Football The 2020/2021 Season Thread

[Aoami]

@Jupitus - VAR, and what happens next.

We'll implement a system where coaches can call on VAR if there's something they disagree with. Maybe 3 times a game each. So six interruptions.

That way the advertising men will get to keep their incredible money earning interruptions to a previously fast flowing uninterrupted game (which is what VAR is really all about) and the fans who are rapidly falling out of love with the game will go "thank you, thank you! for not completely fucking our game up! We'll accept a lesser standard of game, which is clearly loads better than full VAR".

But football will still be diminished. For money.


(Above is my prediction, nowhere have I seen this. But remember when the yanks wanted to split football into quarters like American Football? That was really pushed hard. For money).

I don't see it, certainly not in the near future. This is essentially the NFL model, and it fits in well with the American TV and advertising model. The US market is not worth much to the Premier League as it stands - what they pay for TV rights pales in insignificance to the UK market, so there won't be the appetite for it until that dynamic changes, and I'm not convinced it ever will. No matter how much FIFA try, "soccer" will be a niche sport in the USA for a long time.

 

[Jupitus]

I don't see it, certainly not in the near future. This is essentially the NFL model, and it fits in well with the American TV and advertising model. The US market is not worth much to the Premier League as it stands - what they pay for TV rights pales in insignificance to the UK market, so there won't be the appetite for it until that dynamic changes, and I'm not convinced it ever will. No matter how much FIFA try, "soccer" will be a niche sport in the USA for a long time.

I would actually liken it to the decision review system found in cricket to avoid umpiring errors... that has a refinement whereby if the review holds up the claimant's argument, then the review count does not decrease for them, so you can have more than x challenges but not frivolous, unfounded ones.

 

[caLLous]

They will and you're a fool if you don't think the most valuable advertising space on the planet isn't ripe for it.

Football was never broken. It is the most successful sport on the planet.

But an opportunity exists to make billions of dollars, so...



I was best man for a guy who runs an advertising company. He's a villa fan. He thinks it's going to be shit (but lucrative) and his mind boggles how dumb the public is that they can't see this clear and obvious pitch to fuck over their game for money.

Make the argument about "fairness" or some shit like that and the world will look the other way. But it's all about monetising two 45 minute blocks of uninterrupted advertising possibilities - through the artificial insertion of interruptions that you can do something with.

That article is 18 months old and I remember advertising being one of your principle fears about VAR and yet... where are the adverts? You're talking like they'd cut to an actual commercial break, that article is about slapping some branding in the corner of the screen while they pause to make decisions. There's already innocuous advertising embedded all over sport - sponsorship attached to man of the match awards, "extra time brought to you by x" on US football streams, the review system in cricket or all the times AWS gets a mention in the F1 - they don't prolong the action to fit the advert in, it's just a bit of branding with a car trundling across the bottom of the screen or whatever.

Anyway, FIFA said they were looking at it but UEFA said they weren't interested and the Premier League have said "it was too early to consider such a plan as it was focused on simply making the system operate well" and as we can all agree they haven't achieved that yet so nothing to worry about.

 

[Scouse]

"it was too early to consider such a plan as it was focused on simply making the system operate well"

If I was going to FTFY - that means: "Later"

But hey, if you're comfortable with even more branding being pushed in front of your eyeballs for no other reason than to have more branding, then that's peachy by me.

 

[Scouse]

I would actually liken it to the decision review system found in cricket to avoid umpiring errors... that has a refinement whereby if the review holds up the claimant's argument, then the review count does not decrease for them, so you can have more than x challenges but not frivolous, unfounded ones.

I could potentially get behind one where reviews do decrease. Because they're all interruptions - right or wrong - so they need to be minimised.

I'm happy that they get things wrong. It's never dampened the entire planet's enthusiasm for football. VAR was sold on the fact that it would fix this "non-problem" - and it never can because: too many subjective decisions. So why not leave it to the refs? (Oh. Yes. We know why).

But I'll still die a little inside when/if they do it. I'll just die a lot less inside than I'm doing over football now.

 

[Aoami]

Football has been on Sky for nearly 30 years now, and the advertising level has not really changed. I think now there is the extra small break before kick-off in the bigger games that they never used to have. IMO, if it was such a great advertising opportunity it would've been done years ago, and VAR won't have an impact on that.

 

[Moriath]

Football has been on Sky for nearly 30 years now, and the advertising level has not really changed. I think now there is the extra small break before kick-off in the bigger games that they never used to have. IMO, if it was such a great advertising opportunity it would've been done years ago, and VAR won't have an impact on that.

There really are not that many people that watch live football on sky. I mean its hundreds of thousands but not the millions that get to see it on the beeb for example.

if they put it free to air the ad revenue if on a non beeb site would be much bigger.

