O
old.Dillinja
Guest
- Thread starter
- #211
Hmm, I said it at the beginning but nobody listened...
The never-ending argument continues...
The never-ending argument continues...
A
Arnor
Guest
- Thread starter
- #212
how could the big bang just be?
J
Jonaldo
Guest
- Thread starter
- #213
Jesus regularly masturbated throughout his teenage years. But the bible ignores all those and jumps straight from him being a child to about 30 years old.
There's a whole load of missing pages that would totally ruin the Christian beliefs as he also smoked reefer, participated in mass orgies and organised public stonings of people who disagreed with anything he said.*
*None of this may be true but as it cannot be proved nor disproved any more or less than the bibles stories I don't see why the story shouldn't be told.
There's a whole load of missing pages that would totally ruin the Christian beliefs as he also smoked reefer, participated in mass orgies and organised public stonings of people who disagreed with anything he said.*
*None of this may be true but as it cannot be proved nor disproved any more or less than the bibles stories I don't see why the story shouldn't be told.
O
old.chipper
Guest
- Thread starter
- #214
coim that was a really intelligent thing you said on the last page about the snake been a metaphor and im surprised no one else came out and said it as plainly
ive just read all 9 pages it really is a interesting subject who is right who is wrong
im gonna settle on all of you
im methodist i dont know what type of religion it is christian probably tbh i dont really care, im not a fan of religion im my eyes religion has always been the single biggest killer known to man more dangerous than weapons or nature id like to believe in a afterlife but im fairly scientificly minded so logic tells me it cant be true
nearly everyone has said they do or would like to believe in a afterlife this in its self shows you have faith and fear of an almighty being youre scared of being judged i know its always there in my mind if i really think about it
however i have always gone on what i can see and hear with my eyes and ears the bible should not be taken literally you are a fool if you do, there is so much diversity in humanity, even at the time of the bible being written it was never going to apply to everyone each person has his own beliefs and values and i dont believe god will judge you i believe right at the end as your dying you will judge yourself in your last seconds of life you will ask yourself did i live a good life and you wont compare it to the bible of the korahnn or any other religious writings you will compare it to your own values you have adopted in your lifetime
religion was a good thing 2000 years ago it brought order to chaos through fear, in todays society we have evolved beyond that we dont need to live like that anymore
i respect ppl for having a belief so strong they do not need proof to believe it exists i also think its extremely stupid but thats my view and i do not impose it on others
the afterlife is a very mirky subject heaven hell etc its all fire and brimstone stuff to me
the idea of heaven and hell is a idealistic one but i dont believe in it the way many do it doesnt make sense to me how can 1 teaching tell if you where good or bad just cause i dont go to chruch does that make me a bad person ? will i go to hell ?
i also like the discworld idea of an afterlife you make it what you want it to be
some people say that you just die nah you dont your body may stop working but what happens to all the electricity in your body energy cannot be destroyed does it just dissapate ?
what happens to your soul ? thats a big question what is the soul? is it what defines us as individuals is it what makes us ALIVE. sooner or later you go beyond religion and get down to existence in a pure form that goes beyond religion and ideals its hard to put into words what im trying to say i hope you get some idea what im on about and not just talking rubbish
ive just read all 9 pages it really is a interesting subject who is right who is wrong
im gonna settle on all of you
im methodist i dont know what type of religion it is christian probably tbh i dont really care, im not a fan of religion im my eyes religion has always been the single biggest killer known to man more dangerous than weapons or nature id like to believe in a afterlife but im fairly scientificly minded so logic tells me it cant be true
nearly everyone has said they do or would like to believe in a afterlife this in its self shows you have faith and fear of an almighty being youre scared of being judged i know its always there in my mind if i really think about it
however i have always gone on what i can see and hear with my eyes and ears the bible should not be taken literally you are a fool if you do, there is so much diversity in humanity, even at the time of the bible being written it was never going to apply to everyone each person has his own beliefs and values and i dont believe god will judge you i believe right at the end as your dying you will judge yourself in your last seconds of life you will ask yourself did i live a good life and you wont compare it to the bible of the korahnn or any other religious writings you will compare it to your own values you have adopted in your lifetime
religion was a good thing 2000 years ago it brought order to chaos through fear, in todays society we have evolved beyond that we dont need to live like that anymore
i respect ppl for having a belief so strong they do not need proof to believe it exists i also think its extremely stupid but thats my view and i do not impose it on others
the afterlife is a very mirky subject heaven hell etc its all fire and brimstone stuff to me
the idea of heaven and hell is a idealistic one but i dont believe in it the way many do it doesnt make sense to me how can 1 teaching tell if you where good or bad just cause i dont go to chruch does that make me a bad person ? will i go to hell ?
