Question The Death of "Proper" FPS's?

[Scouse]

Yes, I know. A game thread. In General! Sorry

I've had a bee in my bonnet for quite a while about this: The ability to earn XP in first person shooters

IMHO - it's fucking lame. Really really fucking lame. It's for n00bs, shitheads and kids.

And produces shit feelings like this:

Spending hours upon hours getting lv. 15 so you can use magnum aim just to compete with every fucker out there is great fun.

Every map I go on seems to be full of Level 50s now. Some people have way too much time on their hands.

XP removes the skill element to a very large extent. Whatever happened to the idea of a level playing field?

You buy a game, start playing and you have to put up with some 12 year old fucktard who's spent 5 full days playing in the last week so he can "earn" the shiny homing jizzcannon of auto-win just prior to peppering the field, killing half his team mates along with you and then declaring (in capitals) his ultimate skill.

When you have the audacity to slowly walk up to the fucker and stab him in the face you're now immediately pronounced a hackz0r n00b and become the subject of a kick vote. That's not particularly new - but even more galling simply because he's holding his penisgobbergun but doesn't know how to point it.

I've been sticking with L4D2 because at least success at Versus means that the three other players with you are working as a team - but I miss a big free-for-all (or even a decent capture the flag).

L4D's biggest problem is the number of ragers. People quit as soon as they're losing. Or if they realise they may not win.

I think this a partly a knock-on effect of the n00bing-up of most FPS's with better weapons simply for people who spend more time in-game: It makes shit players feel better than they really are and when they come to a game where winning is based on skill and teamwork rather than having better weaponry they cry and rage and leave


If more games had a level playing field then shit players would have to work harder to succeed. Or they could fuck off and play hello kitty island adventure instead. As it is, FPS's nowadays, for the most part, suck fat pony cock.

Not because they're no fun. But because they never reach the heights that they could when everyone was treated equally


Is it just me?

 

[Sparx]

i like the replay-ability something to achieve more than just self satisfaction. It gets boring after awhile only killing

 

[throdgrain]

Both of your quotes are from people who play BC2, a game you've never played

You can shoot people just as easy with the early guns as you can with the later guns. There are no more guns/power-ups/whatever you want to call them after rank 26-ish, so the rank 50 comment is more about the amount of time someone has played than anything else, which I expect is what the comment was initially about.

I really dont think that the XP issue is in any way detrimental in BC2. Or even MW2 - spit - or whatever, because they mostly make the lower guns more than capable of killing people. I still use the M24 for sniping on non-hardcore servers.

I do think that the recording of stats is more detrimental to gaming. Your KD ratio is sold as the biggest thing in most games, which is a joke as it stops people trying to achieve objectives and makes them hide at the back to stay alive. Try SDCSS server for an excellent example!

 

[Wij]

QW DM kthxbye.

 

[chipper]

theres alot of valid points and i agree with them theres a world of difference between bf1942 and say bad company 2 i dont agree with having to unlock guns if you want to add ranks fine but dont let them have anything other than bragging rights.

it also ruins it for clan matches because a clan has to spend ages trying to unlock weapons just to play matches was none of this in CS or BF1942 it was pick your class and get good at it.

i wouldnt say it was death of fps more like the evolution of fps altho not for the better i do enjoy BC 2 but it feels like im in a race not playin for the hell of it.

 

[DaGaffer]

Is it just me?

Yes, yes it is.

XP can completely imbalance the game (MW2 is the most obvious example), but if its done right it gives the game an added dimension and it also encourages balance; in BC2 there's an incentive to switch classes; not everyone cares, but on a given map you'll get enough people trying to get a reward in a certain class to stop everyone sitting there as a sniper or whatever. Without that certain maps will always lend themselves to domination by certain classes (Panama canal is engineer heaven for instance).

If you're going to have any kind of scoring system in an FPS (and of course you can argue that "terrorists win" is all you need), then XP, if done properly, makes the game more interesting. The biggest problem with XP is getting the balance right between grinding, making it too easy (and the number of level 50s on BC2 suggests they got that slightly wrong) and encouraging behaviour that causes imbalances in classes (e.g. its shitloads easier to rack up big scores as a medic on almost every map, whereas engineers get far fewer opportunities).

