Politics The General Election 2015

[Bodhi]

Nevertheless, that's still an extra billion for a hundred years better spent.

@Bodhi If we're a part of the UN security, why not use their nukes as deterrent if they're happy to have them?

I know this could easily be portrayed as being cuck-oo land, but it really does suck dick that we spend so much money on ending lives when there's some serious issues going on still

Erm, because if we get rid of Trident then we won't be on the Security Council any more

 

[Raven]

I'm not really sure there is criminal waste in the NHS any more...

Then you haven't visited a hospital recently then. Its in plain sight.

 

[Gwadien]

Erm, because if we get rid of Trident then we won't be on the Security Council any more

Im crying.

In order to have a respected and heard point of view, you have to have weapons that kills thousands.

Excellent.

 

[Bodhi]

I'm not really sure there is criminal waste in the NHS any more...

Having a sister who is a GP, I'm pretty sure there is. She saw Stafford Hospital coming a mile away, and is convinced it will happen again unless management sort their shit out.

Or we could just throw more money at it. Might work, but we'll need to find more money to pay for it. You may have to pay some tax for a change

 

[Bodhi]

Im crying.

In order to have a respected and heard point of view, you have to have weapons that kills thousands.

Excellent.

Arguably they also save thousands by having them in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, the world would be a better place if we had no nukes, but sadly we do, and some questionable people have them as well. If we can prevent them from using them on us, I'm all for it.

 

[Scouse]

Having a sister who is a GP, I'm pretty sure there is.

Persuasive argument indeed. Much like the "my gran smoked 50 a day and lived to be 90" type argument that totally changed my view on the "dangers" of smoking*.

In all organisations there's waste. Especially large ones. But other than constant political tinkering fucking things up I think the NHS is largely well run nowadays. It's been paired to the bone already, the nursing staff get paid shit, they're struggling for funding for drugs, beds, equipment, yadda yadda yadda and a large injection of resources would go a long way to bringing better patient outcomes.

I'd rather spend money on actually saving and improving people's lives than spunk it on weapons for a highly unlikely "what if" scenario that we'd be stupid to respond to even if it happened...



*(And much like @Raven's "funny" - because it's "obvious" that there's criminal waste eh? The Sun said so...)

 

[old.user4556]

Sadly the SNP want the cake both possessed and consumed, they want to get rid of Trident and not have a nuclear deterrent, just stay part of NATO and use theirs instead.

Like the other 25 non-nuclear member countries, yes.

 

[Raven]

*(And much like @Raven's "funny" - because it's "obvious" that there's criminal waste eh? The Sun said so...)

That poor attempt at an insult might work if I read newspapers.

I have been in over night recently and the amount of people doing absolutely nothing was amazing.

 

[Gwadien]

Like the other 25 non-nuclear member countries, yes.

Bodhi might be on about the permanent members? (the ones who actually count and aren't there for the lols.)

 

[Tom]

Lol you're silly.

We spend 113billion on the NHS, we spend 100billion on trident, we could literally double the NHS alternatively we could stop unemployment in its tracks, 100billion, fuck me.

In 2015/16 we'll spend £115.4bn on the NHS. That's for one year. The £100bn estimated cost of Trident is spread over 40 years.

It's reasoning like yours that makes me very glad we live in a representative and not a direct democracy.

 

[Gwadien]

In 2015/16 we'll spend £115.4bn on the NHS. That's for one year. The £100bn estimated cost of Trident is spread over 40 years.

It's reasoning like yours that makes me very glad we live in a representative and not a direct democracy.

Did you scroll down and read what I wrote that?

Or did you just see that and be like YAY I CAN HAVE A DIG AT SOMEONE.

 

[Job]

I'm not making this up, went to local hospital for a check up, there was medical equipment in the hallways that looked like it was built before the war..braided cords and bakelite, the AE was rammed with people sitting on knackered plastic seats with ciggie burns in them.
So I came across a load of trustee big wigs being shown the wall with all their puctures on it...not the surgeons or the dedicated staff...the fukin big earners...musta cost a bomb, all smoked glass, wood and chrome , meanwhile the paint is peeling off the walls in the wards....the NHS is riddled with piss takers.

 

[dysfunction]

Persuasive argument indeed. Much like the "my gran smoked 50 a day and lived to be 90" type argument that totally changed my view on the "dangers" of smoking*.

