Football The 2011/2012 Season Thread

[Aoami]

Sweden tomorrow night will be a good measure of where England are. I watched Denmark beat them comfortably on Saturday and they looked a shadow of the side that continuously gave England problems in the 00s. Anything less than a comfortable 2-0 win and we have something to worry about.

 

[Everz]

Here we go with the insults again, shows you are angry in real life, take a break perhaps and stop commenting?

And no, we are still on the same level as Germany, but we won't be in a few years if we continue to say "why the fuck should we try and actually PLAY against teams better than us, let's just be a bunch of fucking idiots and sit in our box for 90% of the match and 9/10 times get smashed either way".. negative tactics breed negative players.

Maybe in FM Germany are light years ahead of us, but not in the oh so glorious real life.

We are nowhere fucking near Germany, don't backtrack on yourself by firstly saying we are shit then saying we are on the same damn level as Germany.

I'll say it once, and I'll say it again, we aren't going to breed success in a year, we aren't going to have the same coach in a year ffs, so there is no point going out to start this new wave of attacking tactics when there is an incoming change, we are best to stick with what we have got and try and gain something from there, change coming after the Euros.

Do you even has a minor understand of how long the Germany project took? It was set in motion after the 2002 WC finals, that is a 10 year process which has lead them to where they are now, 10 years of training players up from a young age so they come as one. Theres no doubt the work needs to be done, but it needs to begin at the u-16 level if we are ever going to see this 'purist football'.

4-1 Germany sort of says how far ahead of us they are. How many world class players do we have?.. Rooney, perhaps Gerrard? Germany arguably have a decent 6-7 (Ozil, Schweinstiger, Neuer, Gomez, Lahm, Muller and Podolski imo), with some of greatest players of potential out there (Gotze, Schurrle, Kroos, Bender twins, Reus, Hummels etc). We need years of development to be on there level. We are on the same level as Italy, doing the best with what we have got.

We have potential but with a coach change imminient and a change of the old guard being remove we have to do what is needed to win. There is such thing as negative tactics, It's only in the last 4-5 years this idea of 'how football should be played' came about. There are tactics to win and thats it.

Whoa dude, what got in your panties? I say England played like shit, just like the rest of the guys on the forum, and you're slagging me for it? Your game against Spain wasn't well played, it wasn't pretty, but it was effective. The last few games I've seen England play haven't been entertaining, besides the Montenegro one, but that wasn't due to your great offensive or defensive skills on the pitch.

Also wtf with getting bitchy about me having a go at Wolves? You called the danish league a tinpot league, whatever the fuck that means, and I threw it back at you and you get cross? Get over yourself mate and grow the fuck up. All of your 19 years are really showing

If you think your passion for Wolves is greater than my passion for Copenhagen I am sorry to inform you that you could not be more wrong. I love my club and would go to every game possible, regardless of whether we were dominating the league, in the relegation battle or in a lower league.

No.. your stating because the football you play is perceived to be more entertaining that automatically means you are better, which is bullshit. Entertainment doesn't secure results and this you should know, you can play all the beautiful tippy tappy you want in the world but if it doesn't stick the ball in the back of the net, it is woefully pointless. How many trophies have Arsenal won with there beautiful football eh?

As for the Wolves comment, see Ileks. Not having a go but you've come across as irritating with just one liners without any coherant reasoning.

They had the same debate on Talk Sport tonight but I had to switch it off, listening to Adrian Durham constantly say yeah but we won 1-0, without actually giving any valid reasons why made me rage and turn it off

There was a split between the listeners also similar to that here, although the people messaging in, in favour of the win spoiled their reasons by adding we are going to win the euros, and we are now the best team in the world.

I agree with Everz about Germany, but it's not because they have 11 better players than us, it's because they have a system in place at a younger level and when they graduate into the full squad they already know their role. @ England we spend far too much time worrying about how the other team is going to play and what we have to do to stop them.

I'm not saying we are going to win the Euros, god no, but it's infuriating that people refuse to take any form of positives out of it, instead it's getting barraded? We didn't loose, we beat the world champions, there are positives to take from that.

