Formula 1 The F1 jibber jabber thread.

Wij

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I really wish they would stop describing that ending as a race, it wasn't anything more than an execution at the hands of Masi.
Well it was a bit like expecting someone at the end of a marathon to have a fair chance in the last 100 meters against a sprinter placed 100m before the line.

Sure, you COULD call it a race if you are a dick.
 

Jupitus

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Appeal lodged, unsurprisingly. Let's see if CAS is as forgiving of the FIA as the FIA is.
I believe (correct me if wrong) that this is still in the FIA appeal process until a deadline of Thursday - any CAS appeals would fall beyond that. Personally, I hope they don't go there...
 

Ormorof

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In a season or two no one but die hard Lewis fans will even remember the controversy, will Hamilton even want the championship to be handed to him by a court if it goes to CAS?
 

Raven

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Ordinarily, probably not, but this is such a huge stitch up that I don't think they can do anything else.
 

DaGaffer

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In a season or two no one but die hard Lewis fans will even remember the controversy, will Hamilton even want the championship to be handed to him by a court if it goes to CAS?
I think the problem is Masi's actions have created a really terrible precedent, and even if Mercedes don't turn over the result (and I doubt they will) they have to shine a light on this shit to make sure it can't happen again.
 

Gwadien

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I think the problem is Masi's actions have created a really terrible precedent, and even if Mercedes don't turn over the result (and I doubt they will) they have to shine a light on this shit to make sure it can't happen again.
Plus they get the photo finish to a great season which I'm sure it will be remembered as - but those that actually saw it know it's bullshit.
 

caLLous

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I think the problem is Masi's actions have created a really terrible precedent, and even if Mercedes don't turn over the result (and I doubt they will) they have to shine a light on this shit to make sure it can't happen again.
It's for that reason only that I want them to pursue it as far and hard as they can. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, this soap opera cum reality TV bullshit should have no place anywhere near it. An epic year-long battle and it comes down to the FIA basically picking a winner.

I don't expect a judgment to overturn the result (for one thing it'd be unbearably unfair on Verstappen who - this time - didn't do anything wrong) but Liberty et al need to know this can't happen again.
 

Raven

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It just ruined what would be an epic finish to the season. The race had enough drama without the complete mess of the final lap. Perez was awesome at fucking about with Hamilton and all completely fair and legal too, proper racing. Then that on the last lap. What a complete let-down. Hamilton had managed his tyres and car better than anyone else and was clearly winning.
 

Raven

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There is also the thing that ultimately Verstappen will know that he had lost the championship up until a force completely separate to the drivers and teams on the track, in the paddock and team members at home, just made something up on the spot.

Yes it was extremely close, yes Verstappen is a worthy winner over the season...but he wasn't quite the winner and shouldn't have been, Hamilton was in total control of the final race (and many of the previous races too, huge come back on points over several races)
 

caLLous

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A total clusterfuck. Everybody behind Lewis whose first name wasn't Max was considered irrelevant.

 

caLLous

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No appeal, working "with" the FIA to "create clarity for the future, so that all competitors know the rules under which they are racing, and how they will be enforced." The fact that 3/4 of the field were left either furious or utterly confused makes me think they did "know the rules" and just weren't expecting them to randomly change to construct an unfair finale.

 

Raven

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That guys decision lost my brother in law a load of money in bonuses for the team win.
 

Aoami

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No appeal, working "with" the FIA to "create clarity for the future, so that all competitors know the rules under which they are racing, and how they will be enforced." The fact that 3/4 of the field were left either furious or utterly confused makes me think they did "know the rules" and just weren't expecting them to randomly change to construct an unfair finale.

They definitely just made it up to engineer an exciting finish. Which wasn't actually exciting because obviously Verstappen had a massive advantage. If anyone thought it would be overturned though they need their heads checking.
 

Jupitus

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Rules are rules...unless on the last lap of a championship deciding race it seems.
It was in response to a journo's question... I am sure they won't enforce that...
 

Gwadien

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Just hope they don’t put in another glory-hunting dickhead.
I dunno, I feel like this is similar to the resignation of Dick in the Met.

What is it actually achieving? It's pretty easy for the top dogs to give out orders to the likes of Masi to make it more entertaining than sport/balanced playing field, then throw him under the bus when the call gets a negative response.

I only got properly into F1 a couple of years ago, but now I feel like if this season sees similar shit then it can't be fixed and its clear it's entertainment over sport.