*edit* Yes Throd it was a time comment rather than any particular complaint about l33t skillz or moaning they have better weapons. As you said, the unlocks don't particularly "get better" in BC2, just different. My favourite engineer SMG for instance is the Scar-L which was my second unlock.

 

[Scouse]

i like the replay-ability something to achieve more than just self satisfaction. It gets boring after awhile only killing

It used to be that the gameplay was so much fun that you'd go back and replay for a long time anyway.

I never felt the addition of "achievements" added anything to the gameplay. These additions made the game more about the individual - to the detriment of the game itself.

It's also tremendous encouragement to hack or find some exploit or ultimate camper spot - 'cause all the kiddies want the best score in the world - often even sacrificing helping their team winn for personal score. (Something me and throddy agree on).

QW DM kthxbye.

It'd be nice if there was something new on the horizon tho eh? Perhaps that wasn't a WWII clone, a war-realism fix or some wanky "horror" genre...

I miss Tribes 1 still

 

[Scouse]

Yes, yes it is.

Turns out it's not eh?

 

[Wij]

It'd be nice if there was something new on the horizon tho eh? Perhaps that wasn't a WWII clone, a war-realism fix or some wanky "horror" genre...

There was the rather good Painkiller DM a few years back but nobody bought it so companies stuck to WW2 and realism.

/edit: and the lovely original UT was utter balls in all the newer versions.

 

[DaGaffer]

/edit: and the lovely original UT was utter balls in all the newer versions.

I think UT is still my all-time favourite FPS. From the time just before everyone became obsessed with graphics at the expense of gameplay, and people were creating (really good) maps by the bucketload.

 

[Scouse]

Loved UT also. Probably my second favourite. But loved the jetpacks even more


I think that, overall, FPS's have gone downhill since then.

 

[old.user4556]

QW DM kthxbye.

LOL I was looking for a post like this because I was thinking exactly the same .

 

[Shagrat]

It's disappointing how a fair few genre's have gone through the same shiny over gameplay slide over the last few years really

 

[Sparx]

i hate with a passion jumpers and jetpacks etc i prefer something more realism, on the flip side i hate sim racing games and love arcade

 

[old.user4556]

Oh and CS Beta 5 > *



Bring back jumping MP5 navy headshots and bunny hops

 

[throdgrain]

Strikes me that the people complaining about how newer games are arn't really playing them much or at all

I mean come on, Quake1. When was the last time you played that?

I bet if you guys look on your steam account it will tell us all how much time you spend on playing fps games. Assuming of course in fairness that you play via Steam.

Now I'm off work at the moment so my stats are a bit excessive, but according to steam I've played 58 hours in the last fortnight 27.2 of those hours were CSS. My mate Midi from TC has played 23.2 hours, Macey has played 29 hours and a bloke called Subliminal who used to be in our clan has played no less than 50 hours CSS in the same time.

So. When did you last play Quakeworld? A month ago? For half an hour?

It's not the same thing is it

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I think UT is still my all-time favourite FPS. From the time just before everyone became obsessed with graphics at the expense of gameplay, and people were creating (really good) maps by the bucketload.

UT was ace.

At the beginning, before it descended into a skill-less, spam fest with far too much reliance on the stupid teleporter.

I started primarily on UT, as an offline game as my connection was utter balls. Got pretty good at it, was a major contributer to the online scene (ran UTSystem with some people I know, did the news for it, did columns for it, interviewed Tim Sweeney, helped run the BW leagues, adminned - you name it) and was good for a while. The backend of the scene was so messy, you basically could be utter rubbish but learn lame tricks and overperform.

Moved more into Q3 at that time, although there was a crossover period when I played both a lot. Q3 was just better in every department, primarily the world physics. UT feels sluggish and lumpy, particularly when jumping around, but Q3 was fluid, fast, exciting and bloody hard.

I'm still playing QL to this day, and it's still utterly brilliant. This isn't something that could be done with UT. UT was great, but only at a moment in time. The years haven't been too kind with it, and the sequels dross.

I don't think I could ever get tired of Quake3/QL physics.

I don't play realistic shooters. I don't play any shooters that have classes, levelling systems or anything like that as online they're shit. Sorry, but it's true. I have no problems playing a FPS game with levelling in single player, as it serves a genuine gameplay purpose other than blindly sticking in some variety.

