thatchers died

[Wij]

There was also a strong element of tribalism and bullying in the unions in the 70s. Despite the professed Marxism/Socialism of many of the bosses they were run on patriarchal power structures which gained their acceptance through intimidation.

 

[Ctuchik]

Now Britain was indeed inefficient compared to other countries, but that was all fixable,

Most everything can be fixed with a big enough effort. The question one must ask is if it's worth it.

Would she had been more popular if she had fixed it? I doubt it because it probably would have meant that she had been forced to sacrifice something else instead.

She just would have been hated no matter what she did.

 

[rynnor]

Irrelevant to your thesis.

Not entirely - the point I was making was that the port became rich on the back of other imported resources not from local wealth creation.

 

[rynnor]

I once worked with a very senior Trade Union official (who happened to be a scouser btw ) in the civil service and it was a real eye opener.

He never did a jot of work at the job for which he was paid because the bosses were shit scared of him and he lived to call pointless and petty strikes which often were against the basic interests of his union members and with no chance of achieving anything positive.

He was articulate but utterly and completely cynical - clearly just working the system as hard as he could.

 

[Wij]

Not entirely - the point I was making was that the port became rich on the back of other imported resources not from local wealth creation.

The industrial revolution was driven by two factors:

• Cheap fuel (easy access to coal near the surface)
• Ability to question the status quo (religious diversity as a result of the reformation allowed more free-thinking than most of continental Europe)

Slave-labour and imports were available to many European countries but the Industrial Revolution happened here primarily for the above reasons.

 

[Tom]

the regions known as the north east and north west have always been dirt poor

What a load of shit. Haven't you ever been to Liverpool, Manchester or Newcastle?

Jesus, the tripe some people talk.

 

[Everz]

What a load of shit. Haven't you ever been to Liverpool, Manchester or Newcastle?

Jesus, the tripe some people talk.

All the above have been extremely prosperous in the past, including my own city.

Many blame her for the reason that Wolverhampton is a jobless shithole, a city that heavily relied on the manufacturing industry but is now barren.

 

[fettoken]

Some Swedes with no connection what so ever seem to be cheering regarding her death. Yes, it was on Facebook. I know.

 

[Yoni]

I really don't know how many of you lived through the pre maggie years. I can tell you it was no joke. As I said she did what she needed to do for the country (as well as a few mistakes but she wasn't Jesus and neither are any if you!).

Gaf is right though about the number of terms. The longer they are in power the worse it gets. 2 terms I plenty!

 

[Hawkwind]

I can remember as a kid using candles during the power cuts when the national strikes were in full swing. The army was recruited to act as firemen. Was not a good time at all.

 

[Job]

In this country a third of the workforce makes the money to pay for the other two thirds.
How this is supposed to work without some magic money tree I do not know, it is doomed
to end very nastily indeed.

 

[DaGaffer]

Not entirely - the point I was making was that the port became rich on the back of other imported resources not from local wealth creation.

Wrong. The triangular trade relied on the import of cotton but the export of finished goods back to the Empire, which was all done in Northern Mills.

Whether you like it or not, the North was wealthy all through the Victorian era, wealthier than the south in fact (except London); there was even a serious discussion about moving the capital north. You only have to wander around Manchester or Liverpool or Leeds and look at the old buildings, it was local wealth built all those grand town halls and townhouses. The real growth of the midlands came in the 20th century, thanks mainly to Lord Nuffield.

 

[Ormorof]

In this country a third of the workforce makes the money to pay for the other two thirds.
How this is supposed to work without some magic money tree I do not know, it is doomed
to end very nastily indeed.

actually something closer to 90% of the workforce makes the money for 10% who hide most of their money in off-shore tax havens, while the media owned by the top 10% try and blame the bottom 10%

on the historical side the North East was prosperous hell even Hull once was one of the busiest shipping ports in the world - but in fairness the decline in many of these cities had begun way before Maggie came to power due to Steel & Coal becoming less & less profitable

 

[Job]

Liverpool was the second port of the greatest Empire on Earth and if you come up here for a look before the
fucking talentless developers finish turning it into green glass anytown, you'll see the leftovers of extreme wealth and a stark lesson in the cycle of life, once boasting more millionaires that anywhere in the world, Bootle is now a fucking shit hole.
Toxteth is remembered for the riots, it is actually crammed with beautiful buildings that would fetch 5 million in London, boulevards and beautiful parks, all tainted by the raga sses who lived in it after the rich moved out, though it is picking up again.

