Football The 2012 / 2013 Season Thread

[Raven]

Like it or not, football is about money first, fans second.

Decisions that are worth 10s of millions of pounds rest on three men's decision, who don't always get a good view of the ball. Players in the way, play moved up the field too quickly for them etc

That is why it will be implemented, not because fans get fed up with bad referee decisions.

I actually think it will be a good thing on the whole.

 

[Aoami]

Say last day of the season saints have goal wrongly disallowed and we end up relegated because we only got 1 point instead of 3. Hypothetical obviously, but I think I'd struggle to see the funny side.

 

[cHodAX]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/1205602/chaos-reigns-at-stamford-bridge?cc=5739

A great breakdown of yesterdays game and finally someone in the media sees exactly what I have been saying about United for 3 years or more...

As Shakhtar Donetsk's Fernandinho indicated on Tuesday and as Di Matteo himself all but admitted on Friday, Chelsea's main problem is that they may be very quick to counter-attack but are worryingly slow to re-organise. When they have the ball, for example, the two centre-halves often go very wide in order to play it out. The big issue with that is, unlike say Sergio Busquets at Barcelona, no midfielder properly drops back in order to fill the gap. Here, John Obi Mikel often looked 20 yards more advanced than he should have been.

It's an issue they're going to have to solve. On Sunday, at the least, a reprieve came in the fact United have a very similar issue.

Although Michael Carrick is positionally excellent and frequently showed Chelsea how their defensive formation should have looked, he doesn't have the presence to make it properly count. Too many times, a challenge was too weak or a move bypassed him. A telling example came when he appeared to win the ball of Eden Hazard only for the Belgian playmaker to show greater strength and come out on top.

Carrick does fine against technically average players of any size but he struggles against stronger players no matter the skill level and small technical players just run him ragged. He isn't brave into the tackle, often resulting in half hearted challenges that the opponent rides or gains a free kick from. At his age he isn't going to change and Fergie needs to be rid, we pass the ball well enough without him but his contribution on the defensive side at times is zero.

 

[Scouse]

I think all the people who say "Oh but it takes out the human error side of things which is part of the game" are fucking spastics.

You've still not answered my question, I noticed. You don't think we'll lose anything (beach balls?/maradonna?)

I actually agree with Raven above - it's not the fans who are demanding it and it's about money - and that's a shit reason to change the game.

Say last day of the season saints have goal wrongly disallowed and we end up relegated because we only got 1 point instead of 3. Hypothetical obviously, but I think I'd struggle to see the funny side.

If you get relegated because of a single disallowed goal then it's your team's fault because they did shit for the rest of the season. Pointing at a single goal means you're searching for excuses for your own shitness - you're looking at the wrong thing.

Lots of teams have disallowed goals. It's part of the game.

Imagine most of fans delight if Liverpool or Man U were to be relegated because of a disallowed goal.

It'd be fucking epic. It would be talked about for decades. And the whines of the mega-rich owners complaining about how much cash it cost them and "we need video replays" would be the icing on the cake.

 

[cHodAX]

In the 2008 study, Tackling Diving: The Perception of Deceptive Intentions in Association football, a dive was deemed to have the following traits: 1. a separation in time between the impact and the simulation, 2. a lack of ballistic continuity (the player moves further than would be expected from the momentum of the tackle) and 3. lack of contact consistency (the player nurses a body part other than where the impact occurred, such as contact to the chest causing the player to fly to the ground, holding his face). Torres was guilty of all three.

He over egged it and got caught, there was contact but the theatrics cost him. Oh and as I said before he should have seen a straight red for the high and studs out challenge on Cleverly. Chelsea fans definately have a rock solid case on the third goal but that was the only real mistake made against them.

 

[eksdee]

Evans' challenge was studs up and made contact. If you're going to go down the line of quoting the rules to use semantics to make a point, Evans should have been sent off.

 

[Himse]

Surprise suprise.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/football/torres-deserved-to-go-says-ferguson

 

[Raven]

woop. top of the table on the fantasy football.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

 

[rynnor]

The real problem with football reffing is that many infractions are not enforced and thus enforcement is patchy and inconsistent. There are also major differences between reffing enforcement at international and various domestic leagues.

Realistically the only solution is to enforce to the letter of the law - it would probably end certain players careers but its the only way to achieve any consistent reffing.

 

[Scouse]

Or we could just accept that refs are inconsistent?

It's been working as it is for a long long time. Only the diving side of it is getting worse IMO - and that's easily rectified retrospectively.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Fernando Torres' yellow was Chelsea's 4th card for diving this season. Rest of the league has combined for 6.

 

[rynnor]

Or we could just accept that refs are inconsistent?

It's been working as it is for a long long time. Only the diving side of it is getting worse IMO - and that's easily rectified retrospectively.

I dont think it is working and retrospective fines/bans are useless because the game has already been impacted by them and the result remains the same.

 

[Calaen]

Evans' challenge was studs up and made contact. If you're going to go down the line of quoting the rules to use semantics to make a point, Evans should have been sent off.

Torress shouldn't have been present for the tackle as he had studs up at chest height

 

[Calaen]

You've still not answered my question, I noticed. You don't think we'll lose anything (beach balls?/maradonna?)

I actually agree with Raven above - it's not the fans who are demanding it and it's about money - and that's a shit reason to change the game.




If you get relegated because of a single disallowed goal then it's your team's fault because they did shit for the rest of the season. Pointing at a single goal means you're searching for excuses for your own shitness - you're looking at the wrong thing.

Lots of teams have disallowed goals. It's part of the game.

Imagine most of fans delight if Liverpool or Man U were to be relegated because of a disallowed goal.

