thatchers died

[Punishment]

Atleast job knows what he is talking about rather than following what's "Trending" and following the other sheep.

She did some stupid shit like flooding the mines allowing the H block prisoners to become mayrters and the like but she did a better job that whats come after her.

R.I.P. Maggie

 

[Deebs]

So I'm guessing a lot of people here don't remember, or weren't born in the 70s, it wasn't all. Abba and Charlie's angels' the country was bankrupt, proper riots' strikes like you've never seen, 3 day week because everyone was on strike, power cuts, can you imagine that now' the miners union stopped the coal and the country ground to a halt' I remember sitting in a candlelit room because the power workers walked out' the police balloted for strike, we were bordering on the army controlling the streets

I remember this. I also remembered wanting to shoot every fucking cunt like Scargill. Remember when the Green Goddess' were on standby....? Fucking strikers.

 

[Job]

 

[Aoami]

I can understand the need to take the unions down a peg or 2, but to strip them of any power was too much. If the unions were still relevant the minimum wage would be much higher, more british people would be happy to do crap jobs and would reduce the need to import so much cheap foreign labour. Imo.

 

[Tom]

Take them down a peg or two? They controlled the government, bypassed local and national democracy. You were forced into membership, forced to pay your dues, forced to strike whenever they wanted - and they wanted to strike at every opportunity. Scargill wanted to ignore the results of a general election and force the collapse of a government.

How many miners still heat their homes with coal? Their industry was dying, it had no real future. Sorry lads, as Tebbit said - get on your bike.

I don't agree with everything she did but I'd rather have a Margaret Thatcher figure at the helm than the wishy-washy PR men we're getting now. Cameron isn't a great leader, but by God can you imagine Ed Milliband? Thatcher would have destroyed him with her intellect and ambition.

 

[Gwadien]

Would be interesting to see if this thread is representing a north-south divide...

The reason im pro maggie is purely because of the boom the country was in over the Blair years, no one knows the results if it was just another puppet prime minister who was in charge. Maybe the Germans wouldve got pissed off that we were competing with them as the European industrial powerhouse and would start WW3 who knows...

I agree with Jobs POV but its just daft to compare us with Somalia.

 

[DaGaffer]

Would be interesting to see if this thread is representing a north-south divide...

The reason im pro maggie is purely because of the boom the country was in over the Blair years, no one knows the results if it was just another puppet prime minister who was in charge. Maybe the Germans wouldve got pissed off that we were competing with them as the European industrial powerhouse and would start WW3 who knows...

I agree with Jobs POV but its just daft to compare us with Somalia.

Since me, Tom and Job are northerners...no. NB. You can't ascribe the boom in the Blair years to Thatcher's legacy; there was actually a downturn in the early 90s and millions of people were in negative equity for a while. I never liked Blair, but the Tories under Major were a waste of Oxygen as well and Labour in '97 really did seem like a change for good after the sleazy Tories (how little we knew). The only thing I can take from looking at politics over the years is that no party should be allowed to stay in power for too long; two terms max seems to be about the limit before the power goes to their heads completely and they go from being major twats to absolutely unbelievable cunts.

Yes, the Somalia line was silly, but the winter of '78 was incredibly bad; it did feel like everything was about to collapse for good. It was my first term at boarding school and I remember having no school dinners because the dinner ladies were out (and I'm pretty sure it was "in sympathy" with some other lot) and the buses were on strike so we couldn't leave. It was like being Colditz that first term, but with added bin liners from all the rubbish piling up uncollected.

 

[Aoami]

Take them down a peg or two? They controlled the government, bypassed local and national democracy. You were forced into membership, forced to pay your dues, forced to strike whenever they wanted - and they wanted to strike at every opportunity. Scargill wanted to ignore the results of a general election and force the collapse of a government

The miners strikes were something different and obviously that couldn't carry on but to destroy the unions the way she did was to take away everything they could do right as well. Im by no means a bleeding heart socialist but having lived for some time in a very socialist country where the unions do things right, I can safely say the workforce are much better off because of it. With regards to the miners, I wasnt alive so I dont know exactly how bad it was so I only have second hand sources to go on. My dad is from a small mining town in the Welsh Valleys which to this day has the cheapest house prices in the UK. He is an intelligent man and knows the mines had to go at some point but its the fact whole communities were made redundant by their government and offered absolutely nothing in return that angers him. Places like Abertillery are still paying the price for it 30 years on.

 

[Raven]

If she didn't destroy the unions we would be in a fuckton more trouble than we are now. The public sector already enjoy over inflated salary and benefits and need to cut back, they would need to be decimated if it wasn't for her. Can you imagine bin men on 40k?

