The decline of Midgard....

[Xajorkith]

I ran my stats program to generate the stats for the Stealther thread and noticed a few odd things.

The stats were only concerned with RvR active characters (i.e. On last week and got more than 10,000 rps).

1. Both Hibernia and Albion have more than double the number of RvR active primary healers than Midgard, as the Healer is the cornerstone of a Mid group particularly as it provides both CC & Heals it’s decline hugely damages the overall effectiveness of Midgard RvR. Cleric 109, Druid 90, Healer 53.

2. The number of stealthers compared to visuals has shot up, it seems group building especially for Midgard is problematic so more are resorting to their stealthers, or more likely more of Midgards casual visual player have quit just leaving the stealthers behind. Stealthers make up 20% of active RvR.

3. The average realm Rank of a Midgard player is much higher than both of Hibernia and Albion, this is indicating that most of the casuals have left and only the hard core remain, Albion and Hibernia are roughly equal in terms of overall Realm Rank.

4. The active RvR population (>10,000) rps is Albion 37%, Hibernia 35%, Midgard 28%, this equates to Albion having almost 25% more players than Midgard.

5. Not suprising the game is all about Casters and Stealthers and classes suitable for optimised FG. Tanks even after their loving… are still unloved.

So if you want to roll a char roll a Healer on Midgard….

 

[Vodkafairy]

ever thought of the fact a large part of those clerics and druids are bots?

 

[Xajorkith]

ever thought of the fact a large part of those clerics and druids are bots?

Most bots don't get more than 10,000 rps a week.....and if they are then they are not bots.....also by the same token if what you said was true... then the Shaman population would be well up ... which they are not.... my bot had 18,000 rps and was 3 years old.....

 

[Void959]

Pointless to draw conclusions from 1 week of data imo.

 

[Mas]

The problem lies in most grps not accepting random casuals, most people would rather duo/trio until somone pops on their friends/guild list and inv them to group first. Whereas judging by the groups that come to odins the rr3 pug grps etc the other 2 realms are more willing to group to get their rp.

 

[Xajorkith]

Pointless to draw conclusions from 1 week of data imo.

Rubbish.

If I run the stats next week they'll say roughly the same thing.... nothing drastically changes in DAoC, the decline is slow.
Are you saying that last was week not a typical week?

 

[Zoia]

I'm sure a few of those are DI bots.

Edit: i don't think DI bots are as common in mid, as most people don't run 3 accounts.

 

[Shalom]

Why do people insist on repeating the same thing over and over again. YES EVERYONE KNOWS DAOC IS DYING, STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT.

 

[Void959]

Rubbish.

If I run the stats next week they'll say roughly the same thing.... nothing drastically changes in DAoC, the decline is slow... are you saying that last week not a typical week?

Yes I am. The RvR dynamics in daoc move in short-term cycles of 1-2 weeks often, with iRvR in one realm and then another, and every realm has periods of less activity relative to normal based around the current situation. I'm not saying just that last week was not a typical week, I'm saying there is no such thing as a typical week and that you need data over 1 month or more to say anything decisive.

 

[Raven]

Why do people insist on repeating the same thing over and over again. YES EVERYONE KNOWS DAOC IS DYING, STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT.

well said, its on its arse and not getting back up again, get over it people.

 

[Puppet]

I dunno, but I dont thrust conclusions from statistics by someone who said 'Warlocks are hardmode, and rangers are the easiest mode ever'.

 

[Xajorkith]

ever thought of the fact a large part of those clerics and druids are bots?

I changed my mind, my apologies; I think you're right....

Albion and Hibernia have a plentiful supply of main healers.... if a group lacks a main healer it's easier for Alb or Hib to log on their BB, this means they can create groups a bit easier and thus get the rps.... Mid can't do that... most Shaman BBs are Aug / Cave.... they make crap healers.... This could indicate why Mid is declining faster than the other two realms????

For a brief period this was alleviated because Warlocks were in every group... and they helped supplement the healing but after their nerf this happens much less.

Midgard really does need more healers......

 

[Zoia]

Valks get a mending line soon!

 

[Raimo]

I changed my mind, my apologies; I think you're right....

Albion and Hibernia have a plentiful supply of main healers.... if a group lacks a main healer it's easier for Alb or Hib to log on their BB, this means they can create groups a bit easier and thus get the rps.... Mid can't do that... most Shaman BBs are Aug / Cave.... they make crap healers.... This could indicate why Mid is declining faster than the other two realms????

For a brief period this was alleviated because Warlocks were in every group... and they helped supplement the healing but after their nerf this happens much less.

Midgard really does need more healers......

Shaman is purely for the interupts in a fg vs fg fights not for healing !!

 

[Xajorkith]

Valks get a mending line soon!

