The future of EU DAoC

[Teh FnoRd]

Some of you are really fucking stupid. Guess what.... you don't HAVE to read this thread if you don't want to! Make your own opinion up etc., I'm not really bothered... but when you flame the "review" of this expansion that I spent time to write to give you an idea of what NF is like - then yes, I am bothered.

Ooooohhhh Sigurd used the F-word. How civilized of him....
I haven't flamed your "review". I('ve) flame(d) you for beeing narrowminded and not beeing objective what so ever in your so called "review".

This is about Mythic's tendancy to attempt ideas that are either not feasible in the game world they have designed, out of character with the rest of the game, or feel half finished. This includes the lag but also the other wonderful delights (did you know one player can now wipe out a group or ten thanks to boiling oil? Means tanks can't attack the door of an undefended keep unless in a covered ram! So tanks are now useful for... hmm...) and these things are FACTS.

humm more personal opinions... yes opinions to one of the FACTS you hold so dear.
When I first read about NF it said that strategy for keeps take was important. This is one thing that points to that as I read it.

Of course I'm going to venture my own opinion on these facts, why wouldn't I? I'm not a fucking machine, I have a view either way. But the facts are still there. Make up your own mind or whatever, I didn't write the thread to say "QUIT NOW! You'll hate NF for sure!" I wrote it to warn people that once again, Mythic have let down their playerbase, and to not be to excited by the supposed saviour of RvR.

No one says you can't have your own opinins, but you seem to have a hard time to seperate your opinions from your facts... And I think many will agree that you have dipped your "facts" abit deep in your opinions...

 

[Sigurd]

Nothing I write is ever going to be completely objective. I can't write against something I believe in, even hypothetically. There are plenty of completely objective reviews out there I'm sure, you're welcome to read one - but have they played the game from the start? Played every class in the game? Probably not.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Not many people have played every single class in the game. Even if some have I sure others would say they weren't fit to comment on the class that they hold dear because they didn't play the class to 50 or to a high enough realm rank to comment . . .

Suppose whether you like NF will depend on what type of game you like. Guildy disappeared to play his char on a US server, absolutely raved about how the RvR was much better with big arsed battles over keeps. THose that don't like that sort of play will hate it.

Different strokes I suppose.

Personally looking forward to it.

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Nothing I write is ever going to be completely objective. I can't write against something I believe in, even hypothetically. There are plenty of completely objective reviews out there I'm sure, you're welcome to read one - but have they played the game from the start? Played every class in the game? Probably not.

Oh and you have played every single aspect of NF? with every single char available? if not your argument don't hold shit...

 

[Kreig]

I could pick holes in your posts all day long really, here's a start tho;

Nothing I write is ever going to be completely objective. I can't write against something I believe in, even hypothetically. There are plenty of completely objective reviews out there I'm sure, you're welcome to read one - but have they played the game from the start? Played every class in the game? Probably not.

Really? I beg to differ...

I didn't start this thread as a whine. I created it to warn that all was not rosy and merry in the New Frontiers court. I gave an accurate portrayal of my experience, and the experience of others I know (out of my entire alliance of 150+ players, I know of ONE person who really enjoys New Frontiers... that person is a ranger, running the game on the best hardware money can buy, with a buffbot) so it is not mindlessly biased. Why would I write something so biased? What would be the purpose? If I just wanted to whine I'd do it on VNboards, my guild forums, wherever. I'm just informing the Euro players, my ex realmmates, how New Frontiers is percieved where it's being played. People like crypt etc. are playing on lower population servers - mine regularly hits 2800, with up to 700 hibs online on occasion..

Accurate and unbiased ehh? Hypocrit tbh who doesnt know wtf he's talking about, whilst digging the grave deeper with his bare hands.

 

[Sigurd]

No but I think I've played more than, say, a magazine reviewer, so... how about you get back in your box eh? I don't get what is so hard to understand about this for you people. You don't like my thread, then...don't...read...it... and just wait and discover the "delights" of NF for yourself. But if you flame me, I'm just going to flame you back, as anyone who knows me should realize. It's a shame, as I wrote this with the intention of helping people out.