i also like the discworld idea of an afterlife you make it what you want it to be
some people say that you just die nah you dont your body may stop working but what happens to all the electricity in your body energy cannot be destroyed does it just dissapate ?
what happens to your soul ? thats a big question what is the soul? is it what defines us as individuals is it what makes us ALIVE. sooner or later you go beyond religion and get down to existence in a pure form that goes beyond religion and ideals its hard to put into words what im trying to say i hope you get some idea what im on about and not just talking rubbish
C
Cush
Guest
- Thread starter
- #215
cus everyone know there aint no such thing as heaven or hell ^^
O
old.yaruar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #216
Originally posted by BlitheringIdiot
Ah but mine was all boys, beat that
I went to a convent school......
my school pwnz yours
O
old.yaruar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #217
religion v science......
Science is often said to be the modern religion, but by it's very definition it can not be.
Why does religion persist in a world dominated by science when often it is defined by it's very irrationality. There is one main reason for this and that reason is one of the flaws of science itself.
There are two core questions in this world from which most questions are derived. These are "how?" and "why?"
Humanity seems to require answers to these two questions as part of it's very makeup (although there are certain noted examples of sub groups of humanity who are at extreme ends of the scale but that is a whole different subject)
Science specifically answers the how? question because science is about cause and effect, how one thing leads to another and the processes with which this happens. Science is rationality in it's very essence.
However what science fails to do is explain why these things happen. Probability is it's explination, but in human terms this doesn't fulfill the criteria of showing "why" these things happen. Throughtout history many explinations have come up to cover this, mainly superstition and religion, or even such concepts as fate.
Extreme example...
A young child dies. Science explains that it was sick and that it died of a disease. Science says that there was a 1 in 1million chance of it happening. However the human mind seeks to find answeres as to why it happened this time to this child. Was it fate, was it punishment, was it just meant to be...
Anyway I could expouse, and somewhere I've got a 4k word essay on the subject pitting rationalism against relativism. Can try to dig it out and bore you all.
Science is often said to be the modern religion, but by it's very definition it can not be.
Why does religion persist in a world dominated by science when often it is defined by it's very irrationality. There is one main reason for this and that reason is one of the flaws of science itself.
There are two core questions in this world from which most questions are derived. These are "how?" and "why?"
Humanity seems to require answers to these two questions as part of it's very makeup (although there are certain noted examples of sub groups of humanity who are at extreme ends of the scale but that is a whole different subject)
Science specifically answers the how? question because science is about cause and effect, how one thing leads to another and the processes with which this happens. Science is rationality in it's very essence.
However what science fails to do is explain why these things happen. Probability is it's explination, but in human terms this doesn't fulfill the criteria of showing "why" these things happen. Throughtout history many explinations have come up to cover this, mainly superstition and religion, or even such concepts as fate.
Extreme example...
A young child dies. Science explains that it was sick and that it died of a disease. Science says that there was a 1 in 1million chance of it happening. However the human mind seeks to find answeres as to why it happened this time to this child. Was it fate, was it punishment, was it just meant to be...
Anyway I could expouse, and somewhere I've got a 4k word essay on the subject pitting rationalism against relativism. Can try to dig it out and bore you all.
O
old.TeaSpoon
Guest
- Thread starter
- #218
Science v Religion
Science has to prove its self and fully justifty its answers against Religion.
Religion on the other hand, has the advantage that it can put its hand on the bible (a book where there is no way of knowing if any of it is true, or if it has been altered) say, "we belive" and BOING! Religion wins.
Life is fair
Science has to prove its self and fully justifty its answers against Religion.
Religion on the other hand, has the advantage that it can put its hand on the bible (a book where there is no way of knowing if any of it is true, or if it has been altered) say, "we belive" and BOING! Religion wins.
Life is fair
O
old.yaruar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #219
Originally posted by old.TeaSpoon
Science v Religion
Science has to prove its self and fully justifty its answers against Religion.
Religion on the other hand, has the advantage that it can put its hand on the bible (a book where there is no way of knowing if any of it is true, or if it has been altered) say, "we belive" and BOING! Religion wins.
Life is fair
As I said, this is because science and religion exist for different reasons and to answer different questions posed by the human psyche.
C
ChillyDawg
Guest
- Thread starter
- #220
Just had a wee thought after reading all the way here: what happens, in 50 years or whatever, when humand manage to make a computer so smart and stuff that itl be essentially alive?
Would christians (and most religions, i imagine) just ignore it and refuse to belive its there and that cos its made by man it cant be alive - have no soul.