 

[DaGaffer]

Most everything can be fixed with a big enough effort. The question one must ask is if it's worth it.

Would she had been more popular if she had fixed it? I doubt it because it probably would have meant that she had been forced to sacrifice something else instead.

She just would have been hated no matter what she did.

Its worth it if you want a balanced economy. Over-reliance on a single sector is bad, as we're finding out. I'd be more forgiving of the complete abandonment of manufacturing if it had been done for purely economic reasons, but there was definitely a large ideological element to it as well.

 

[Job]

actually something closer to 90% of the workforce makes the money for 10% who hide most of their money in off-shore tax havens, while the media owned by the top 10% try and blame the bottom 10%

Very big picture true, but we can't go on with a 150 billion welfare bill and a third of the workforce being employed by the state, for every thirty quid in tax I pay , when I get around to paying it, 10 goes to the welfare and ten goes to the public sector, which leaves everything else being shored up by VAT, petrol and road tax.

 

[Olgaline]

Some Swedes with no connection what so ever seem to be cheering regarding her death. Yes, it was on Facebook. I know.

Cheering over anyone's death (with the rarest of exceptions FH disclaimer tm) is a fundamental and basic example of mind numbing stupidity and ignorance!

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not celebrating her death. I definately am not mourning either. She successfully destroyed whole communities and industry where I grew up. Some of the jokes I've seen I've had a good chuckle at and I'm also not going to apologise for that. She was a cunt. But her death is rather irrelevant. It could be argued it may have been useful 30 years ago. But now, she's just another old woman who's gone back to the mud, like we're all going to at some point.

 

[Ctuchik]

I'd be more forgiving of the complete abandonment of manufacturing if it had been done for purely economic reasons, but there was definitely a large ideological element to it as well.

Sure there was an ideology behind it. It's kinda the base foundation of politics everywhere.

If she had done things differently it would still have been based on her ideologies.

But yes, without the ideology she had Britain would probably be in a better situation than they are today...

Or in a different situation at least...

 

[Wazzerphuk]

 

[Scouse]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8&feature=youtu.be

 

[Raven]

rough dike.

 

[Raven]

edit.

Rough dike talking a whole load of bollocks for 10 minutes.

 

[Hawkwind]

She is absolutely the worst kind of socialist, the ones rich enough to have socialist ideals

 

[Embattle]

Yeah but it isn't as if we really needed a back slapping recall since there are much more important things to do.

 

[Job]

Obviously everyones an inherent socialist..its part of the human makeup to care forthe disadvantaged...its just us right wingers have seen the idea have the living piss taken out of it by people who cant face realityandare taking everyone into a pile of shit while screaming at those who come along and say thats enough.

 

[Scouse]

Obviously everyones an inherent socialist...

Bollocks. Humans are clearly violently facist in nature. Just like the chimpanzee.

Altruism and caring for others are hard sells, even now with our supposedly "evolved" sensibilities.

 

[Chilly]

altruism is built in, but not "global" altruism where you help people you dont know. it's more about protecting the family genes.

 

[Scouse]

altruism is built in, but not "global" altruism where you help people you dont know. it's more about protecting the family genes.

Sure. In your own family.

In wider society? Hugely limited. If we are to talk about our economic system in the language of darwinian evolution - there's a massive selective disadvantage for the majority to act in an altruistic manner.

 

[Job]

I was thinking far more simplistically..humans have a strong impulse to help someone in trouble regardless of group connection..but we switch it off for all kinds of bizarre reasons of context.