Valid point, so Mythic do know what they are doing

 

[Vodkafairy]

i did misread the over 10k a week thing, quite a few would still be bots but not all really. and you can't just "log your bot" if you lack a main healing class, in most cases the char is either 1) badly equipped or 2) specced for little to no healing

 

[Finculin]

i did misread the over 10k a week thing, quite a few would still be bots but not all really. and you can't just "log your bot" if you lack a main healing class, in most cases the char is either 1) badly equipped or 2) specced for little to no healing

Hmm...dont most druids go 44 buff/31 heal/4 root ? (in hib anyway)

Thats a decent rvr spec too so should be quite alot of them out there. I know Ive reloged to my bot on quite a few occations when we are low on druids.

Regarding the 10k though, its quite possible that both Hib and Alb run quite alot of DI bots on stick when going to tower/keep defences. And therefor they get the rps. Even though that is a nice advantage it doesnt mean that those druids are activly played. (Again I know I do that from time to time)

Shamans/Valkyries are not main healing in Midgard even after patch, they cant be compared to druids/clerics when it comes to healing. They are more along the lines of Bards/Friars.

With that said, Its interresting data, that does correlate with the visuals you get when trying to play Midgard. Both Shamans and Healers are virtually gone from the random player scene. So the info points to "...something beeing wrong in the state of Denmark!", but to get more decisive proof, more and prolonged checks is probably necessary.

/Finculin

 

[Straef]

I changed my mind, my apologies; I think you're right....

Albion and Hibernia have a plentiful supply of main healers.... if a group lacks a main healer it's easier for Alb or Hib to log on their BB, this means they can create groups a bit easier and thus get the rps.... Mid can't do that... most Shaman BBs are Aug / Cave.... they make crap healers.... This could indicate why Mid is declining faster than the other two realms????

For a brief period this was alleviated because Warlocks were in every group... and they helped supplement the healing but after their nerf this happens much less.

Midgard really does need more healers......

An alb/hib buffbot might have 2x rejuv, and that at a very low realm rank. There's no way a buffbot would be used in any near-decent group, even as a last resort. I think the number of times I grouped a buffbot in rvr could be count on one hand, and I never had one in a group that performed even remotely well.

Valid point, so Mythic do know what they are doing

It might be a good thing on this cluster, but it might fuck things up badly on heavily populated servers, who knows.

Hmm...dont most druids go 44 buff/31 heal/4 root ? (in hib anyway)

Thats a decent rvr spec to so should be quite alot of them out there. I know Ive reloged to my bot on quite a few occations when we are low on druids.

/Finculin

My buffbot, for one, has 4x enhance and the rest rejuv, but I expect the majority of the buffbots, at least the ones used by people that mainly solo, to be full enhance, tho I can hardly prove that.

 

[Vodkafairy]

just take a look at most of the bots and see how they are equipped in hib its still very nice to go 44/31 though, but in alb especially people like to get the top healproc

 

[Xajorkith]

An alb/hib buffbot might have 2x rejuv, and that at a very low realm rank. There's no way a buffbot would be used in any near-decent group, even as a last resort. I think the number of times I grouped a buffbot in rvr could be count on one hand, and I never had one in a group that performed even remotely well.

So what people are saying is that Albion has more than double the number of primary healers than Midgard purely down to DI bots?

So we saying that Albion, Hibernia, Midgard all roughly (at least comparable to the overall population) have the same number of fully played Main healers?

Do Albion and Hibernia suffer from lack of main healers too? (I don't think anyone disputes Midgard does.)

 

[Finculin]

I think the number of times I grouped a buffbot in rvr could be count on one hand, and I never had one in a group that performed even remotely well.

Hehe, well during Mastards first RvR event I played my BB Bereth (fully toad and templated). After 1 hour 35 minutes I was second on heal list with 88k healed and first one having 1 hour more played and 3k more healing.

Now that aint to shabby for "just" a BB!

Do Albion and Hibernia suffer from lack of main healers too?

Well, for decent FG vs FG setups, yes. Atleast when playing Hib, its abit hard, even if not impossible to get 2 druids and a decent bard. (even though Id say we are lacking bards more than Druids, mostly because alot of the times in Random groups people might be willing to relog and play their BBs (in my experience).

/Finculin

 

[Golena]

My buffbot, for one, has 4x enhance and the rest rejuv, but I expect the majority of the buffbots, at least the ones used by people that mainly solo, to be full enhance, tho I can hardly prove that.

I actually think it's a good point and one i've been aware of for a while. I know many people on alb that have clerics specced 31 rejuv, 44 enhance simply because they can use them as a very viable bot for buffing up their chars, you lose the top str/con but with 25% heal bonus it's not that important (see point 2), but you also gain another character you can play in rvr. Sure die hard soloers, or people that wouldn't play a cleric if it was the only class in the game will go 50 enhance and have crap gear, many people might have a lower enhance/higher rejuv cleric on account 2 however for buffing the other account they can double up as a playing cleric.

Lets forget about the leet people here, because they arn't the ones that are important. Leet groups will have players playing healers since they play in set groups, that's not an issue. What's missing from Mid is the random pug groups. These are created by the people that don't really mind missing out on 5 str/con if they can log their bot on when theres a group short of a cleric and play that as a valid healer.