 

[Scouse]

Football has been on Sky for nearly 30 years now, and the advertising level has not really changed. I think now there is the extra small break before kick-off in the bigger games that they never used to have. IMO, if it was such a great advertising opportunity it would've been done years ago, and VAR won't have an impact on that.

You're not following @Aoami old bean.

The interruptions caused by VAR open up a new advertising opportunity that wasn't there before.

 

[Aoami]

You're not following @Aoami old bean.

The interruptions caused by VAR open up a new advertising opportunity that wasn't there before.

I am following. I'm saying that these opportunities would've been manufactured already if someone felt there was good money to be made.

 

[Scouse]

I am following. I'm saying that these opportunities would've been manufactured already if someone felt there was good money to be made.

How? What justification do you have for interrupting the game? VAR is that play.

I don't think you understand the level of resistence to video ref technology there's been in football historically.

It's a relatively new development but the ad industry has been calling for it for years (along with the yanks wanting to split it into four - which was seriously considered - game of two halfs? Not if some people have a choice).

They've had to rely on "other sports" adopting it first before they've been able to shoehorn it in to footie.

 

[Gwadien]

@Scouse you said a very long time ago that when VAR was first going to be introduced there would be a massive increase in advertisement.

There hasn't been.

If there were such an opportunity then they would have dived on it immediately, but it hasn't happened.

Stop saying 'You're not following' or 'You don't understand' when people clearly do understand what you mean, but they disagree with you.

Essentially, the only way that @Aoami will 'follow' or 'understand' is if he agrees with you, right?

 

[Aoami]

It's not something i've ever heard of, and I work with lots of agencies who buy sports ad space. In fact one my main clients was one the key sponsors of the football league and had ident space, and never heard it mentioned there. I'd be interested to know more though if you've got any links.

 

[Scouse]

@Scouse you said a very long time ago that when VAR was first going to be introduced there would be a massive increase in advertisement

No I didn't. I said that is what would happen. And it will.

Football's been around for a fucking long time. Do you think they're going to implement VAR (shockingly poorly, even for this shit game-breaking tech) then slap adverts straight on in?

Regardless. It's a shitshow. VAR pretty much breaks the game. You break immediacy, you dehumanise and break the game.

Well worth it for not actually solving the problems VAR promised to solve eh?


It's had long enough to prove itself. And it's failed.

 

[Scouse]

it's a mind-numbingly life-sapping experience waiting for this dubious technology to quash our enjoyment

*cough*. Discuss?

 

[Gwadien]

then slap adverts straight on in?

Yes.

Because football has been primarily a business for a very long time, and unfortunately, the opinions of the people that want to make money (Ie the people that own the clubs) is way more important than the point of view of the fans.

Would you stop watching football if they introduced advertisement during VAR or if they refuse to remove VAR?

 

[Scouse]

Yes.

Because football has been primarily a business for a very long time, and unfortunately, the opinions of the people that want to make money (Ie the people that own the clubs) is way more important than the point of view of the fans.

Don't be silly - that's not the way to introduce anything. They're not blindly haphazard with their business - they want people to keep watching and keep paying.

Be realistic.

Would you stop watching football if they introduced advertisement during VAR or if they refuse to remove VAR?

I'm already watching less. Finishing matches less. I'll never stop completely - but every single match is tinged with sadness at what we've lost - and that's not something I like to feel.

The level of enjoyment football provides me is being eroded. Whereas I watched it religiously for 45 years of my life, since the introduction of VAR I find it a bit shit, so it doesn't grab and hold my attention in the steel vice it once did. I find it farcical, childish and fucking pointless much of the time. Let the referee decide and for better or worse let the game move on - VAR doesn't solve the problems anyway.

Like Linekar said: VAR is a mind-numbingly life-sapping way of quashing my enjoyment.


I don't think he's understating that at all.

 

[Gwadien]

Don't be silly - that's not the way to introduce anything. They're not blindly haphazard with their business - they want people to keep watching and keep paying.

I mean

I'm already watching less. Finishing matches less. I'll never stop completely - but every single match is tinged with sadness at what we've lost - and that's not something I like to feel.

Here's Scouse who's massively opposed to VAR, but he's already admitted that he wouldn't completely stop watching it, so therefore it's a good business decision by the owners of football teams...

 

[Scouse]

Lets turn this around @Gwadien, instead of me answering all the questions:

it's a mind-numbingly life-sapping experience waiting for this dubious technology to quash our enjoyment

Do you think Gary's going to stop watching football? Or commentating on the matches? Give up his job?

He loves the sport. And countless abused women the world over stay with their wanker husbands for love. So you don't give up the thing you love when there's no alternative, do you?

 

[Raven]

@Job anything to add?

 

[Scouse]

Funny given my Gary Linkear argument above:

Here's Scouse who's massively opposed to VAR, but he's already admitted that he wouldn't completely stop watching it, so therefore it's a good business decision by the owners of football teams...

