysteriax]

Been in loads of rvr grps without mana chanters.
But the weird thing is dont the other realms have pbae aswell , and isnt it a fact that a melee realm midgard has the strongest pbae in the whole game.
Still weird that peopkle whine that manachanters get them to huddle together , bard mezzes and they nuke.
For some reason are albs and people from midgard so extremely stupid that they cant do the same thing.
I dont really think those changes will affect rvr much. Not many manachanters use the debuff because baseline nuke even with the target has 0% resist is well not much like a mosquito bite on a descent tank on the onther hand a pbae spell is much stronger and with moc its the only thing a caster has since spellcrafting, spellcrafting that made the magic realm really underpowered with all the resists.

Focus shield to enchantments is a good idea imho.

We are albs and mids Hib has 1 not gimped class left boohoohoo lets nerf it. We dont like losing to the hibs they should just be farmed in Emain by our big zergs (ok thats alb but it sounded nice).

Anyways I dont really care just wanted to see how it was like to cry like baby's like albs and mids because they dont realise what great classes they have, and havent got a clue except NP and some other on how to use the abilities.


edit ******************
flame away :sleeping:

 

[parisienscot]

Originally posted by Mysteriax
wibble wibble wibble...

Not many manachanters use the debuff because baseline nuke even with the target has 0% resist is well not much like a mosquito bite ... wibble wibble wibble...

magic realm really underpowered with all the resists... wibble wibble...

flame away :sleeping:

Flame inc!

- They do use the debuff and baseline nuke - it does huge damage, even on tanks.

- Stop wibbling about melee realm and magic realm that's so last year.

 

[Nonnier]

Originally posted by -Nxs-
Has the class changed recently, ive noticed in Thid there are only 2 pets following a BD around now and not 3, this makes combat a little easier

if they had 3 pets in thid, then are breaking the rules some how, cause u get the 3rd pet (including commander) at 30

 

[old.Nikolas]

Totally agree about the focus pulling problem for Hibernia, tbh if your not a Druid, Bard or Enchanter you find it very hard to level fast at the moment.

If you are an Enchanter, Bard or Druid you well level a lot faster than average. It took me 7 RL days (Just under 4 days played) to level my druid from 1-50 because of focus pulling (1-35 self levelling with Nightshade). The last 3 days from level 35-50 in the Cursed Forrest went passed very quickly and left me kinda shell shocked at how 3 character classes can own xp so much.

 

[parisienscot]

Can someone fill me in on this focus pulling lark - coz every time I try it with my cabalist I get the whole group wiped and they all log in a huff (but that's alb excal for you ;-) ).

How many mobs should I pull at once? All low purps or should it be reds / oranges I pull? Been using sapphire bob coz he heals himself a bit, but clerics never seem to be able to keep up on the healing.

Sorry for going off topic - just one quick reply then you can all go back to giggling at chanter nerf

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by Mysteriax
Been in loads of rvr grps without mana chanters.
But the weird thing is dont the other realms have pbae aswell , and isnt it a fact that a melee realm midgard has the strongest pbae in the whole game.
Still weird that peopkle whine that manachanters get them to huddle together

Focus shield to enchantments is a good idea imho.

I dont think anyone is moaning about the pbaoe aspect of the chanter - its the fact that the mana chanter has the following :-

PBAOE
Debuff for their own damage type
Focus Shield

Like you said - focus shield to enchantments would be a good idea - and honestly i believe would make for an interesting change.

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by parisienscot
How many mobs should I pull at once? All low purps or should it be reds / oranges I pull? Been using sapphire bob coz he heals himself a bit, but clerics never seem to be able to keep up on the healing.

Depends how many healers you have - get within range of some nice mobs, normaly reds are fine, cast focus shield - send pet in, if its a BAF mob you should get about 3 in a full group. then switch mob to passive so it runs back to you and out of the agro zone. Healers should have the pet targeted at all times, but not heal to early - ensure the pet has agro from all mobs.

Dont blame yourself for a group wipeout - if you have focus shield on then maybe the healers are healing to early.

 

[parisienscot]

Hmm that's basically what i was doing - I'll blame the cleric then - oh and the crappo friar with 7 rejuv - sigh I don't think Albion is really the place for focus pulling!

