The Chinese are coming (apparently)

[CorNokZ]

Why would anyone want a 3rd World War? Surely that is in the past..

 

[Ctuchik]

However, if they did have a war the U.S would win, no doubt about it.

No they would both LOSE because nuclear warfare would be involved.

And in extension to that, we all lose...

Why would anyone want a 3rd World War? Surely that is in the past..

I don't want it, but i'm pretty sure it will happen.

Sooner or later someone with power will trip over the edge...

/edit:

On the note of nukes!

Active/total nukes

United States 1,950/8,500
Russia 2,430/11,000
United Kingdom 160/225
China 180/240

You don't think 180 nukes is enough?

Doesn't matter who got the most of them.

All it takes is a few....

 

[Job]

Well at the moment the US would win hands down, they control too much, they have so much weaponry, China wouldn't stand a chance, the Armies are irrelevant, the US would bomb their cities with nukes, the Chinese simply do not have the whereabouts to do it back.
the US still has up 8500 warheads, the Chinese 250 at the most.
The big issue of course is what the Russians would do.

If you don't think they would,remember they came a gnats balls close to nuking china into the stoneage after the 2nd world war.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well at the moment the US would win hands down, they control too much, they have so much weaponry, China wouldn't stand a chance, the Armies are irrelevant, the US would bomb their cities with nukes, the Chinese simply do not have the whereabouts to do it back.
the US still has up 8500 warheads, the Chinese 250 at the most.
The big issue of course is what the Russians would do.

If you don't think they would,remember they came a gnats balls close to nuking china into the stoneage after the 2nd world war.

They didn't really get anywhere close to nuking China; Macarthur wanted to, but no-one in power took him seriously.

America couldn't bomb China because they'd effectively be blowing up their own assets. Imagine the wailing from the Apple cultists.

 

[Wij]

Hang on. Are you saying China has a capitalistic market?

Deng Xioa Ping's reforms just passed you by then ?

Back on topic China and the US have no interest in a war with each other and it would seriously harm them both. China wants to take over the world economically and culturally, not militarily. The US is too worried about internal matters at the minute.

Not gonna happen.

 

[BloodOmen]

No they would both LOSE because nuclear warfare would be involved.

And in extension to that, we all lose...





I don't want it, but i'm pretty sure it will happen.

Sooner or later someone with power will trip over the edge...

/edit:



You don't think 180 nukes is enough?

Doesn't matter who got the most of them.

All it takes is a few....

I don't recall saying in my post that 180 wasn't enough, my point was all those mentioned in this thread has access to them and a hefty amount at that. 2 well placed nukes is more than enough to cripple a nation.

 

[Tuthmes]

Well it certainly isn't a communist one. The creation of the world's largest middle class is a fair indication they've left their communist principles at the door.

No ok, it's not a communist one stricktly speaking. But it's hardly an capitalistic market. They are in full control over their market and if it pleases them they will do what they want. Ie. you can play, but on their terms (communism with a twist perhaps?).

Deng Xioa Ping's reforms just passed you by then ?

No it didnt, but it makes me smile to hear people saying (or implying) that China has a free market

Anyways have a look at China's foreign policy. In the USA and in Europe they buy up every company thats bankrupt or strugling to stay out of it. Which is happening a lot atm ^^. That money will and does flow back into the Chinese economy with interest. But don't try to start a foreign company in China itself, cause thats nearly impossible.

China cant affort to have a true democraty nor a true capitalistic market. The country would fall apart and their leaders are fully aware of this.

As for world wars. If there will be one it will be over goods (oil, metals, etc, etc). Indeed China's and India's middle and upper class are booming. With about 1/2 of the world population settled there and their economies booming aswell, it doesnt take a genius to figure out something's got to give. But one can be optimistic and hope for the best. It's just a shame the collective mind has such a short memory and forget what wars really are.


P.s. Go easy on the typo's and grammar please.

 

[Wij]

Far closer to capitalism with despotism than soviet or maoist communism (which always ended up with despotism)

/edit: actually despotism isn't accurate for modern china. what's the word i'm thinking of... :/

 

[Tuthmes]

The PRC is regarded by several political scientists as one of the last five Communist states (along with Vietnam, North Korea, Laos, and Cuba), but simple characterizations of PRC's political structure since the 1980s are no longer possible. The PRC government has been variously described as communist and socialist, but also as authoritarian, with heavy restrictions remaining in many areas, most notably on the Internet, the press, freedom of assembly, reproductive rights, and freedom of religion.

Compared to its closed-door policies until the mid-1970s, the liberalization of the PRC has resulted in the administrative climate being less restrictive than before. The PRC is far different from liberal democracy or social democracy that exists in most of Europe or North America, and the National People's Congress (highest state body) has been described as a "rubber stamp" body. The PRC's incumbent President is Hu Jintao who is also the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China and his Premier is Wen Jiabao who is also a member of the CPC Politburo Standing Committee.

People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The state still dominates in strategic "pillar" industries (such as energy and heavy industries), but private enterprise (30 million private businesses) now accounts for anywhere between 33% (People's Daily 2005) to 70%

People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tuthmes]

As for nukes:

YouTube - ‪A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945 - by Isao Hashimoto‬‏

game on!