It'd be fucking epic. It would be talked about for decades. And the whines of the mega-rich owners complaining about how much cash it cost them and "we need video replays" would be the icing on the cake.

I'm with you 100%.

I'd much rather the FA/FIFA dealt with the diving and trying to con the ref after games. As for the disallowed goals, it's all part of the game, and as Scouse mentions above, if you get relegated on he last game of the season because of that one goal, it's your own fault. If you remove part of the soul of the game, there becomes nothing for people to talk about on Monday morning anymore, nothing for the press to write about. In other words fuck all but waiting for the game the week after.

I watched the Liverpool game, and I was gutted for 4 seconds when I thought Liverpool had snatched it, when I realised it should have stood I was doubly happy! I remeber a few times down the years, Everton having nailed on penalties denied late in games.

There won't be any historical moments anymore, just results and titles.

 

[Aoami]

Why would it be our fault if we got relegated when technically we had done enough to stay up but for a bad decision? That doesnt make sense to me.

 

[Calaen]

A team that goes down on the last game of the season due to one goal only has themselves to blame. You've got 35 games before the last one to stop you from being relegated.

 

[Everz]

A team that goes down on the last game of the season due to one goal only has themselves to blame. You've got 35 games before the last one to stop you from being relegated.

Really? No it's not because what if it was like two seasons prior where on the last day that anyone out of 5 teams could have gone down, and a poor referee decision meant that one team faced the drop?

How is that fair? Especially considering it took a record points total to stay up that season.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

37 games.

Unless of course teams have dropped out the league altogether this year

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Arsenal have the best defensive record in the league.

Just a shame we can't score for shit.

 

[Marc]

Say last day of the season saints have goal wrongly disallowed and we end up relegated because we only got 1 point instead of 3. Hypothetical obviously, but I think I'd struggle to see the funny side.

Happened to Bolton years ago. Had a goal disallowed that was about 6 inches over the line and if it had been given they would have stayed up, but it wasnt given and they went down.

 

[Calaen]

Happened to Bolton years ago. Had a goal disallowed that was about 6 inches over the line and if it had been given they would have stayed up, but it wasnt given and they went down.

Yup

 

[Calaen]

Really? No it's not because what if it was like two seasons prior where on the last day that anyone out of 5 teams could have gone down, and a poor referee decision meant that one team faced the drop?

How is that fair? Especially considering it took a record points total to stay up that season.

Really, because quiet simply put all 5 of those teams were fucking horrible and all of them would have deserved to go down after the season they all had.

when you've had 6 goals disallowed in a row costing you 18 points you might have a case, but most teams will have a dodgy decision going for them or against them over the course of the season.

 

[Everz]

Really, because quiet simply put all 5 of those teams were fucking horrible and all of them would have deserved to go down after the season they all had.

when you've had 6 goals disallowed in a row costing you 18 points you might have a case, but most teams will have a dodgy decision going for them or against them over the course of the season.

Bullshit noting that the total to stay up was the highest ever, so how could those teams have been fucking horrible... also despite the fact in our season we'd beaten all of the top sides bar Arsenal (who got lucky).

That aside a game should not be decided on human error, the game should be fair and equal.

Happened to Bolton years ago. Had a goal disallowed that was about 6 inches over the line and if it had been given they would have stayed up, but it wasnt given and they went down.

Oh how there fans must have loled at that one eh?

 

[Scouse]

I dont think it is working and retrospective fines/bans are useless because the game has already been impacted by them and the result remains the same.

I think it'd sort the diving out - which is the only part that's really causing massive problems (and, again, that's a cultural problem more than anything - all other cultures think it's fine - us pesky brits do hate it though).

If players start getting retrospectively booked for obvious dives (without contact) that'll soon stop. As will violent conduct that was "missed" by the ref.

As for results remaining the same - it's been fine since the football league started - why the need to rush in fixes now.

Remember: Liverpool 0 - 1 Beach-Ball = GOOD thing

There won't be any historical moments anymore, just results and titles.

This.

No matter how much SKY want it...

 

[Scouse]

How is that fair?

It's fair because the same shit applies *equally* and to *all teams*.

We all get the same amount of games. We all get the same chance of a bad refereeing decision.

If you can't ensure your team's security before the last game then you've got as good a chance as the rest of going down.

It's fair, it's human and it gives people something to debate.

 

[Calaen]

Bullshit noting that the total to stay up was the highest ever, so how could those teams have been fucking horrible... also despite the fact in our season we'd beaten all of the top sides bar Arsenal (who got lucky).

That aside a game should not be decided on human error, the game should be fair and equal.

How high the total was is irrelevant, the 5 teams were all as bad as each other. Every team has the same chance over the 30 odd games to get good and bad decisions.

The game is as fair and equal as the referee on the day. I'd rather watch football as it is now and complain about the diving and decisions than change it. Fact is the authorities could make a massive stand against the players retrospectively and it would cut down on the incidents during the match.

This in turn would allow the referees just to get on with the game and focus on the decisions, rather than if Suarez/Young are trying to con him.

 

[cHodAX]

Evans' challenge was studs up and made contact. If you're going to go down the line of quoting the rules to use semantics to make a point, Evans should have been sent off.

Studs up is considered vertical and that is a good 15+ degrees from being vertical. Also if you watch the video it is quite clear to see that Evans was playing the ball and not the man but Torres deft touch pushed the ball fowards after Evans had already commited to the tackle.

 

[cHodAX]

Arsenal have the best defensive record in the league.

Just a shame we can't score for shit.

Refer to my post about your striker signings at the begining of the season. There is not enough depth nor killer instinct, you sold that to us!

 

[cHodAX]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/s...tigate-clattenburg-racism-allegations?cc=5739

lol I hope this is not true.