 

[Jonaldo]

I heard in the light spec line Enchanters are getting Plate armour, 2h weapons and stealth, and to help compensate with the lack of abilities they will now have with focus shield moving Mythic are giving them 3x spec points so they can max each line

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by parisienscot
Hmm that's basically what i was doing - I'll blame the cleric then - oh and the crappo friar with 7 rejuv - sigh I don't think Albion is really the place for focus pulling!

Any good healer knows to use a range of heals for focus pulling. Its not good just using the BEST heal they have.

It takes ages to cast
It generates oddles of Agro

When I was playing a druid for focus pulls, id wait until the pet was on about 60% health then fire off 2 of the smallest heals, they only took 2 secs to cast and generaly boosted the pet back to max HP.

And yes, a friar with only 7 rejuv in a high level focus pulling group - its well... crap

 

[Shike]

tihi, focuspullin gettin nerfed... tihi.. <giggles>.. tihi..

was actually about time. Can still xp fast with a good group with PBAoE so I dont see a problem really and then maybe tanks etc can get groups a bit easier.

The changes mentioned in that thread looked good to me.

 

[parisienscot]

Oh I think I see what I was doing wrong - you see everyone was raving about how uber focus pulling was so I assumed pulling 3-5 purples at once would be no sweat. Poor cleric had to spam Greater Heals.

The scary thing is it worked the first two pulls

 

[-Nxs-]

Focus pulling is dull and boring - only the PBOAE, Focus Shield, Healer classes need to be there, all others generaly go AFK - it doesnt make for a nice leveling or PvE experience. The quicker it gets nerfed the better, and not just for Hib.


The problem in Hib is that the Focus Shield class is the same spec as the PBAOE class, which makes them VERY common. You see hardly anyone focus pulling from Alb/Mid even tho it is possible.


PBAOE groups have always been the most fun and the quickest way to level in groups, so lets hope Mythic realise this and only address the mana chanter to split the PBAOE and Focus Shield into different spec lines like the other 2 realms.

 

[Shike]

first day in hib (when i moved back) I got my drood to 7 and encountered 2 chanters, I was grouped with a VW at that time and as soon as they see me:

Shiko we need u to heal our pets! Please... I just said I dont heal pets, only players.

zzzz

Velly funny to stand and heal a stoopid pet.. NOT!

 

[Nightchill]

One thing I mentioned to a few pbaoers as a possible fix was put the damage up slightly (shh a second) but give it a cap, say 1000 (or 2000) damage to stop a pbaoer being able to kill dozens of players on doors/at lord. *shrug*

 

[old.Lythande]

Originally posted by Mysteriax
I dont really think those changes will affect rvr much. Not many manachanters use the debuff because baseline nuke even with the target has 0% resist is well not much like a mosquito bite on a descent tank on the onther hand a pbae spell is much stronger and with moc its the only thing a caster has since spellcrafting, spellcrafting that made the magic realm really underpowered with all the resists.

Rofl, what in the h*ll are you smoking son? Have you even seen how much damage a chanter does with his baseline nuke after debuff? No? Let me give you a hint, 450-500+ depending on MoM etc and resists on the target. You've been in "loads" of rvr-groups you say.. BG?


"Not many manachanters use the debuff" ...

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by Nightchill
One thing I mentioned to a few pbaoers as a possible fix was put the damage up slightly (shh a second) but give it a cap, say 1000 (or 2000) damage to stop a pbaoer being able to kill dozens of players on doors/at lord. *shrug*

The PBAOE is NOT the issue here, i dont think, if you look at the main PBAOE classes..

Alb Wizard (L48) - 325DD
Hib Eldritch (L48) - 325DD
Hib Chanter (L48) - 325DD
Mid Spiritmaster (L49) - 331.5DD

That looks pretty fair and even to me, all realms can create PBAOE classes and defend keep lords in exactly the same way. I think the main issues on this thread are.

1) Mana chanters can debuff their own damage type, no other PBAOE'er can do this
2) Mana chanters also get Focus Shields, which makes PvE very dull and impossible for non healing/pbaoe characters to level.

 

[Nightchill]

I was referring to *all* pbaoers, not just chanters

 

[Arnor]

Damnit, tough one here I thought acei was sole winner but crapola Mysteriax came up from nowhere and im sorry but I think ill have to give him the prize. That was deffo the weeks, maybe the most retarded comment i've seen so far in my daoc career.