You're anti-Tory, but you'll suck business dick completely when it comes to our sport? Use business justification (money) as a reason for lessening the enjoyment of huge swathes of fans?

I've made this very argument myself @Gwadien - that if it makes them more profit, then they won't care if it ruins football for fans - in the cold hard business world, money is king.

If you're OK with that being applied to football - then what kind of person are you.

 

[Aoami]

There are alternatives. I go to and support a lot more grass roots football these days, because I started falling out of love with the money league years ago. I'm off to Dulwich Hamlet tonight (finally!) in fact. Ironically, i've been drawn back in to the PL over the last couple of years - which may or may not be due to an upturn in Southampton's fortunes.

if you don't like the money men, take your business elsewhere. Loads of lower league clubs around Liverpool where VAR is a non-issue, and money much less of one. Cheap tickets, and you can have a beer in the stands as well.

 

[Scouse]

Thanks for the "just stop watching the team you've supported all your life and fuck off" argument there @Aoami.

 

[Aoami]

Thanks for the "just stop watching the team you've supported all your life" and fuck off argument there @Aoami.

Meh. I've never been a great football TV watcher, I don't get much out of it. It's all about going to the games for me. I still probably average going to about 10 Saints games a season, when money and time allows. Lower league football gives me the same enjoyment, cos at the end of day, it's football without all the fuss you seem to hate.

Football as you know and love it is gone. That's nothing to do with VAR. It went years ago.

 

[Raven]

Those that are genuinely disillusioned with top flight football should look more local. You don't get VAR at Sixfields.

The lower leagues are getting crushed atm, that is where football really needs fixing.

 

[Scouse]

Fact is @Gwadien, @Aoami, @caLLous - you guys are in the minority.

Why should we keep the thing that more people hate? How do you justify that?

 

[Aoami]

The majority of people hate how much money there is in football, how much players get paid, how much a shirt costs, how much a ticket costs, how much a pint costs at a ground, how much a sky & bt subscription costs, how much debt clubs are in etc etc. In some utopian football world, we'd get rid of all those as well. Ain't gonna happen though, cos the Premier League is so far removed from sport, and into business. To me, it's ironic that you can be such a passionate Liverpool fan, just another team who bought the premier league through massive transfer and wage spend, and yet be so upset by VAR "killing the game". You want your cake, and you want to eat it too.

I'm one of the few fans of the European Super League idea. I'd love all the money brands like Liverpool, Chelsea, City with their legions of fans worldwide to fuck off to their own league quite frankly, and some normality might be restored in English football.

Come to the lower leagues, we ain't going anywhere (yet).

 

[Scouse]

Those that are genuinely disillusioned with top flight football should look more local. You don't get VAR at Sixfields.

It's hugely dismissive to say "don't fight against the thing ruining the game you've loved for your entire life, the team you've supported your entire life" - especially when more people dislike it than like it.

That argument is "just go and play golf instead".

I support Liverpool. I enjoy the game, but part of my enjoyment of the game is wrapped up in the team I support and the family and friends I support Liverpool with. At the matches, on the TV. Christmas in half of our family revolves around the sporting calendar and it's been that way since even before I was born.


But just ditch it, right? Lets get a sense of persepective here.

VAR is shit. The fans, the players, the managers and the pundits - the majority of them think it's shit. That's not an argument any more. Dems teh factz.

 

[Scouse]

The majority of people hate how much money there is in football, how much players get paid, how much a shirt costs, how much a ticket costs, how much a pint costs at a ground, how much a sky & bt subscription costs, how much debt clubs are in etc etc. In some utopian football world, we'd get rid of all those as well. Ain't gonna happen though, cos the Premier League is so far removed from sport, and into business. To me, it's ironic that you can be such a passionate Liverpool fan, just another team who bought the premier league through massive transfer and wage spend, and yet be so upset by VAR "killing the game".

I've posted against money lots of times and I absolutely agree with you. The league would be much better, much healthier, if the poorer clubs had a shot. That's why Leicester as so popular a winner - everyone thought it was brilliant up and down the country (apart from maybe Derby fans).

However, money doesn't fundamentally change what happens on the pitch - it influences who wins, absolutely (look at City and Chelski) but it doesn't change the basic nature of the game.

VAR does.


How many times do I have to make the same arguments? Can people not hold previous answers in their heads or something?

 

[Aoami]

Money does fundamentally change what happens on the pitch if you're not a big club. If it didn't, i'd be watching Sadio Mane and VVD every week, instead of Jan Bednarek and Moussa Djenepo

 

[Scouse]

it's a mind-numbingly life-sapping experience waiting for this dubious technology to quash our enjoyment

*cough* - anyone got anything to say to Gary about that? Or Carragher, who's admitted he made a mistake in supporting VAR and wants some form of rollback. Or any of the other myriad players or managers who've said it's ruining their love of the game?


What does VAR give you that you love so much it's worth alienating such a big proportion of the football family?