In all organisations there's waste. Especially large ones. But other than constant political tinkering fucking things up I think the NHS is largely well run nowadays. It's been paired to the bone already, the nursing staff get paid shit, they're struggling for funding for drugs, beds, equipment, yadda yadda yadda and a large injection of resources would go a long way to bringing better patient outcomes.

I'd rather spend money on actually saving and improving people's lives than spunk it on weapons for a highly unlikely "what if" scenario that we'd be stupid to respond to even if it happened...



*(And much like @Raven's "funny" - because it's "obvious" that there's criminal waste eh? The Sun said so...)

Yes in all organisations there is waste but if it's a public service then you need to be extra vigilant that you don't waste too much!

The NHS may well be on a tight budget but that doesn't mean there isn't a monumental waste of resources.
There have been severe cuts in spending on the NHS but it's been in all the wrong places.

If you really looked closely you would see many contract staff being paid a fortune while at the same time perm staff being paid practically nothing and worked to the bone.

Yes you could throw more money at the NHS but it also needs a major overhaul to prevent waste on a massive scale.

 

[Moriath]

Did you scroll down and read what I wrote that?

Or did you just see that and be like YAY I CAN HAVE A DIG AT SOMEONE.

He has me on ignore so replicates stuff i say.

 

[Moriath]

Persuasive argument indeed. Much like the "my gran smoked 50 a day and lived to be 90" type argument that totally changed my view on the "dangers" of smoking*.

In all organisations there's waste. Especially large ones. But other than constant political tinkering fucking things up I think the NHS is largely well run nowadays. It's been paired to the bone already, the nursing staff get paid shit, they're struggling for funding for drugs, beds, equipment, yadda yadda yadda and a large injection of resources would go a long way to bringing better patient outcomes.

I'd rather spend money on actually saving and improving people's lives than spunk it on weapons for a highly unlikely "what if" scenario that we'd be stupid to respond to even if it happened...



*(And much like @Raven's "funny" - because it's "obvious" that there's criminal waste eh? The Sun said so...)

And so we have the proof that scouse needs 'i studdied, i read etc.' and proof that bodi gives is eye witness and still not good enough.

You cant prove a negative. So you can always argue it @Scouse ad infinitum.

 

[Scouse]

and proof that bodi gives is eye witness and still not good enough.

I've spent my fair share of time in hospital over the past five or six years, private and NHS, and have my own eye witness information - and doctors in my family too.

They say a different story. But why should I trust them or their eyes over Bodhi's or vice versa?

Eye witness evidence is balls in isolation. Take Raven's comment about people "standing around doing nothing" - staffing levels are set for a reason by people who know a darn sight more than Joe Fucking Public. I've been in a ward when I saw loads of nurses standing around "doing nothing" - but when the man in the bed opposite turned over in his sleep and started literally fountaining blood all of the nurses were fucking busy all at the same time.

Maybe they were a criminal waste of money. I don't know - I'm not qualified to say that. But the guy was still alive in the morning and everything looked like not a thing had happened - the others on the ward were totally unaware and visitors wouldn't have a clue.

I'd guess they'd be bitching about why there's loads of people standing around doing nothing and about how much tax they pay...

 

[miri]

No interest in the discussion but for what it's worth I urge everyone who plans not to vote to attend their local polling station and spoil their ballot. It's important that your voice be heard, especially in a lot of ways if it's to say that none of the major political parties represent your views.

 

[Moriath]

I've spent my fair share of time in hospital over the past five or six years, private and NHS, and have my own eye witness information - and doctors in my family too.

They say a different story. But why should I trust them or their eyes over Bodhi's or vice versa?

Eye witness evidence is balls in isolation. Take Raven's comment about people "standing around doing nothing" - staffing levels are set for a reason by people who know a darn sight more than Joe Fucking Public. I've been in a ward when I saw loads of nurses standing around "doing nothing" - but when the man in the bed opposite turned over in his sleep and started literally fountaining blood all of the nurses were fucking busy all at the same time.

Maybe they were a criminal waste of money. I don't know - I'm not qualified to say that. But the guy was still alive in the morning and everything looked like not a thing had happened - the others on the ward were totally unaware and visitors wouldn't have a clue.

I'd guess they'd be bitching about why there's loads of people standing around doing nothing and about how much tax they pay...

Everyone has different opinions from their experiences. But non are less valid than the others.

