The God thang.

[Ziva]

Like Bels said... this thread is very close to closing. If you want to keep discussing this stick to the discussion itself without insults or intolerance towards not-linkeminded people.

So keep it civil please.

 

[Brynn]

Originally posted by BlitheringIdiot
Ok well I know the last thread got locked but I didnt get my say and I'm actually seething now, so I really feel I need to post.

Being the posh bastard I am, I was educated in a Private Catholic School (yet not being catholic myself). As such I know a hell of a lot about relgious views. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I would not go to church, read the bible or pray. Yet I still believe I'm a practising Christian, and there are plenty of churches (mostly in the protestant sector) that would agree with me.

So as brynn (who I now find to be the most narrow minded person I have ever 'met') said only chirstians go to heaven, then I'm in the clear!

...Oh wait hang on, some Christian denominations believe that women are a lesser lifeform to men, as are blacks to whites. We did case studies in my school, of churches at the time in America who actually told the church-goers to go out and harras selected females in the community (such as politicians, doctors etc). It got so severe that one commited suicide. They all went to church minimum once a week, prayed twice a day and know the bible inside out.

What Im trying to say, in this rambling, to brynn is, how can you believe in something with such a huge black and white view, when there is probably no other topic on the face of the planet that has more shades of grey?

Good morning everyone - Just back from Chruch (oo is that a sore point with people)

Blith, why am i narrow minded? I have just been saying my beliefs. And i have said many a time if i have offended anyone then im sorry.
As a reply to your original question - the Church i am at doesn't let women prech (tell sermons). I disagree with the thingy in america about them harassing the women in the surrounding area. Imo those people who harras the women wont be going to hell, as to get into heaven you have to live your life as an honour to God. And harassing anyone isn't doing that justice.
Nowhere in the bible does it say Jesus condemed (sp?) he came with love and kindness. Which is how i think Christians should be, not the harassing or anything. They should be accepting.

Blith - deep down do you consider yourself a Christian? and be honest

 

[VodkaFairy]

Re: Re: The God thang.

Originally posted by Brynn
Which is how i think Christians should be, not the harassing or anything. They should be accepting.

So, people with different beliefs than you, should be going to hell according to the bible. But not according to you? You clearly say you want to be accepting, but obviously the Christian belief is not.

But you say you are a Christian? <confused>

 

[Brynn]

Yes i am a christian. I am accepting that people can follow other beliefs. However i know that they will go to hell according to the bible.

 

[--Random--]

and what do you have to say about the whole teenage girls raping they're dad thing in the bible brynn?

 

[Brynn]

Originally posted by --Random--
and what do you have to say about the whole teenage girls raping they're dad thing in the bible brynn?

Like i said to tris- i will find out for him. What do i think? I think its bad - not all the stuff in the bible is sweetness and light, Read revelations, its all about dragons and stuff

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Brynn
Yes i am a christian. I am accepting that people can follow other beliefs. However i know that they will go to hell according to the bible.

I give up, it's impossible to argue with a christian. It really is.

You're too ignorant to see what the bible really is. It's based on fear and threatening. God is like a dictator. He accepts no other ruler, he accepts nobody else but those who follow his exact ideas. He's telling you, Brynn, that by definition you are a sinner. Just because you were born. Is that really what you want to believe?

Like it has been said before, if you're so sure God exists, why is there no proof? I would be really scared if he would exist, because he is intolerant. He is old. Civilisation evolved to a democratic state, everyone can do what he/she pleases. As long as you don't harm others. The christian belief however is still stuck in the same old 'do this, or burn, do that, or burn' routine.

<shrug>

I would rather live a life based on our current standards: freedom, democracy and positive thinking; than a life based on fear, on things that aren't real, things we can't touch, it's merely a thought.

I really don't give a shit whatever you believe, if you want to believe something that has never been proven right, fine. But when you have the guts to tell me that my "after life" will be horrible, just because I rather not be affraid all my life, I really can't shut up anymore.

I don't believe people who have lived a good life, will end up in hell, just because they don't want to believe, they will end up in hell, because they don't believe in hell. And so on, and so on.

Be glad the _democracy_ made something called 'freedom of belief', something the belief itself would _never_ do. Telling so many billions of people they will burn in hell is just so fucking not acceptable. People with positive thinking will go to hell, because they don't want to believe in such an evil place.

..

:E

 

[Brynn]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
I give up, it's impossible to argue with a christian. It really is.

heh.

You are happy to life your way and i am happy to live mine my way

/off out again. and i will chekc up on that thing for ya tris-

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Brynn
heh.

You are happy to life your way and i am happy to live mine my way

/off out again. and i will chekc up on that thing for ya tris-

Just don't mention the hell thing anywhere near me. Or else I will show you how much of a sinner I really am.