Im sorry if its a bit harsh, but DUDE!! PUT DOWN THE PIPE!

 

[Solarius]

Originally posted by -Nxs-
The PBAOE is NOT the issue here, i dont think, if you look at the main PBAOE classes..

Alb Wizard (L48) - 325DD
Hib Eldritch (L48) - 325DD
Hib Chanter (L48) - 325DD
Mid Spiritmaster (L49) - 331.5DD

That looks pretty fair and even to me, all realms can create PBAOE classes and defend keep lords in exactly the same way. I think the main issues on this thread are.

1) Mana chanters can debuff their own damage type, no other PBAOE'er can do this
2) Mana chanters also get Focus Shields, which makes PvE very dull and impossible for non healing/pbaoe characters to level.

1) WRONG! Alb Ice wizards get a cold debuff in the same specline as their PBAoE, and in fact a manachanters debuff is their baseline nuke NOT their PBAoE.
2) How is Manachanters Focus Shield any different from Spiritmaster FS or Cabalist FS - if you're meaning the combination of PBAoE and FS then it's still available, albeit with 2 characters, with any other realm - most FS groups tend to get 2 Manachanters anyway, one to FS the other to PB, so how is this different from any other realm having one FS and one PB?

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by Solarius
1) WRONG! Alb Ice wizards get a cold debuff in the same specline as their PBAoE, and in fact a manachanters debuff is their baseline nuke NOT their PBAoE.

HellO?

have you had a look a the freakin values?

Manachanters get a 50% heat debuff

Ice wizzies get a 10% debuff, go figure..

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Solarius
1) WRONG! Alb Ice wizards get a cold debuff in the same specline as their PBAoE, and in fact a manachanters debuff is their baseline nuke NOT their PBAoE.
2) How is Manachanters Focus Shield any different from Spiritmaster FS or Cabalist FS - if you're meaning the combination of PBAoE and FS then it's still available, albeit with 2 characters, with any other realm - most FS groups tend to get 2 Manachanters anyway, one to FS the other to PB, so how is this different from any other realm having one FS and one PB?

umm, because its a worthless spec and noone specs it? hows that for "any different"?


mid is TOTALLY shafted for fds, only lately have some few popped up and thats only to farm tg etc.

 

[Flimgoblin]

give max spec theres a 25% bonus - so the ice wizard actually gets 12.5% debuff

the mana enchanter gets 62.5%

+- a few 0.1 given they only spec to 48/49?

people seem to forget to mention the pet as well that's a snare/nuke for free (or a tank, or a healer pet)

it's not a massive thing, but it's an advantage.

 

[lakih]

Originally posted by -Nxs-
Mana chanters can debuff their own damage type, no other PBAOE'er can do this

Intresting... IceWizards can debuff their basline nuke with a loveley 10% (no its not good, but it proves him wrong )

Level 50 Spritmaster... (specced 41 supp/35 darkness/3 summoning)
41 Suppression: Direct Damage [PB] [AE] Spiritbased - 273 DD
35 Darkness: Lower Spirit Resist - 30 Resist


Chanters are overpowerd cus they can debuff their baseline damage and get pbaoe.... spiritmasters get to debuff their own pbaoedamage but this is np? (no sm's dont get the last pbaoe and the best debuff with such a spec)

:sleeping:

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by Solarius
1) WRONG! Alb Ice wizards get a cold debuff in the same specline as their PBAoE, and in fact a manachanters debuff is their baseline nuke NOT their PBAoE.

Point taken although its considerably less

Originally posted by Solarius
2) How is Manachanters Focus Shield any different from Spiritmaster FS or Cabalist FS - if you're meaning the combination of PBAoE and FS then it's still available, albeit with 2 characters, with any other realm - most FS groups tend to get 2 Manachanters anyway, one to FS the other to PB, so how is this different from any other realm having one FS and one PB?

Yes it is different, due to FS and PBAOE being on the same character - that character class is more popular - and readily avaliable throughout the realm. If you were to add up how many Ice Wizards + Cabbys (with FS) i bed it would be out numbered by mana chanters... based on % of people within the realm, and the same with Mid.