Fuck, may as well just watch the drive to survive at the end of the year; that's how they want it be watched anyway.
 

Raven

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I dunno, I feel like this is similar to the resignation of Dick in the Met.

What is it actually achieving? It's pretty easy for the top dogs to give out orders to the likes of Masi to make it more entertaining than sport/balanced playing field, then throw him under the bus when the call gets a negative response.

I only got properly into F1 a couple of years ago, but now I feel like if this season sees similar shit then it can't be fixed and its clear it's entertainment over sport.

Fuck, may as well just watch the drive to survive at the end of the year; that's how they want it be watched anyway.
There is more to F1 than cars bombing round a track, Hamilton absolutely bossed that last race (and much of the previous few races) Merc got the tactics absolutely spot on, only for Horner to start whinging to his mate the race director. I am still undecided whether I even bother watching it any more.
 

DaGaffer

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I dunno, I feel like this is similar to the resignation of Dick in the Met.

What is it actually achieving? It's pretty easy for the top dogs to give out orders to the likes of Masi to make it more entertaining than sport/balanced playing field, then throw him under the bus when the call gets a negative response.

I only got properly into F1 a couple of years ago, but now I feel like if this season sees similar shit then it can't be fixed and its clear it's entertainment over sport.

Fuck, may as well just watch the drive to survive at the end of the year; that's how they want it be watched anyway.
Nah, he made a very, very bad call, at the end of a season of making them. Getting rid of him is not only the right call politically, its the right call objectively.
 

Jupitus

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Seems a decent step forward to me, rather than a simple sack / replace scenario. The 2 race directors selected to alternate both have bundles of experience, and when you add Herbie Blash into the mix it should make for a very strong team. If I have any concern, it would be over the 'alternating' possibly contributing to inconsistences, but let's see.
 

DaGaffer

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Seems a decent step forward to me, rather than a simple sack / replace scenario. The 2 race directors selected to alternate both have bundles of experience, and when you add Herbie Blash into the mix it should make for a very strong team. If I have any concern, it would be over the 'alternating' possibly contributing to inconsistences, but let's see.
Personally I'd ban all in-race protests or "requests for clarification" from the teams. Its not a democracy.
 

Jupitus

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Personally I'd ban all in-race protests or "requests for clarification" from the teams. Its not a democracy.
I can see the sense in that, but I think until things settle and more consistency is established, the teams probably want some kind of conduit for objections... perhaps in a couple of years it won't be needed, but in all honesty in such a complex and fast-paced activity that may not be possible...
 

caLLous

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They're not going to broadcast the comms between teams and the race director and I think they're going to limit how those interactions can happen so they can't just ring him up (or send an email in Toto's case) and whine every time something doesn't go their way. Also there'll be some sort of full-time remote VAR system (*@Scouse noises intensify*) to support the on-site stewards/director.

Masi going was the big one for me, his position was simply untenable after several bad decisions throughout the season and that absolute shower of shit in Abu Dhabi as a climax. I don't care that all the teams gave him a mandate to not let races finish under the safety car (or whatever) - he made several decisions knowing full well the consequences would gift the Championship to one of the drivers. There were several avenues open to him that didn't involve finishing under the safety car (and if an accident isn't cleared by the time the race ends then tough shit), what he did was disgusting from a sporting point of view.
 

Scouse

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I personally think he made the call he was supposed to make, then got fired (with a payoff).

Theatre.
 

DaGaffer

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They're not going to broadcast the comms between teams and the race director and I think they're going to limit how those interactions can happen so they can't just ring him up (or send an email in Toto's case) and whine every time something doesn't go their way. Also there'll be some sort of full-time remote VAR system (*@Scouse noises intensify*) to support the on-site stewards/director.

Masi going was the big one for me, his position was simply untenable after several bad decisions throughout the season and that absolute shower of shit in Abu Dhabi as a climax. I don't care that all the teams gave him a mandate to not let races finish under the safety car (or whatever) - he made several decisions knowing full well the consequences would gift the Championship to one of the drivers. There were several avenues open to him that didn't involve finishing under the safety car (and if an accident isn't cleared by the time the race ends then tough shit), what he did was disgusting from a sporting point of view.
I'm actually fascinated they didn't have a "full time VAR" system already, given F1 has literally the most video coverage of any sport on the Planet. As for contacting in the Stewards, its good they're going to limit it; it had clearly become the F1 equivalent of crowding the referee (Horner was the worst offender but by no means the only one) and needs to be stamped out ruthlessly.
 

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