 

[Jonaldo]

We all go to the same place in the end so there's no worries there

Muslims don't worship the Christian god so are going to hell
Christians don't worship the Muslim god so are also going to hell
Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Budhists, Jehovas Witnesses, and all other religions; the same, as they don't worship each others deities they will all unfortunately be condemned to eternal inprisonment in each others version of Hell.

Non-believers will probably go to all of them, or maybe none. Personally I'm just going to try and have a good time while I'm alive cos I know we're all screwed in the long run

 

[Arnor]

well vf, your primarily talking bout the oldie-christians, or jews or whatever. The new testament is all about forgiving and stuff, ofc and denying you from doing fun things



also, I would like to congratulate everyone on having successfully avoided the big hammer of CLOSED for so long here

 

[BlitheringIdiot]

Re: Re: The God thang.

Originally posted by Brynn
Blith - deep down do you consider yourself a Christian? and be honest

Yes, and dont patronise me.

By the way Jesus never ever mentioned sex ever, or homosexuality. So how did you decide that sex before marriage was wrong?

Also what do you make of the complete contrast in the teachings of the Old Testiment and the teachings of Jesus? Did they just get it all wrong? If they did, why are you so sure its right now and why do you still refer to things in the Old Testiment when most Christians nowadays only bother with the New Testiment. Or do you stone people to death for swearing?

You still havent answered my question, what denomination of christianity do you belong to? Do you actually know?

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Arnor
well vf, your primarily talking bout the oldie-christians, or jews or whatever. The new testament is all about forgiving and stuff, ofc and denying you from doing fun things



also, I would like to congratulate everyone on having successfully avoided the big hammer of CLOSED for so long here

The new testament, do I have to say more? Just change stuff 'cuz so much is already proven wrong. <shrug>

-

Yeh, this time we were saved from the dutch girls /victory

 

[BlitheringIdiot]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
The new testament, do I have to say more? Just change stuff 'cuz so much is already proven wrong. <shrug>

Basically they were very savage and then Jesus came along and said hey guys, he dont need to kill each other, lets have forgiveness and stuff. So the new testiment came along. I was taught that the OT was only really useful for the historical aspects of it, the NT is the one which 95% of Christian denominations base their teachings on.

 

[Conchabar]

ahem if u dont belive in a god then y would u belive in a after life . for all we know there is no such thing . only the early tribes and primatives belived in such things . tbh it was how they explained life :x

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by BlitheringIdiot
Basically they were very savage and then Jesus came along and said hey guys, he dont need to kill each other, lets have forgiveness and stuff. So the new testiment came along. I was taught that the OT was only really useful for the historical aspects of it, the NT is the one which 95% of Christian denominations base their teachings on.

There are too many reasons why I think the Christian belief is based on complete nonsense, I really don't want to read the OT and NT just to confirm what I've always thought...

Why do people believe in God anyway? Why? Why do you let your lives influenced by a myth? Why not by things you can touch? I just don't understand. Is it because you want to know what happens when you die, and this is an easy way of "understanding" it? Is it because you can blame someone for all the evil (the devil or whatever) and thank god for all the good in the world? Help me out

 

[--Random--]

i'd like to think theres an after life. after life and the existence of god are two totally seperate things. im not saying there is an afterlife, there probably isnt.. its just a comforting thought that maybe there is. by me saying there COULD be an after life, im not being a massive hypocrit, im just saying.. no one knows for sure what happens when we die, as obviously no one has ever come back from being dead. so who knows.. we could go to an after life.

however im still saying the existence of god and all religion is rediculous, simply because it tries to explain away things such as the earths creation etc with increadibly simplistic and rediculous theories, like god creating earth in 7 days.

i think its in human nature to hope there might be an afterlife for us.. we cant imagine life just ending, its not possible for our brains to grasp.. we cant just cease to exist. although we probably will

 

[BlitheringIdiot]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Why do people believe in God anyway? Why? Why do you let your lives influenced by a myth? Why not by things you can touch? I just don't understand. Is it because you want to know what happens when you die, and this is an easy way of "understanding" it? Is it because you can blame someone for all the evil (the devil or whatever) and thank god for all the good in the world? Help me out

Pretty much every civilisation has always believed in some form of god(s). So perhaps its just something that we need to believe in to try to understand things, even if it isnt true. The only differenc enow, is that alot of the confusion can be answered by science and so a lot less people believe in the concept of a God.

As I said I presonally hope there is a God, and if there is and I do have to stand in front of a big gate and justify my life I will be able to without automatically being sent to hell for not going to church.