 

[Zenith.UK]

I miss Tribes 1 still

QW DM was truly ftw.
Tribes... my all-time favourite online team game.

I've got L4D but I only tend to pay it at LAN parties.
I've not played FPS games for a while. My Steam account shows that I've played a few casual games recently but I've not ran up 50 hours of gaming in the last 6 months, let alone the last week.

I played a beta version of CS and never looked at it again. It put me off war style FPS games for good. I've never played CoD, MoH, BF or any other "war" game franchise. I play games for escapism and fantasy but more importantly FUN. There are many more rage-quitters and moaning twonks in online games than there used to be.

To put it in context, the most recent game to catch my attention was Gran Turismo 5 which comes out in November.

 

[throdgrain]

So basically you dont play anything. Why are you on this gaming forum!?!?!?!??!

Wazz no doubt Q3 is the ultimate "pure" fps game, I play it a bit as you know, but its good to have lots of other games too. I think BC2 is a superb game, and CSS I do believe is the ultimate shooter.

I will play other games when they come out though. I used to know blokes that sneered at my Japanese bikes back in the 80's, they used to go on about how thier Bonneville was the best thing, only it was in the loft in the middle of a 4 year rebuild. So, in other words, they didnt ride a bike.

I suspect the same is true of some gamers

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Like Zenith, I don't like the realistic ones as they're just not fun enough.

If you can show me a multiplayer game as fluid and ace as QL that's reasonably new or newish and I'll try it, but as far as I'm aware, there's nothing else like it on the market.

 

[milou]

Beer v Snout - UT iCTF FatBoy mod and relics on a BW server - great and unsurpassed times. I'm with Wazz in liking an 'unrealistic' aspect to FPS.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Why did they have to overpower that stupid ASMD gun?

 

[cHodAX]

QW DM kthxbye.

Hell yes.

 

[throdgrain]

No point going on about games that no one plays though, otherwise it is dead.

 

[Scouse]

No point going on about games that no one plays though, otherwise it is dead.

I played Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142. Does the fact that not many people play them any more make them less valid as a gaming experience?

Two years down the line nobody'll be playing your current fave. Will that make it utter shit and a waste of time?


What I'm trying to say is - I liked the old games better. And it's not rose-tinted spectacles that make it that way...

 

[GReaper]

I'm getting rather bored of the realistic warfare FPS games myself as well. They just don't interest me in any way.

It's also annoying me that the vast majority of FPS games are mostly console based, developers are having to limit the ability of these games to the lowest common denominator. All too often we get the PC game as a port, sometimes months later. Then there's the utter disgusting behaviour of certain developers who just lock up their entire games, making it impossible to mod, create custom maps, or as with MW2 not even create dedicated servers.

At the moment I'm busy playing Shattered Horizon - not the greatest game but it's something fairly unique. I'm still playing Tribes quite regularly (Tribes will never die!), wanting to play Tribes 2 (sadly the European community is dead for it, so it's impossible to play), and waiting for the return of Fallen Empire: Legions (they took it down, grr).

Maybe I'm just a jetpack addict?

I'd just like to see other decent PC FPS games which offer something new instead of the same sequels or yet another realistic warfare shooter. Please let me know if there's some amazing game which I've missed out on!

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I can't play Crysis on this machine as it won't work so dunno what it's like, but Crysis 2 looks like it could be very sexy for single player. The new Deus Ex stuff is making me wet myself too.

See nothing on the horizon for good multiplayer FPS.

 

[StRaNgEdAyS]

The only game I play anymore is AHII though over the last 5 years it's become like a kind of aerial quake.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

See nothing on the horizon for good multiplayer FPS.

I've not really been keeping up to date on FPS so much as they don't hold my interest long enough so maybe a pinch of salt needed with what follows.

I've been getting the impression that most games are becoming console-focused, regardless of genre. The last few releases that I've seen where there's any kind of FPS in it seem to be console conversions that leave PC players very unsatisfied for one reason or another. The feedback I've seen indicates that most of these games feel clunky on PCs and even at best people are 'making do' with controls that are ok, but nothing awesome.

Thats an impression, not experience so I'm fine with being shot down if someone is having an awesome experience with the latest FPS type games.

 

[nath]

Bad Company 2 is very much a console port but still feels pretty decent actually. It's a lotta fun.