And Kreig? What the fuck are you talking about? It's unbiased BECAUSE most people I know agree with me. What, you think I'm going to ask a nice sample from each server or something? I have better things to do with my time, so GFYS. This is a THREAD not a review in a magazine you're paying for, it's free information, take it or leave it, but if you flame me like a 5 year old who's just been told Father Christmas doesn't exist, I'll just flame you back, mmkay?

 

[Kreig]

No but I think I've played more than, say, a magazine reviewer, so... how about you get back in your box eh? I don't get what is so hard to understand about this for you people. You don't like my thread, then...don't...read...it... and just wait and discover the "delights" of NF for yourself. But if you flame me, I'm just going to flame you back, as anyone who knows me should realize. It's a shame, as I wrote this with the intention of helping people out.

And Kreig? What the fuck are you talking about? It's unbiased BECAUSE most people I know agree with me. What, you think I'm going to ask a nice sample from each server or something? I have better things to do with my time, so GFYS. This is a THREAD not a review in a magazine you're paying for, it's free information, take it or leave it, but if you flame me like a 5 year old who's just been told Father Christmas doesn't exist, I'll just flame you back, mmkay?

Im not flaming you thats for forum retards, im pointing out the obvious which you seem to be missing. So what, you've done a 150+ person interview and questionaire about the good and bad sides to NF .. i dont think so. Basically your just exagerating like all the americans do because you get ppl QQing over /as or /Gu So what? I doubt it would be 150 for one thing, that would be a heck of a lot of spamage And as far as americans go they seem unable to have a indivual view rather than a whimsical OMG NERF or L33t attitude. Yes that is a generalisation and their is always exceptions but on the whole your standing on one leg and at best its bent and broke whilst being pissed... and leaning over a barrel out the front of a gaybar.

You say that its a 2800 pop server on average, 150 ppl thats like FA tbh ( 5.4%), and thats coming from a hib player base of 700 were 21% of the pop actually believe this tripe you talk is the truth?... I dont think so really.

Perhaps your just unlucky and have a bad server, also you personal experience are m00t playing on a machine that is below par. Might as well be playing on 56k for all i care, it doesnt reflect an acurate representation else.

 

[Oro]

Slightly off topic but how can you know you don't like a thread until you've read it? I think this question has been raised before by equally confused people after the usual "If you don't like it don't read it" type comments.

Very muddy logic there.

Anyway. Back to the trolling.

Take it away Siggy

 

[Dimse Dut]

And Kreig? What the fuck are you talking about? It's unbiased BECAUSE most people I know agree with me. QUOTE]

Let me Gues you yell and scream at them if they dont?

 

[Driwen]

Slightly off topic but how can you know you don't like a thread until you've read it? I think this question has been raised before by equally confused people after the usual "If you don't like it don't read it" type comments.

Very muddy logic there.

the logic holds out if it is about a subject you dont like (which is not the case here as all posters here do like talking about NF).

and sigurd your post is biased as you use your opinion in it and that of the loudest people in an alliance of 150+ people. Btw as Kreig said 150 people alliance is really small for a server that has an average of 2800 people on it. 2800 people will mean it will have what two or three times the amount of accounts on it? So your 150 people alliance is a real small portion of the server and then assuming that you actually only see talk of about 20% of those, you can see that the proof your "alliance"(actually just the loudest portion of it) doesnt like NF doesnt have to mean anything.

 

[Oro]

Hmm there are a lot of counter-arguments to that Driwen, but it gets very obscure and offtopic.

I'll settle for this then.

Lets hypothesise a Shrodinger's Cat type experiment.

Before you read Siggy's post, it could either have been a happy joy joy thread or a whine, you don't know until you've read it.

However, suppose, just like the famous cat-in-the-box experiment, its the act of opening the thread that changes the content itself to be one or other. This means that its the reader of the thread that determines the content.
Extrapolating this, it means that its not Siggy's fault it contained biased whine, its the fault of the reader.