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by --Random--
i'd like to think theres an after life. after life and the existence of god are two totally seperate things. im not saying there is an afterlife, there probably isnt.. its just a comforting thought that maybe there is. by me saying there COULD be an after life, im not being a massive hypocrit, im just saying.. no one knows for sure what happens when we die, as obviously no one has ever come back from being dead. so who knows.. we could go to an after life.

however im still saying the existence of god and all religion is rediculous, simply because it tries to explain away things such as the earths creation etc with increadibly simplistic and rediculous theories, like god creating earth in 7 days.

i think its in human nature to hope there might be an afterlife for us.. we cant imagine life just ending, its not possible for a brains to grasp.. we cant just cease to exist. although we probably will

/agree

Believing in an afterlife isn't too weird, but forcing people to believe what you do or else you will be punished = wrong. No matter how Christians twist and turn it, it's not right period ;x

 

[Jonaldo]

If anyone says you will be going to Hell if you don't believe in what they tell you to then that is a form of persecution. And those people doing the persecuting will be going to Hell themselves for that.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
There are too many reasons why I think the Christian belief is based on complete nonsense, I really don't want to read the OT and NT just to confirm what I've always thought...

soo, you have thought up too many reasons why its wrong so you cba to check it out?

riiight




anywhoo, there arent very many christians that try to shove their religion down your throats, atleast not here. (has NEVER happened to me)

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by BlitheringIdiot
Pretty much every civilisation has always believed in some form of god(s). So perhaps its just something that we need to believe in to try to understand things, even if it isnt true. The only differenc enow, is that alot of the confusion can be answered by science and so a lot less people believe in the concept of a God.

As I said I presonally hope there is a God, and if there is and I do have to stand in front of a big gate and justify my life I will be able to without automatically being sent to hell for not going to church.

I don't really care if there is a God or not (Fine, I'll use a capital G! ). As long as someone lives a happy life, without bothering others (intentionally), who is God or anyone else for that matter to tell him he was wrong?

If God's a guy with a friendly smile on his face, a white glowing dress telling me: you were a happy individual and you participated well in the current society; then sure I hope he exists.

Buddhism (sp?), that's a nice religion imo. Havn't seen much of it, but sitting in a temple talking to a monk is really extraordinairy. Hard to explain, but a religion based on love and harmony > a religion based on fear and threatening imo ;p

 

[Conchabar]

ive said and i will say again. Religion was a way of comforting the primitive mind imho.
the world was created in 7 days bla bla bla it was a way of the primative explaining how the earth was made. man and woman made bla bla bla it was a way of how the primative explained his creation.
if anyone takes literally they r more of a fool then one would contemplate.
after life now loads of diffrent religions belived in diffrent things and had diffrent ways of burrying the body though they all belived in it. imho the whole afterlife thing was for them to make them selfs feel okay with dieing making it meaningful.
anyone that takes the bible word for word really is ignorant.

 

[Alkoran]

Originally posted by Jonaldo
If anyone says you will be going to Hell if you don't believe in what they tell you to then that is a form of persecution. And those people doing the persecuting will be going to Hell themselves for that.

Does this not imply your own predestination?

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Arnor
soo, you have thought up too many reasons why its wrong so you cba to check it out?

riiight




anywhoo, there arent very many christians that try to shove their religion down your throats, atleast not here. (has NEVER happened to me)

I just cba posting them all here, and cba finding even more reasons by reading the OT and NT so I can back my arguments up with quotes

 

[Alkoran]

We live by our own perception and only our own perception. The perceptions of others reach though our own, they may be tinted, warped, destroyed or created. There may be "Evidence" but this too greats us through our perception.

The senses are easily fooled. How many times have others shown you things that you senses tell you is occuring, but you "know" they cannot?

How can you claim "knowledge" or "truth" if your perception cannot be trusted?

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by Alkoran
Does this not imply your own predestination?

No I don't mind what people believe in, don't judge anyone and would never say anyone is going to burn in the afterlife just because they believe something different to me.

 

[Alkoran]

But you said

Originally posted by Jonaldo
If anyone says you will be going to Hell if you don't believe in what they tell you to then that is a form of persecution. And those people doing the persecuting will be going to Hell themselves for that.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
I just cba posting them all here, and cba finding even more reasons by reading the OT and NT so I can back my arguments up with quotes

you cant be sure the OT and NT will back you up though. Anyway it would be rather pointless for you to read the OT and NT as you simply dont want to believe that there is a god(that isnt bad, just imo a fact). You know the general idea of OT and NT, so reading them wont change your opinion. BUT you cant be sure wether it would enforce your points or not.

and Conchabar, religion is and has always been around in some form or another. Its there for people to explain whats happening around them and to make sure that atleast someone understands it and that they dont have to worry about it. Its also used to make guidelines for the civilization its used in, so people have laws and reasons not to break them (besides punishment of other people).
Religion of there being multiple gods and a god for everything has slowly disappeared, because we(human beings) understood that it wasnt gods or creatures making such things work, but laws of nature. People dont like the idea of not having a reason why something is the way it is. Religion will always fill that place, wether it will be with or without a god.
Science can be seen as a religion in a way, people believe (have faith) that science will have the answers for everything and that there is nothing controling us. People will always have faith that their way of how the world works is correct.

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by Alkoran
But you said

Yes, I say those who persecute others would be going to Hell if anyone, not those who simply have different beliefs.