What needs to happen is to find out when it was good and increase those and bad decrease those. Not to dismiss everyones experiences out of hand.

 

[Moriath]

No interest in the discussion but for what it's worth I urge everyone who plans not to vote to attend their local polling station and spoil their ballot. It's important that your voice be heard, especially in a lot of ways if it's to say that none of the major political parties represent your views.

You think a spoilt ballot means anything more than a number and being put in that round recepticle on the floor?

 

[Raven]

You think a spoilt ballot means anything more than a number and being put in that round recepticle on the floor?

It means that you are willing to vote but cannot chose out of the current lot. Spoiled ballots are counted.

Not voting means you don't care, the parties like that, less numbers to convince. It also means they would want to find out what all these people that are willing to engage in the political system actually want.

 

[Bodhi]

The guy who sits next to me at work was telling me about the IT Kit his wife gets thrown at her. She's a "Director" for the NHS somewhere, and they have decided that the shiny new iPad Airs everyone had weren't doing the job, so they've all had Surface Pros, even though the iPads were less that 12 months old. No one seems to be collecting the old IT equipment from her, so she has a collection of old laptops/tablets etc.

I suspect all this IT money would be better spent on nurses and doctors, but no, all the managers get shiny instead. And that's where most of the waste in the NHS is, up top. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

 

[Scouse]

Tiny fractions of spend there bodhs. Like I said - all organisations have some waste.

At least the NHS is fairly transparent. For example....

 

[Job]

The NHS suffers from the classic nationalised disease, much like BT was before privitisation..the customers were the last on the priority list behind every conceivable regulation, process and entrenched culture.
One guy doing the job with an army of pen pushers behind him.
I'm sure the NHS is still the same because the people given the job to pare it down are the same frickin pen pushers and are pretty good at protecting their own intetests.
They had a management purge in the 90s...by the management...and ended up with more.
I've been to meetings like that myself where they actually put in place entire teams to look at savings while the guy who does it and earns a 100th of this new team could tell you how in 30 seconds.

 

[Raven]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32443930

"Waaaaa, we can't scam, steal and cheat as easily as before Waaaa Waaaa"

 

[Bodhi]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32443930

"Waaaaa, we can't scam, steal and cheat as easily as before Waaaa Waaaa"

I think it's more to do with potential rises in banking levies, which tbh should be a concern. HSBC already contribute over £750 million tot he UK coffers, likely to rise to over £1billion this year. That would go even higher if Labour got in, so if HSBC left they would probably have to spend what they raise with this Mansion Tax (for the 10th time) on filling that hole. Not saying we should bend over for them, but I really don't think the banks are half the bogeymen they are made out by the media to be. They contribute a shitload of cash to the Exchequer at the end of the day, and I expect they will payback the bailouts with a nice little profit as well.

 

[Gwadien]

Good news for UKIP?

 

[Bodhi]

Bad news for all of us if the banks start fucking off, as taxes will have to go up to make up for the shortfall.

 

[Zarjazz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32443930

"Waaaaa, we can't scam, steal and cheat as easily as before Waaaa Waaaa"

Well one reason London is such a proportionally large amount of financial institutions is that our regulations are mostly beneficial to them. Banks aren't hanging around just because of tradition or historical reasons, it makes economic sense to have a strong presence in London. HSBC are a special case as so much of their business is now in Asia.

 

[Gwadien]

Bad news for all of us if the banks start fucking off, as taxes will have to go up to make up for the shortfall.

UKIP response - Let us out of Europe and we'll stop the banks going abroad by banning them if they have their HQ abroad.

 

[DaGaffer]

The NHS suffers from the classic nationalised disease, much like BT was before privitisation..the customers were the last on the priority list behind every conceivable regulation, process and entrenched culture.
One guy doing the job with an army of pen pushers behind him.
I'm sure the NHS is still the same because the people given the job to pare it down are the same frickin pen pushers and are pretty good at protecting their own intetests.
They had a management purge in the 90s...by the management...and ended up with more.
I've been to meetings like that myself where they actually put in place entire teams to look at savings while the guy who does it and earns a 100th of this new team could tell you how in 30 seconds.

Sorry but I think this a giant pile of horseshit. The NHS is far from perfect but try healthcare elsewhere, there are maybe half a dozen countries in the world with better public healthcare than the NHS and they all have a much higher tax take than the UK, and France excepted, smaller populations.