Also, i think that this is just a specific example of intolerance of proven belief most rational humans believe in - stuff like big bang earth forming 6Gyears ago etc..
Being a physics student at uni (dont do it kids - its not worth it ) im more sure than most that all these complex models of the universe are, if not correct, then at least damned good approximations and that contradics on the LOWEST level that God exists to me, is He did and the bible is accurate (it clearly is not - 7 days is wrong) Hes very good at planting evidence.
Would christians (and most religions, i imagine) just ignore it and refuse to belive its there and that cos its made by man it cant be alive - have no soul.
Also, i think that this is just a specific example of intolerance of proven belief most rational humans believe in - stuff like big bang earth forming 6Gyears ago etc..
Being a physics student at uni (dont do it kids - its not worth it
) im more sure than most that all these complex models of the universe are, if not correct, then at least damned good approximations and that contradics on the LOWEST level that God exists to me, is He did and the bible is accurate (it clearly is not - 7 days is wrong) Hes very good at planting evidence.
C
ChillyDawg
Guest
- Thread starter
- #221
Did you know that it is 100% possible for the chair your sitting on right now to turn into a chicken?
It is, its just so insanely unlikely it will NEVER happen (for those who know stuff the P of it happening is of the -10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and then some order of magnitude - roughly)
Its also possible for time to just decide it wants to go in the other direction for 5 minutes and then carry on again, our existance (as a collection of basic energetic particles) is just the most probable outcome, the most probable thing for your chair to do is NOT tu turn into a chicken, unfortunately, although that would be pretty leet.
Anyway, i thought id just drop in some science for you get a perspective
Remember kids, your all children of the stars!
It is, its just so insanely unlikely it will NEVER happen (for those who know stuff the P of it happening is of the -10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and then some order of magnitude - roughly)
Its also possible for time to just decide it wants to go in the other direction for 5 minutes and then carry on again, our existance (as a collection of basic energetic particles) is just the most probable outcome, the most probable thing for your chair to do is NOT tu turn into a chicken, unfortunately, although that would be pretty leet.
Anyway, i thought id just drop in some science for you get a perspective
Remember kids, your all children of the stars!
B
Belsameth
Guest
- Thread starter
- #222
I think I used this before, but it's strangely fitting here too.
Lead your life like there is no God, then when you meet your maker hope it's a benevolent(sp?) God and judges you on how you lead your life, not if you believed in him or.
(if he isn't benevolent you're screwed anyway )
Lead your life like there is no God, then when you meet your maker hope it's a benevolent(sp?) God and judges you on how you lead your life, not if you believed in him or.
(if he isn't benevolent you're screwed anyway
)
O
old.yaruar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #223
Originally posted by Belsameth
I think I used this before, but it's strangely fitting here too.
Lead your life like there is no God, then when you meet your maker hope it's a benevolent(sp?) God and judges you on how you lead your life, not if you believed in him or.
(if he isn't benevolent you're screwed anyway
My personal theory is as follows...
If heaven is populated by the kind of people who say they are going to heaven then I for one don't want to go there. All the fun people go to hell anyway
C
Cush
Guest
- Thread starter
- #224
Originally posted by Belsameth
I think I used this before, but it's strangely fitting here too.
Lead your life like there is no God, then when you meet your maker hope it's a benevolent(sp?) God and judges you on how you lead your life, not if you believed in him or.
(if he isn't benevolent you're screwed anyway
Then the question is.
Is it good or bad getting screwed?
C
ChillyDawg
Guest
- Thread starter
- #225
bad if yer not married
/edit - oh unless its your own father then its perfectly alright of course.
C
Coim-
Guest
- Thread starter
- #226
Me > everyone else.
B
Belsameth
Guest
- Thread starter
- #227
seeing the context in which I put it it's quite bad...
in a different context it's quite another story
C
Cush
Guest
- Thread starter
- #228
Originally posted by Belsameth
seeing the context in which I put it it's quite bad...
in a different context it's quite another story
I lak the ability to grasp the context. So in my point of view it has to be good.
S
sirexairman
Guest
- Thread starter
- #229
Its down to faith no matter what you believe in . its always down to faith.. some people have it some people dont..
I have a Very different View on God and religon but I still believe in god and religon. Is that a bad thing ,misguided , good , evil or just wrong ?
The Fact is No one can tell me Im wrong and no one can tell me Im right .. Why because there is no proof .. its all about faith.
We Shall all learn what happens next after life ................ I hope
I have a Very different View on God and religon but I still believe in god and religon. Is that a bad thing ,misguided , good , evil or just wrong ?