 

[Shagrat]

As for nukes:

YouTube - ‪A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945 - by Isao Hashimoto‬‏

game on!

christ thats more than i thought, thats a lot of "testing"

 

[BloodOmen]

wouldnt at all surprise me if the USA/China have weapons that make nukes look like a fart in the bath, who knows what they do on the sly/behind locked doors

 

[DaGaffer]

No ok, it's not a communist one stricktly speaking. But it's hardly an capitalistic market. They are in full control over their market and if it pleases them they will do what they want. Ie. you can play, but on their terms (communism with a twist perhaps?).

Depends on your definition of capitalism. No, its not a free market, but no country in the world has a truly free market, all you're arguing about is degree, not kind. China is no less capitalistic than say, Singapore.

No it didnt, but it makes me smile to hear people saying (or implying) that China has a free market

I don't think anyone said that. As I said, there's no such thing as the free market anyway.

Anyways have a look at China's foreign policy. In the USA and in Europe they buy up every company thats bankrupt or strugling to stay out of it. Which is happening a lot atm ^^. That money will and does flow back into the Chinese economy with interest. But don't try to start a foreign company in China itself, cause thats nearly impossible.

There are literally thousands of foreign companies in China; its not even that hard to set one up (takes about 40 days); the problem is the Chinese are trying to control foreign R&D by insisting the Chinese arm of a foreign businees conducts R&D in China, which given they have no respect for Intellectual Property, is a very bad thing.

China cant affort to have a true democraty nor a true capitalistic market. The country would fall apart and their leaders are fully aware of this.

As I said, there's no connection between capitalism and democracy. Japan is a bastion of Capitalism, but isn't our western idea of democratic. Not unlike quite a few Asian economies.

As for world wars. If there will be one it will be over goods (oil, metals, etc, etc). Indeed China's and India's middle and upper class are booming. With about 1/2 of the world population settled there and their economies booming aswell, it doesnt take a genius to figure out something's got to give. But one can be optimistic and hope for the best. It's just a shame the collective mind has such a short memory and forget what wars really are.


P.s. Go easy on the typo's and grammar please.

I'm not particularly worried about India, because they're a. militarily incompetent, and b. strategically hemmed in. The only resources India could go after are via Pakistan (their track record against Pakistan is not good) or China (also not good).

 

[Vasconcelos]

China will implode from within as soon as the chinese ppl start demanding human and labour rights.

Sooner than later imo.

 

[Tuthmes]

Depends on your definition of capitalism. No, its not a free market, but no country in the world has a truly free market, all you're arguing about is degree, not kind. China is no less capitalistic than say, Singapore.

Opening a statement with; "Depends on your definition." should always come with a troll face picture attached to it...

Capitalism is an economic system structured upon the accumulation of capital in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, usually in competitive markets.

There is no consensus on the precise definition of capitalism, nor on how the term should be used as an historical category. There is, however, little controversy that private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit in a market, and prices and wages are elements of capitalism.

Economists, political economists and historians have taken different perspectives on the analysis of capitalism. Economists usually emphasize the degree that government does not have control over markets (laissez faire), and on property rights. Most political economists emphasize private property, power relations, wage labor, class and emphasize capitalism as a unique historical formation.

Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then read through these:

People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By my standards (and some others...) China's economy fails to fall into this catagory.

I don't think anyone said that. As I said, there's no such thing as the free market anyway.

Deng Xioa Ping's reforms just passed you by then ?

There are literally thousands of foreign companies in China; its not even that hard to set one up (takes about 40 days); the problem is the Chinese are trying to control foreign R&D by insisting the Chinese arm of a foreign businees conducts R&D in China, which given they have no respect for Intellectual Property, is a very bad thing.

Do me a favour and google; foreign companies in China. Also watch the news from time to time. I'm sure you can setup your local <insert small company/store> but even then they will be watching what you are selling.

There is a slight difference in setting up a company in the USA or Britain and one in China or Cuba.

As I said, there's no connection between capitalism and democracy. Japan is a bastion of Capitalism, but isn't our western idea of democratic. Not unlike quite a few Asian economies.

The relationship between democracy and capitalism is a contentious area in theory and popular political movements. The extension of universal adult male suffrage in 19th century Britain occurred along with the development of industrial capitalism, and democracy became widespread at the same time as capitalism, leading many theorists to posit a causal relationship between them, or that each affects the other. However, in the 20th century, according to some authors, capitalism also accompanied a variety of political formations quite distinct from liberal democracies, including fascist regimes, monarchies, and single-party states

Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not hard to see that capitalism (free market) needs some form of freedom (democracy) to be able to function.

Anyways, by now i'm sure you'll be saying that wikipedia is unreliable as a source.

I'm not particularly worried about India, because they're a. militarily incompetent, and b. strategically hemmed in. The only resources India could go after are via Pakistan (their track record against Pakistan is not good) or China (also not good).

If you don't have resources your are bound to look for some or die trying.

And now i'm bored of argueing over arguments.