- A solid back four
- Contained Spain to long shots
- Found weaknesses (made them loose focus)
- Boost to morale and belief

As noted, positive outcomes breed a positive environment. We could have gone out and most likely got smashed, what is it with people refusing to take anything from this. I'm no management material but even I can see there are more positives gained then negatives by going out with a stance to contain rather then explore. I mean for one you can see where the huge gap in Spain is now, as the midfielders push up the gap is created between them and the defenders, something which I thought Welbeck did pretty decent to get into.

Yes, but we have an incoming coach change, and a change of generation. It won't happen overnight and will take a number of years for this to happen. We can't change it now and we can only do whats best with the players we have infront of us, which I believe we did.

 

[Bahumat]

Jesus has Everz been on the alcopops again? If you want to discuss football then please do so. But stop the "your view is different to mine omg you have no life skills arghhhh I am Alex Ferguson!"

 

[Everz]

Come again? Where have I mentioned anyones life skills or bought that into it? Read.

It's a debate last I understood, you take peoples points on then return with your own views.

 

[Bahumat]

I said life skills as its funny. You go on about people cannot grasp things, have no knowledge, do they even watch football, tin pot leagues, plastic fans, can't see past blinkers, you're one of the select few who understand football, no one else does. leave the door open and USING CAPS TO BE PATRONISING (pictures everz violently shaking Calaen screaming "ACCEPT MY VIEWS!"

I agree with points on both sides, but I don't see why you are so angry towards everyone on this? All that does is cause people to think "he's showing his age".

 

[Everz]

As it seems like I'm talking to a brick wall? .

 

[Bahumat]

It's a debate last I understood, you take peoples points on then return with your own views.

And insult them in the process? You're not the only one to have done this on this topic, but you've been by far the worst

 

[Everz]

Whilst also being by far the most active on it. Boom. But seriously, take it on the chin if it offends you that bad. Insults come out when points aren't going through, if you think i'm getting mad or angry then you are severly mistaken.

 

[Bahumat]

I think we learnt valuable lessons on how to contain big teams who excel at technique and passing. Yeah we parked the bus, but if we had better players on such as Rooney who can pass brilliantly, and hold up the ball we would not have had to rush or attack as much.

Our counter attacks were too fast for our own good and I never thought we looked like scoring.

xavi has said on countless times "stop picking the big kids for younger leagues. When they are an adult they will be the same size as everyone else, but with no skill or technique or intelligence".

Until we put a widespread change in to the youth systems we will never get anywhere. England will never stick with it though. One year down the line it will be scrapped.

 

[CorNokZ]

Not going to bother with this anymore

Enjoy your thread Everz

 

[Everz]

I think we learnt valuable lessons on how to contain big teams who excel at technique and passing. Yeah we parked the bus, but if we had better players on such as Rooney who can pass brilliantly, and hold up the ball we would not have had to rush or attack as much.

Our counter attacks were too fast for our own good and I never thought we looked like scoring.

xavi has said on countless times "stop picking the big kids for younger leagues. When they are an adult they will be the same size as everyone else, but with no skill or technique or intelligence".

Until we put a widespread change in to the youth systems we will never get anywhere. England will never stick with it though. One year down the line it will be scrapped.

One year down the line we will have a new coach though Bahu, a wave of change will come through then, best doing with what we got now and then usher a new era in after the Euros. Rooney upfront on his own though? He doesn't have the discipline for such a role.

Devastating, just passing time at work at all Corn.

 

[Calaen]

One year down the line we will have a new coach though Bahu, a wave of change will come through then, best doing with what we got now and then usher a new era in after the Euros. Rooney upfront on his own though? He doesn't have the discipline for such a role.

Devastating, just passing time at work at all Corn.

What Bahu is talking about has nothing to do with the head coach, it's about the FA making the requried changes and telling the coaches of the respective levels what is requried of them. We could have Alex Ferguson in charge next year and it would be for nothing, it's the formation/play style that carries on through the system not the coach.