The Fact is No one can tell me Im wrong and no one can tell me Im right .. Why because there is no proof .. its all about faith.
We Shall all learn what happens next after life ................ I hope
K
Kagato.
Guest
- Thread starter
- #230
Soooo, your still argueing in here huh?
C
Cush
Guest
- Thread starter
- #231
There aint no god so realy nothing to argue about now is there?
R
--Random--
Guest
- Thread starter
- #232
but it doesnt.. it does explain how and why things happen, which is exactly why religion is of no use anymore. if a child dies of a disease, scientists will tell you how the disease killed him, he'll also tell you that it happened because the child had an abnormal love for nuclear waste.. meaning he bathed in it every day, hense giving him the disease.
if your silly enough to think someone gets cancer because they're being punished for something, then your sadly mistaken, how come so few mass murderers or rapists get cancer? maybe silly religious people would think they're 'god' is punishing them, but a normal, rational person would know exactly how and why they're child died.
its like say.. WHY were the dinosaurs wiped out? answer: because a meteor the size of texas hit our planet.. there im answering both how and why in one answer.
i dont think the whole how and why thing does nessasarily apply to all humans, some have the intellect to understand why and how things happen, others will look to god.
B
Belsameth
Guest
- Thread starter
- #233
the funny thing is, both how the earth specifically formed and how dinosaurs are extinct are both not fully proven yet. there's various (wildly different) theories about it.
that said tho, not everything can be proven by science. just as not everything can be explained with use of the bible or any other religious text.
in the end it DOES come down to faith, either in a God or in science (which has been so deityfiedby man that it's almost a god in itself)
that said tho, not everything can be proven by science. just as not everything can be explained with use of the bible or any other religious text.
in the end it DOES come down to faith, either in a God or in science (which has been so deityfiedby man that it's almost a god in itself)
R
--Random--
Guest
- Thread starter
- #234
but belsameth.. there isnt anything science cant explain lol.. theres nothing that religion can explain better than science can.
D
Driwen
Guest
- Thread starter
- #235
science will never prove how dinosaurs are extinct as there is to little data left about that time. And if you go by the most excepted theory of the meteor hitting us than you can still say that a god had send that meteor.
religion explains why the meteor hit the earth to wipe out the dinosaurs and give humans a chance. Science doesnt explain that, it doesnt even explain why the dinosaurs died in the first case. It gives us multiple probable causes, but no reason behind them.
C
Cush
Guest
- Thread starter
- #236
A little story i once heard. Which i found quite amusing.
A man that had heard about lobsters, tho never seen one.
So one day he desided he would have lobster for dinner.
He went home and set the table.
Went and opend there door, left it wide open and went back to sit down for his dinner.
After he had waited the whole night yet no lobster had come to his home to be his dinner.
So the man drew the conclusion that lobsters dosnt exist.
Bit back stabbing for my self since i dont belive in god and dont realy care to look for evidence for or against what i belive. Non the less a quite amusing story (I think that atleast)
A man that had heard about lobsters, tho never seen one.
So one day he desided he would have lobster for dinner.
He went home and set the table.
Went and opend there door, left it wide open and went back to sit down for his dinner.
After he had waited the whole night yet no lobster had come to his home to be his dinner.
So the man drew the conclusion that lobsters dosnt exist.
Bit back stabbing for my self since i dont belive in god and dont realy care to look for evidence for or against what i belive. Non the less a quite amusing story (I think that atleast)
O
old.yaruar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #237
All those exaples still just explain the cause and effect, ie the how, rather than the more intangible why.
C
Conchabar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #238
Where in the bible does it say god wiped out the dinasours my mind seems fuzzy on that :x
R
--Random--
Guest
- Thread starter
- #239
because there is no reason, its one of those things. why does there have to be a reason for a meteor hitting the earth? it wasnt to give humans a chance, humans would probably still have evolved into us even if nothing happened to the dinosaurs. i think thats the difference between religious people and normal people, religious people look for a reason behind everything, and cant simply except that things happen. there wasnt any reason for the meteor wiping out the dinosaurs, it just happened. plenty of meteors hit other planets, and our planet, and the moon all the time.. yet we never look for reasons behind them.
D
Driwen
Guest
- Thread starter
- #240
I was more talking about how religion can be used to explain things when science cant. Im not saying the bible story is correct, but the bible actually explains why things happen.
Random, but then science cant explain things like religion can, can it now? Thats my whole point, science just says something happens, because it just does. Religion gives it a reason, which people need to have.
If a close relative gets killed in some way, its comfortable to know why it happened than that she was just one of the unlucky ones who get killed.