On alb/hib you can create a healing class that can double up as a buffbot for your other account, in mid you can't do this, it's either a bot or a healer.. This means it's much more tempting for an alb/hib player to actually roll a healing class since it's not wasted should they not want to play it. Only people actually wanting to play a healing class on mid play them. It's also a very stressful class to play, being main CC'er and healer is alot of pressure and tends to result in you being the person the blame is pointed at when it goes wrong (healer has a good night, group does well, healer has a bad night, group does badly).

It's no different to the hib groups complaining about the lack of bards. Other than alb having the arthur thing it's probably also a reason why it appeals more to the roleplaying/zerg element, as it's main healer makes a nice bot, and it's main CC is a great solo caster. This means getting the basics in your pug is easier than on any of the other 2 realms (and i'm talking about random pugs not set groups, where mid/hib can probably get more util in the perfect 8 class groups, alb can grab 2 common classes and make a group that can do something)

 

[Golena]

Hehe, well during Mastards first RvR event I played my BB Bereth (fully toad and templated). After 1 hour 35 minutes I was second on heal list with 88k healed and first one having 1 hour more played and 3k more healing.

Now that aint to shabby for "just" a BB!

It's an example although I dislike people using /stats heal as signs that they are performing well as a healer. Spreadheals don't count on the list so most people with 30+ rejuv, especially in a keep fight situation where you tend to be out of sight in a fop most of them time will be healing for double your amounts and not moving up /stats heal at all.

 

[Bondoila]

I changed my mind, my apologies; I think you're right....

Albion and Hibernia have a plentiful supply of main healers.... if a group lacks a main healer it's easier for Alb or Hib to log on their BB, this means they can create groups a bit easier and thus get the rps.... Mid can't do that... most Shaman BBs are Aug / Cave.... they make crap healers.... This could indicate why Mid is declining faster than the other two realms????

For a brief period this was alleviated because Warlocks were in every group... and they helped supplement the healing but after their nerf this happens much less.

Midgard really does need more healers......

Your not that smart are you, aug/cave is what you going to have on a shammy. A shammy bb would work in a rvr grp with the first aoe root and moc for shear(only missing out the insta aoe disease).
Playing with a bb(druid) in a rvr group is the most silliest thing I ever heard, who would be that stupid.

 

[Wholdar]

Your not that smart are you, aug/cave is what you going to have on a shammy.

Not really, many go for mending after aug to get higher ress (30% instead of 10%) and to get frigg to use in pve, not to mention slightly better heals.

/j

 

[Golena]

Your not that smart are you

Pot... Kettle.... some dark colour!

aug/cave is what you going to have on a shammy. A shammy bb would work in a rvr grp with the first aoe root and moc for shear(only missing out the insta aoe disease).

So you'd play with a shammy buffbot as a healer in your group.. this is what the thread is about or did that small detail pass you by?

but....!!!

Playing with a bb(druid) in a rvr group is the most silliest thing I ever heard, who would be that stupid.

Many many pugs would be that stupid. It's not really people playing bots as healers in groups. It's people being able to use their healers as bots, making them much more attractive to roll in the first place.

 

[Fyric]

perhaps the reason that midgard is declining is that people have finally realised how overpowered midgard really is and think its too boring now!?!

 

[Ronso]

Most bots don't get more than 10,000 rps a week.....and if they are then they are not bots....

Rofl ..that was smooth

 

[MesS°]

For casuals: Alb >> Hib > Mid.
That would result in alb casuals playing more and hanging on the game longer, therefor having a population advantage. The alb elite would have to fight harder to beat the other realms elite, though. Wich is allso the case today.

For OPted groups: Mid > Hib >> Alb.
And again this results in mid and hib having fewer groups running, because of missing key classes. The elite however is having an easier time agains its oponents. And would explain a higher RR avarage.

This allso falls inline with mid and hib allways have been more vocal about wanting 8v8 fights, its human nature after all. Ofcause they want the game to turn in the direction they have the best advantage.

I dont think its allways been like this though. Alb has allmost allways been easier on casuals. And hibs/mids have allways had an easier time in 8v8.
But back in .5x and beginning of .6x i remember us having a hard time finding sorc's and cleric's. Sorcs didnt become fotm untill SI/lvl50 LT as i remember it.
Hib seemed to be doing best in 8v8 before savages, but i my memory fails me abit from that period, must have doing abit to much painting.
Overall its allways been like this, its just more apparant now, with less ppl online.

 

[Gilbride]

So you'd play with a shammy buffbot as a healer in your group.. this is what the thread is about or did that small detail pass you by?

actually, a shamans role in a group never was to be a healer, and as such, you would rather use the class as it usually is in a group rather than as something else. now a druid/cleric buffbot will usually make a pretty terrible healer in an RvR group-situation, i e won't support his role in a group very well. a shaman buffbot can, as mentioned, still support his role in a group, since augmentation is the mainspec of a shaman in any group, and as a buffbot.

so that small detail could easily be twisted around ;s and it would imo make more sense comparing them in their own grouproles.