We cannot play the way we played on Saturday with Rooney in the team he'd get frustrated and sent off. Lampard, Gerard, Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry and a couple of others no doubt, are all major influences on a weekly basis with their respective clubs, throw on an England shirt and it looks like they've been told to devolve their game.

 

[Everz]

Yes that I agree and it's what is being done already to a certain extent, to improve football at grassroots level and upwards. But it'll take a long time before any fruitation of that become evident, as noted, It'll probably be a good few years before we'd see any sign (at a senior level) of that if the change was to happen.

Not much about the head coach, but with Capello gone an usher of change throughout the whole system is what should happen, fucking Pearce off would be the first move.

Not so much as devolve there game but there just not as good in an England shirt as they are for their respective clubs, different surroundings and players help. Both Ronaldo and Messi are pretty shambolic for their countries despite them both arguably being the best players in the world.

I agree hugely that there should be a generation bought through together but we both know that won't happen, or being bought through young, but that requires consistency at all levels, something I highly doubt the FA will ever do.

 

[Bahumat]

What Bahu is talking about has nothing to do with the head coach, it's about the FA making the requried changes and telling the coaches of the respective levels what is requried of them. We could have Alex Ferguson in charge next year and it would be for nothing, it's the formation/play style that carries on through the system not the coach.

Yup spot on. Can't write much more as I hate using my phone and FH is blocked at work

Regarding Rooney though, I would not have him on his own. No real pace or dribbling skill limits what he can do. Put him up front with another striker and he will drag defences round all day whilst still providing a good passing ability.

 

[Vladamir]

^^ Could be a viable option if Wellbeck does enough at club level with Rooney to justify their pairing at international level too.

 

[Everz]

Yup spot on. Can't write much more as I hate using my phone and FH is blocked at work

Regarding Rooney though, I would not have him on his own. No real pace or dribbling skill limits what he can do. Put him up front with another striker and he will drag defences round all day whilst still providing a good passing ability.

Oh yeh, sorry, I actually looking back misunderstood what you said.

I agree throughly that change is needed at a premium. Rooney for me lacks tactical discipline to have such a role, having him with another striker is a blessing though and as Vlad said, Welbeck would be the perfect option as he can do holding up and being the 'target' brilliantly imo.

 

[Bahumat]

What's everyones opinion regarding our midfield. Who should be part of it?

Scott Parker for me is the guy who can read play and allow others a bit more creative freedom as he protects the back four.

Wilshere as he has skill, technique and vision.

On the wings I guess Ashley young because he is fast, good at set pieces, can use both feet so is hard to predict.

Not sure about right wing. definitely not Milner as he has no pace. Downing is too one footed and Crosses with random accuracy! Maybe Walcott due to pace etc?

 

[Bahumat]

If we needed a more defensively sound unit we could drop Wilshere for Barry?

 

[Everz]

What's everyones opinion regarding our midfield. Who should be part of it?

Scott Parker for me is the guy who can read play and allow others a bit more creative freedom as he protects the back four.

Wilshere as he has skill, technique and vision.

On the wings I guess Ashley young because he is fast, good at set pieces, can use both feet so is hard to predict.

Not sure about right wing. definitely not Milner as he has no pace. Downing is too one footed and Crosses with random accuracy! Maybe Walcott due to pace etc?

Parker a certainty, his reading is brilliant and with him being there it allows the other midfielder to push forward.. who I agree with you and should be Wilshere. He has the grit, technique and the whole range of abilities to get the team forward, his performance against Barca in the CL was a credit to his ability.

Young again, on form and ability should be a certain pick. The thing with Milner, although no pace, his technique and passing ability is pretty damn good. Downing is as said, way to one footed and inconsistent, similiar to Walcott who blows hot/cold but who I think should still be an option as his pace does terrify.

Johnson perhaps? or maybe even Sturridge could be an option there.

Upfront I'd certainly go with Welbeck/Rooney partnership, they play together at club/country then and could forge a good understanding.

RB should be Richards, LB should be Cole, the CBs however is difficult as both Jagielka/Lescott had a stormer and looked solid.. can't choose that one at all.