See, its all you lot's fault

 

[Driwen]

Hmm there are a lot of counter-arguments to that Driwen, but it gets very obscure and offtopic.

I'll settle for this then.

Lets hypothesise a Shrodinger's Cat type experiment.

Before you read Siggy's post, it could either have been a happy joy joy thread or a whine, you don't know until you've read it.

However, suppose, just like the famous cat-in-the-box experiment, its the act of opening the thread that changes the content itself to be one or other. This means that its the reader of the thread that determines the content.
Extrapolating this, it means that its not Siggy's fault it contained biased whine, its the fault of the reader.

See, its all you lot's fault

I wasnt saying that its sigurds fault that his review was biased, just that it is biased.

Also I meant with my first sentence that if you dont like stand up comedy then you shouldnt go see a stand up comediant as you are sure you wont like it. Same can be said with threads as usually the thread title can give you a clue whats it about. I also said that this is not the case here as the thread title actually can be read wrongly and the topic is about NF, so you can discuss what you think of Sigurd's review.

 

[Garnet]

fed up of this crap now. I cant even do Medusa on a ml3 raid because my computer dies of fps lag, dies and lds even though theres only 4fg of mids on the raid. A FUCKING LOAD OF SHIT TOA IS!! :/

 

[Teh FnoRd]

You don't like my thread, then...don't...read...it... and just wait and discover the "delights" of NF for yourself. But if you flame me, I'm just going to flame you back, as anyone who knows me should realize. It's a shame, as I wrote this with the intention of helping people out.

I do like this thread. Always fun to see people making an arse of themselfs.
And I thank you for you for helping me making up my mind about NF. I don't know how I would manage without your help. Now, can you help me turn of my sarcasm?

 

[Shike]

fed up of this crap now. I cant even do Medusa on a ml3 raid because my computer dies of fps lag, dies and lds even though theres only 4fg of mids on the raid. A FUCKING LOAD OF SHIT TOA IS!! :/

hmm, my wife has a p3-800 with 768MB ram and a gf4-ti4200 atm... and even she can play on MLraids. Sounds as if your PC is shit tbh.

 

[Korax]

fed up of this crap now. I cant even do Medusa on a ml3 raid because my computer dies of fps lag, dies and lds even though theres only 4fg of mids on the raid. A FUCKING LOAD OF SHIT TOA IS!! :/

A FUCKING LOAD OF SHIT YOUR PC IS! (sorry)


Btw. I can play 2 accounts on my puter on ML raids.

 

[Zebolt]

fed up of this crap now. I cant even do Medusa on a ml3 raid because my computer dies of fps lag, dies and lds even though theres only 4fg of mids on the raid. A FUCKING LOAD OF SHIT TOA IS!! :/

Maybe it's your computer that is a fucking load of shit and not ToA

 

[Zebolt]

This is a THREAD not a review in a magazine you're paying for, it's free information

free information or.. free useless whine from a yank noone likes nor lissten to? I know where I would put my money

 

[Zede]

To All the peeps filled with negativity about NF - you are just victims of a very common human condition.


Historically speaking, you naysayers should go to google and type in

"Ned Ludd" or " Luddites "

and you will see are not alone

 

[Korax]

free information or.. free useless whine from a yank noone likes nor lissten to? I know where I would put my money

I kinda have to agree to that. Not much info in this thread.

Lets look at these valuable pieces of information.

First of all I'd like to say congratulations to Mythic. They've finally destroyed our game. New Frontiers is a joke - and a bad one at that. At the moment, if I want to play DAoC at all my only choice is to PvE or play in the battlegrounds -

whine

the lag is too bad in full RvR and my Blademaster is just a meatshield now anyway. Convinced that you'll love New Frontiers anyway? Buy yourself the latest computer. Roll a stealther (archers in particular) caster or hybrid tank - don't even bother with a normal tank, they've been destroyed completely (I haven't seen a single warrior, and only one or two armsmen/heroes in all the battlegrounds I've played

Can't say I know if this is true or not, but things like this has ALWAYS been, and will get fixed sooner or later.

and certainly none when I've managed to lag my way out of Druim Ligen to "full" RvR)

I've tried abit NF, and didn't notice any lag at all. I dunno, might just be my ubarr computer that makes the server work...
Tbh. people have always whined about lag, nothing new here.