 

[Punishment]

As for nukes:

YouTube - ‪A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945 - by Isao Hashimoto‬&rlm;

game on!

Fuck me

 

[Tuthmes]

Ahh what China has is called State capitalism. I can already hear DeGaffer yelling; "uc it's a form of capitalism!" But it's not.

 

[Embattle]

China technically fits into neither camp that well, and both systems such nuts either way and as I stated earlier people are over playing China.

 

[DaGaffer]

Opening a statement with; "Depends on your definition." should always come with a troll face picture attached to it...
Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then read through these:

By my standards (and some others...) China's economy fails to fall into this catagory.

Fortunately, your standards don't mean shit. You said yourself in an earlier post, up to 70% of China's income comes from private enterprise.

Do me a favour and google; foreign companies in China. Also watch the news from time to time. I'm sure you can setup your local <insert small company/store> but even then they will be watching what you are selling.

There is a slight difference in setting up a company in the USA or Britain and one in China or Cuba.

Do me a favour and stop being so patronising. You don't think the Americans or British watch what foreign companies do inside their borders? I find it ironic that a lot of American corporations are getting their panties in a bunch over technology transfer and state interference when this is exactly what large parts of corporate America already do and have done for decades, particularly in the defence sector, where you simply won't get the business if you don't give an American "lead contractor" the primary business and tehnology transfer. Once again, the Chinese only differ in degree, not kind.

And by the way, China is very different to Cuba; and of the four remaining "communist" countries, I'd argue none of them are really communist anymore, but Cuba is probably the closest to the communist stereotype.

Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not hard to see that capitalism (free market) needs some form of freedom (democracy) to be able to function.

Anyways, by now i'm sure you'll be saying that wikipedia is unreliable as a source.

As the article itself said, many political theorists have posited a causal link between capitalism and democracy; doesn't mean they're right though. Take the Gulf States, all the trappings of capitalism, next to none of the trappings of democracy. There simply isn't a line you can draw in the sand and say capitalist/not capitalist, or democratic/not democratic.

If you don't have resources your are bound to look for some or die trying.

And now i'm bored of argueing over arguments.

In India's case I'd say "die trying" is a fairly safe bet.

 

[Wij]

India has abundant code-houses

 

[Tuthmes]

Fortunately, your standards don't mean shit. You said yourself in an earlier post, up to 70% of China's income comes from private enterprise.

anywhere between 33% (People's Daily 2005) to 70%.

That's quite a large margin. But still nowhere near 100%. Also there are differences (in degree) when it comes to beeing a private company.

Do me a favour and stop being so patronising. You don't think the Americans or British watch what foreign companies do inside their borders? I find it ironic that a lot of American corporations are getting their panties in a bunch over technology transfer and state interference when this is exactly what large parts of corporate America already do and have done for decades, particularly in the defence sector, where you simply won't get the business if you don't give an American "lead contractor" the primary business and tehnology transfer. Once again, the Chinese only differ in degree, not kind.

You can differ in such a degree that you are speaking of a different kind.

And by the way, China is very different to Cuba; and of the four remaining "communist" countries, I'd argue none of them are really communist anymore, but Cuba is probably the closest to the communist stereotype.

Nobody said China and Cuba are exacly alike...

Also Communism in it's form can differ in degree, not kind (we still call it communism) .

As the article itself said, many political theorists have posited a causal link between capitalism and democracy; doesn't mean they're right though. Take the Gulf States, all the trappings of capitalism, next to none of the trappings of democracy. There simply isn't a line you can draw in the sand and say capitalist/not capitalist, or democratic/not democratic.

Yes you could argue against many political theorists.

Etc, etc.

 

[Wij]

Do me a favour and google; foreign companies in China. Also watch the news from time to time. I'm sure you can setup your local <insert small company/store> but even then they will be watching what you are selling.

If China was still a communist country and anyone tried to set up a business they would be executed as kulaks.

 

[Tuthmes]

It's true Wij. It's not the same country as it whas under Mao. But it isnt exactly a democracy nor does it have a free market.

 

[Wij]

You might argue that it isn't a true capitalist country certainly but it certainly is not a communist one. End of discussion please

 

[Tuthmes]

certainly is not a communist one

It most certainly is, just with a (capitalistic) twist.


But yes lets end this bs.

 

[Raven]

Fear the tactical shovel!

YouTube - ‪Chinese Military Shovel WJQ-308 (HQ + Full length)‬&rlm;

 

[Access Denied]

Fear the tactical shovel!

YouTube - ‪Chinese Military Shovel WJQ-308 (HQ + Full length)‬&rlm;

I wonder if they have "Made in China" stamped on them...

As for nukes:

YouTube - ‪A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945 - by Isao Hashimoto‬&rlm;

game on!

That can't be true, surely. It would have made large parts of the worls land mass completely uninhabitable.

 

[Shagrat]

Well we know who to blame for global warming, damn nuts playing with their bikes

 

[Punishment]

Most of those nukes were let off underground

 

[Punishment]

Fear the tactical shovel!

YouTube - ‪Chinese Military Shovel WJQ-308 (HQ + Full length)‬&rlm;

That shovel is smarter than most people i know