 

[Everz]

If we needed a more defensively sound unit we could drop Wilshere for Barry?

I thought Rodwell did a good job defensively when he come on and has been playing in the role excellently for Everton.

 

[Calaen]

What's everyones opinion regarding our midfield. Who should be part of it?

Scott Parker for me is the guy who can read play and allow others a bit more creative freedom as he protects the back four.

Wilshere as he has skill, technique and vision.

On the wings I guess Ashley young because he is fast, good at set pieces, can use both feet so is hard to predict.

Not sure about right wing. definitely not Milner as he has no pace. Downing is too one footed and Crosses with random accuracy! Maybe Walcott due to pace etc?

For me, Young (he's the best we've had on the left for years), Wilshere (everything you said plus more (looking forward to a Cleverley Wilshere partnership!!!!), Parker (on current form, and because he knows his role), Johnson (pace, can use both feet well, scores goals, makes intelligent runs, and always threatens with an end product). Rooney + another up top

 

[Everz]

Completely forgot about Cleverly, but with him being in there would it force Wilshere to play a much more deeper role as Cleverly seems to be pretty effective as the more advanced midfielder.

 

[Vladamir]

For me, Young (he's the best we've had on the left for years), Wilshere (everything you said plus more (looking forward to a Cleverley Wilshere partnership!!!!), Parker (on current form, and because he knows his role), Johnson (pace, can use both feet well, scores goals, makes intelligent runs, and always threatens with an end product). Rooney + another up top

Agree, but we'll cram Lampard Gerrard Barry and Walcott in there no doubt

 

[Bahumat]

Parker and Wilshere. Barry and cleverly as their substitutes. Cleverly is good, but Wilshere has more experience and will play more club games I think.

Agree about Richards. His pace and size makes him a nightmare to get past.

Johnson I like, also against a team with poor aerial ability both him and young could swap wings to get Crosses in from the byline?

 

[Bahumat]

I do like lampard, but he is immobile and without workhorses doing the running for him he is a waste. Also I don't think he excels in an area which means we should cater for him. Also he is another year older next year. Wilshere will be at the next world cup so we should integrate him now.

Gerrard has great passing and set pieces, but again injury problems and age come into question.

 

[Everz]

Parker and Wilshere. Barry and cleverly as their substitutes. Cleverly is good, but Wilshere has more experience and will play more club games I think.

Agree about Richards. His pace and size makes him a nightmare to get past.

Johnson I like, also against a team with poor aerial ability both him and young could swap wings to get Crosses in from the byline?

I honestly don't get why Richards isn't first choice, he's good defensively and good at going forward. It's an absolute mystery to me.

Thing with Barry is that if we going for the future then Rodwell would be the best choice as Barry will be what.. 33/34 when the next WC comes?

 

[Bahumat]

Fair point about Barry.

 

[Calaen]

Cleverley was more for the next WC as opposed to these championships, but I am hoping he get a go in the next few friendlies because he is so mobile nad his range of passing is very nice for a young lad, you could go Wilshere, Cleverley, Parker then Young, Rooney, Johnson as a forward three!!!

That way you can swap out Young, Johnson for Wellbeck, Sturridge!! It's pretty much the way all the big teams in the league play now with a potential 3 players up top. BUt his relies on being able to retain posession and being aggressive when you do have it.

 

[Keitanz]

We are nowhere fucking near Germany, don't backtrack on yourself by firstly saying we are shit then saying we are on the same damn level as Germany.

I don't remember saying the entire England squad is shit, but the team we played on Saturday was incredibly shit and was missing some of our best players. Milner on the wing is a ridiculous joke, while I like Johnson, he should be playing more upfield rather than defensive, MR/AMR.. he will be quality there..

Our first team easily matches Germany's team.... Hart/Cole/Terry/Rooney/Young/Lampard/Gerrard/Jones/Bent are all quality players... by the way, I was quite impressed by Walcott on Saturday, looks like he is improving so much every season, he will be a important player for us in years to come I think.

 

[Everz]

Germany arguement died long ago, the last time we met? 4-1.