The lag and destruction of main and light tanks is bad enough by itself, but the rest? Here's one delightful development from New Frontiers! Certain terrain is impassable because "the ground is too steep" - you cannot progress any further upwards and sometimes you'll even get stuck. This "steep ground" can appear out of nowhere - little riverbanks as tall as a Lurikeen are now apparantly "too steep" for your character to climb. Passes and valleys between mountains are "too steep" leaving you to wonder why the fuck Mythic bothered creating them in the first place. You'll run halfway down a hill, turn around, seeing a bunch of Albs running along the bottom and find out you can't climb up the hill you just ran down. Well thanks for the added realism Mythic.

What a tragic and terrible change, if you read Mythics words on these steep hills you may get an idea why they are there.
If you cant manuver the steep hill, stay away from them. Either way its the same for everyone.

Other terrain features include marsh - which slows your movement, but leads you to wonder "why the hell does this only exist in the frontiers?" and pointless mazes around occasional towers. The new guards are funny - you can be fighting a stealther a foot away from them and they just stand there stupidly. Which leads to the question... why bother placing Mythic's much declared "new hookpoint guards" at all?

I love the slow movement marsh, absolutley brilliant idea. And what would be the use of the slow movement swamp in PvE land? None, so they dont put it there. Pointless mazes are just as pointless as trees and hills.
As for the guards, that sounds like a bug, and how can you say NF sucks because of a bug?

The frontiers have also undergone another strange transformation in this new expansion. These "new improved" frontiers are now a lot smaller BUT, and this is the clever part, still littered with places that no-one will EVER visit. Why is this, you ask? Because the fighting only takes place around and in keeps and their towers. That is all. DAoC is now DAoSieges - and the funniest thing, is that people only bother with the towers. It's actually easier to take the relics than capture a fully upgraded, defended keep now.

Imagine that NF has existed for two years and we've been fighting around keeps throughout the time of DAoC. Then Mythic gives out an expantion called "MG bumping 2k" witch gives you all that you ever desiered.
Sigurd: Finially its here! Now we dont have to fight for our realm to get keeps, from now on I can run from amg to mmg and back and back again and turn around and run back and the other way and, A MID! KILL!!!!"

The untakable keeps seems like a balance issue.

You'd think - now the frontiers are smaller, solo'ers will have it easier... how very wrong you are. A solo'er has to now swim the entire ocean OR port to one of the beach keeps should they actually be taken (I've seen this once, on all the US servers) which basically confines you to your own frontier. Thanks Mythic! It's ok though, because the frontiers have a distinct... sameness to them.

When I visted NF there seemed to be a boat that could take you from the shore to the other realms. It cost 50s (or so) so I didnt get to try it.

Hibernia is Albion only greener, Midgard is Albion only whiter, etc. Huge mountain ranges in little ol' Albion? Why not! Might as well put them in Hibernia too, alongside the typically Irish fjords...

Hm and this is bad, how?

Well, we've determined that New Frontiers is altogether pretty shite, but perhaps the RAs can save it? Perhaps not. For RAs you need RPs for starters - not really happening in New Frontiers - you see, here's the beautiful irony of Mythic's plan - "let's make New Frontiers more accessible to casual players! Let's make everyone capable of finding a battle within minutes!" Hang on a sec, everyone? That means... yep you guessed it. By the time you get there, another 150 of your realm mates have ported and kicked the crap out of the enemy. IF you're lucky you might get there early and earn your 1 RP. So, with your 1 RP, what will you buy?

How is it, that 150 people of your realm show up, but NONE from the enemy realms? Anyway, as people get easier to battle, they will die faster, meaning there will be more killing in NF then usual. This means that there will be a larger RP flow, meaning that what you are saying is not true at all.
Btw, im clueless so if my logic is incorrect, please correct me.