 

[DaGaffer]

The miners strikes were something different and obviously that couldn't carry on but to destroy the unions the way she did was to take away everything they could do right as well. Im by no means a bleeding heart socialist but having lived for some time in a very socialist country where the unions do things right, I can safely say the workforce are much better off because of it. With regards to the miners, I wasnt alive so I dont know exactly how bad it was so I only have second hand sources to go on. My dad is from a small mining town in the Welsh Valleys which to this day has the cheapest house prices in the UK. He is an intelligent man and knows the mines had to go at some point but its the fact whole communities were made redundant by their government and offered absolutely nothing in return that angers him. Places like Abertillery are still paying the price for it 30 years on.

I live in a country where the unions still have real power. It is not a good thing. The public sector in particular refuses to accept reality.

I remember my HR course at University, going through all the various Employment Acts the Tories had to bring in to unpick the straightjacket the Unions had put on to employment since the War; it was fucking ridiculous. Secondary picketing and sympathy strikes in particular were just insane.

As for the miners; I'd take issue with the "nothing in return" line. In areas where there were pits and pretty much nothing else; (parts of South Wales, South Yorkshire) there was widespread deprivation, but unfortunately that was an economic inevitability, the pits were going to close sooner or later and people would have to move. In other areas where there was more economic diversity in the first place (Kent, Nottinghamshire) the move away from mining has been relatively painless and there was a shitload of retraining money available. Don't forget, most of the pits didn't close down 20 minutes after the strike ended, the bulk of them went 5-10 years afterwards, so its not like people didn't have a good warning. Also, one individual needs to take responsibility for miner's deprivation during the strike and its not Margaret Thatcher. Arthur Scargill refused to follow the law of the land on official (secret) ballots, so the strikers were "illegal" making benefits for their families unobtainable. It was a piece of political posturing that he was never called to account for. The NUM also only paid strike pay to miners on picket duty, despite having the second largest fighting fund of any British Union (only the TGWU had more). If you stayed at home, you didn't get paid (ironically).

 

[leggy]

The only thing where I think she made a fundamental mistake was abandoning manufacturing and technology for the financial services and the so-called "service economy". Yes, we weren't competitive, but Germany and even France have proved that you can be a high cost economy and still compete if you're productive enough. I think she didn't believe in technology as a strategic asset.

As an engineer, I couldn't agree more. It makes me (reasonably) sad to continually purchase equipment and the associated technical services from an affluent German city. These aren't small time manufacturers either; they are global entities where the BEST products of their class are produced. And like you say, the organisation still remains fiercely competitive.

 

[Aoami]

Pay people more, tax them higher. Government recoups some of its money in the public sector and makes a profit through private. Having worked in employment law in local government I would agree that there are too many staff but not that the ones that should be there are paid too much.

 

[Raven]

We also import a lot of mechanical and electrical equipment, there is no reason that it is not manufactured in the UK except for the fact the industry isn't there. Government can't fart out manufacturing companies, they made it more than easy for people to start up though.

 

[Gwadien]

Why have I got it in my head you're Irish DaGaffer or do you just live there?

 

[dysfunction]

Why have I got it in my head you're Irish DaGaffer or do you just live there?

He just lives there (a few years now I think) but talks like he's been there 20 years!

 

[Job]

Just look around the world who is praising her and who is slating her...

 

[Aoami]

The people directly affected by the good things she did are praising her and those directly affected by the bad are slating her. Wow, what a turn up.

 

[Tom]

Well I did sound for a live transmission yesterday, a day's pay for me. So basically, even though she was dead, Margaret Thatcher put several hundred quid in my pocket.

So stick that in your pipe lefties.

 

[Scouse]

So I'm guessing a lot of people here don't remember, or weren't born in the 70s, it wasn't all. Abba and Charlie's angels' the country was bankrupt, proper riots' strikes like you've never seen, 3 day week because everyone was on strike, power cuts, can you imagine that now' the miners union stopped the coal and the country ground to a halt' I remember sitting in a candlelit room because the power workers walked out' the police balloted for strike, we were bordering on the army controlling the streets

Yep. That's the sort of shit that happens when people are protesting for a living wage.

Thatcher cut their ball off and now we have interns working for free in poundland like slaves.

she did a better job that whats come after her.

She's the cause of what's come after her. Laissez-faire was implemented by her (and Regan) - run by the tories shortly after and adopted by labour (Tony's famous "Third Way") - and it's resulted in the global crash we see today - that's costing lives in real terms and producing financial devestation and poverty.

The rich have got (a lot) richer, the poor have got poorer - and the public are bailing the companies out with our tax money and cuts to our services.