Well purge is essential. Capped purge as that's the only one worth getting, so there goes a third of your entire realm points (assuming you're RR10 already - if you're not, you have a long and fun-packed journey ahead of you!) thanks Mythic once again for making it nice and easy. Once you've spend 30 realm skill points on purge, what should you get next? Well if you're a hybrid you're lucky, you have a few hundred little delights to choose from. Stealthers are equally blessed, although just stuffing everying in Viper (doubly effective poison as far as I'm aware) seems to be the best idea for our little stealthy friends. Support classes MUST get perfect recovery (thanks again mythic) and tanks should just delete or sell their accounts to be honest. Once you have your remarkably similar to those around you realm abilities - you're ready to play! Or not. Most likely you'll be lagged to death just trying to port to a keep.

Unless you are RR10 you shouldn't go for purge3, but purge 1 (you know, they let you chose). Purge 1 is half the price it used to be, can be used every 15 min, but has the drawback that its rather useless vs. stun. I cant see how purge3 is the only choice here.

The support classes must get PR? You mean the same way, druids MUST get GP now? The same way mincers MUST get SOS? The same way clerics MUST get BOF? The same way it has always been? This is outrageous!

The only valid point in this post is about tanks. If thats true that is. Anyway, it don't seem like a permanenet change. I wish I could go read the general opinion on this somewhere, but vn boards has never been a reliable source. Could take a look and see if I could find something though.

 

[Sigurd]

free information or.. free useless whine from a yank noone likes nor lissten to? I know where I would put my money

Hey fucktard, I'm not american. I moved to the american servers because stupid people are more fun to play with than assholes like yourself. Perhaps you could aid us all by removing yourself though? My computer isn't the issue. You want to buy me the £2000 latest PC, go ahead, I have better things to spend my money on...

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Ooooohhhh more F-words against people that don't share Sigurds opinions. My respect for Sigurd is growing by the minute!

 

[Megarevs]

why dont u just leave the game if u dont like it?
and ur computer must be an issue as ur lagging.. i myself can use 2 accounts on ml3 raids

 

[Sigurd]

Ooooohhhh more F-words against people that don't share Sigurds opinions. My respect for Sigurd is growing by the minute!

You've done nothing but flame since you entered this thread... I only flame people who flame me if you can open your shit-crusted eyes for long enough to see this.

 

[Zebolt]

Hey fucktard, I'm not american. I moved to the american servers because stupid people are more fun to play with than assholes like yourself. Perhaps you could aid us all by removing yourself though? My computer isn't the issue. You want to buy me the £2000 latest PC, go ahead, I have better things to spend my money on...

Ok, so basically you moved to the US servers cuz' you knew you could never be better than the normal euro player, but in the US someone would actually notice you?

And why should I remove myself from the game? Im not the one whining on the game saying it suck. Im not the one going around saying everyone is wrong cuz' they don't think like me. Im not calling everyone names cuz' they happen to say something I don't like.

Ppl respect me on the server I play and I have alot of friend I have fun playing with. If you think the game suck so much why don't you just simply quit? Or maybe you are too weak..

You've done nothing but flame since you entered this thread... I only flame people who flame me if you can open your shit-crusted eyes for long enough to see this.

Ow, so now you have to start lieing to make yourself look better? If you look back at your posts, maybe you'll see who is flaming who first ^^

 

[Thorwyn]

I think there are a couple of false assumptions in your observations.

First off, DAOC isn´t "our" game. And the playerbase doesn´t make the design. We just happen to like the game and decided to play it. Keeping the current playerbase happy is just one aspect of the design. Old players will leave the game sooner or later. A change like NF is the result of a careful observation of the market and a startegical decision. As soon as other games start copying DAOC´s system, it´s getting harder and harder. Resting on a success isn´t the way to go. If Mythic didn´t change anything, the game would indeed die pretty soon. Games like DAOC need to stay competitive and attractive for new players. Therefor, a rework of the gfx and the general look is unavoidable. Can you imagine new players being impressed by the crappy gfx it has today, when WoW and EQ are waiting with tons and tons of eyecandy? However, increase of the gfx means using proper hardware. You can´t create something decent on a 1GHz PC with a gfx card that doesn´t even support the latest DirectX drivers. This automatically leads to:

Yes.. we all NEED to get new hardware to play DAOC properly... sooner or later. That´s a normal mechanism of the market. How can we expect people to buy DAOC in a year from now, when their machines are obscenely overdimensionized because the game might as well run on a P3/800 and a 5 year old gfx card? People will always look at their hardware and buy something that fits their hardware requirements. The usual quote "but my computer is fine, I don´t want to spend money for a new one!" isn´t exactly new. I hear this day in day out. But hey.... if you don´t want to keep your system at least marginally up to date for an improved version of the game you´ve spend 2 years playing... what other reason do you need to upgrade your machine? I know it hurts to say it, but if you want performance and play your game fluently, take care of your hardware. Now please don´t come with "but game X runs fine!" examples. Believe me, as soon as Doom3 is out and everybody else will start to use DirectX9 to full potential, you will have the choice of playing 2 year old budget games or upgrade. Hardware evolution is something we can´t stop.

Mythic didn´t "let down their playerbase". NF might be a radical change to the RvR we know, but then, if you´re looking at all the boards, nobody is happy with todays state of RvR. Relicraids and Keepfights have become an utterly redundant aspect of the game. The endgame in todays DAOC is zerg and this can´t be "it". And Mythic was actually listening to their current playerbase... and finally changed the RvR aspect. Now, if that´s good or bad is a matter of taste. You obviously don´t like it, others might. Changing the balance and the mechanisms of a game always means changing the impact of certain classes. Tanks are going to be less effective in NF, true. But then... so what? It´s impossible to create a situation where everyone is equally effective. As soon as the population of tanks will decrease more and more, they will boost the role of tanks again.

Well... those are just a couple of points that I thought are worth thinking about and need to be taken into consideration when you´re looking at something new like NF.

 

[Sigurd]

Ok, so basically you moved to the US servers cuz' you knew you could never be better than the normal euro player, but in the US someone would actually notice you?

And why should I remove myself from the game? Im not the one whining on the game saying it suck. Im not the one going around saying everyone is wrong cuz' they don't think like me. Im not calling everyone names cuz' they happen to say something I don't like.

Ppl respect me on the server I play and I have alot of friend I have fun playing with. If you think the game suck so much why don't you just simply quit? Or maybe you are too weak..


Ow, so now you have to start lieing to make yourself look better? If you look back at your posts, maybe you'll see who is flaming who first ^^

Once again you prove yourself to be a fucktard. I don't care about rankings or anything... I play the game for fun. Can you grasp that with your tiny mind? Great! Now look back at the first post. Was it a flame? Nope. Consequent posts by others did however flame me, and so I didn't start this crap. And people respect you on your server... go you! For all I care, Jesus may love you, but I think you're a ****.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

You've done nothing but flame since you entered this thread... I only flame people who flame me if you can open your shit-crusted eyes for long enough to see this.

This thread has been a whine/flame from the very first post. Several of the points raised have been fixed already, and archers got nerfed last night. Don't whine before NF is actually truly live. (Right now it's still in Beta.)

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Ow, so now you have to start lieing to make yourself look better? If you look back at your posts, maybe you'll see who is flaming who first ^^

What Zebolt said.

You've done nothing but flame since you entered this thread... I only flame people who flame me if you can open your shit-crusted eyes for long enough to see this.

If questioning your opinions and flaming of others and myself is flaming, at least I do it with style and not like some random 8-year old who didn't get any candy! ^^

 

[Sigurd]

The opening post was never intended as a flame. Something of a reprimand to Mythic maybe, but it was intended as a warning of NF's little (and not so) nuances. If you took it the wrong way, you must be looking for a flame...