But nowadays we lack the fight to care about it - even Mervyn King was surpised at the lack of rioting. Why? Because we learned our lessons well under Thatcher. And the lesson is: We can riot, strike and picket all we like, but we don't matter and nobody cares.

We don't even care about each other any more. She atomised the social bonds that were present at the time. No society? Well, not after Thatcher...

 

[Everz]

Yep. That's the sort of shit that happens when people are protesting for a living wage.

Thatcher cut their ball off and now we have interns working for free in poundland like slaves.



She's the cause of what's come after her. Laissez-faire was implemented by her (and Regan) - run by the tories shortly after and adopted by labour (Tony's famous "Third Way") - and it's resulted in the global crash we see today - that's costing lives in real terms and producing financial devestation and poverty.

The rich have got (a lot) richer, the poor have got poorer - and the public are bailing the companies out with our tax money and cuts to our services.

But nowadays we lack the fight to care about it - even Mervyn King was surpised at the lack of rioting. Why? Because we learned our lessons well under Thatcher. And the lesson is: We can riot, strike and picket all we like, but we don't matter and nobody cares.

We don't even care about each other any more. She atomised the social bonds that were present at the time. No society? Well, not after Thatcher...

This I agree with, no one (including myself) give an utter fuck about this country and the people living within it.

 

[Wij]

Scouse. The unions were at least as big an old boys network as Etonian toffs in the 70s. A few elite union barons decided how the country was run, often against the wishes of their members. As someone pointed out on R4 this morning they would often trade off the packages of women members to the benefit of the packages of male members. It was a rotten system and needed to be removed. Whether you like what she replaced it with is a different matter but you could at least agree that rather than implying that union barons were brave paragons of workers rights.

 

[chipper]

i wont be shedding a tear she was a ruthless vindictive women who systematically destroyed the north of england for her own political gains. she took the miners strike personal and made the north suffer for it for her entire tenure at no 10.
after the pits closed there was no effort from the government to put the miners back to work or finance new work avenues.
the tories did NOTHING to help rebuild the devastated communities she let us rot all the while bolstering the south both my parents worked 50-60 hour weeks and barely made ends meet the unions which were i agree too powerful were destroyed in every area and where barely a shadow of there former selves. we had people working hard jobs for long hours for little return. all the while all the new jobs formed in the financial area allowed people to get rich quick ie the south

labour rebuilt yorkshire, and gave it jobs, i work on the site of what was one of the largest pits in south yorkshire that remained waste ground and slurry pits for over a decade after its closure. i am no fan of labour i hate the benefits culture they have allowed to happen. but forever and a day i will never vote tory because of her. she is the reason for the north south divide.

and while im not glad she has died and i think its deplorable that people are celebrating i will not be giving her credit for anything other than sticking it to europe and the argies. she didnt like us and we will never like her or the tories they same time heals all wounds well nearly 30 years on some of those scars are still very visible in the north

 

[rynnor]

She gets blamed for many things that began long before she was PM but I guess people need someone to hate rather than looking closer to home.

Chippers long rant above - the north has always been poor - even the industrial revolution was a midlands/southern thing.

I heard someone blame her for the death of manufacturing despite it being in decline from the 50s.

We became horribly innefficient and expensive and our quality was crap = extinction.

She did some stupid stuff later but she did save the economy - it then took over a decade of labour overspending to screw it up.

 

[chipper]

its not about the north always been poor rynnor if you intend to make nearly 200,000 people redundant it would be prudent to have something in place to to get them all back in work asap? this was her doing she pulled the plug on the mines rightly or wrongly my point is she didnt do anything to help the workers after. she basically said i win you lose now suffer cos i wont be helping you.

 

[Gwadien]

its not about the north always been poor rynnor if you intend to make nearly 200,000 people redundant it would be prudent to have something in place to to get them all back in work asap? this was her doing she pulled the plug on the mines rightly or wrongly my point is she didnt do anything to help the workers after. she basically said i win you lose now suffer cos i wont be helping you.

Would you work in a mine, now? Have your community and your local workings man club where you have your community shenanigans. Or do you what you're doing now?

 

[Everz]

Would you work in a mine, now? Have your community and your local workings man club where you have your community shenanigans. Or do you what you're doing now?

You'll do what you need to do in order to get money, it's what we call the real world.

I'm a trained accountant yet have worked as a leafletter, labourer and a hand-rail fitter as my last three jobs, aswell as working in retail and a bookies before that. It's anything to make ends meet, I'm guessing the communities up north were forged because of that mentality as it was in the Midlands.

 

[chipper]

i wouldnt want to work in a mine never said i would. your missing the point where im working now didnt pop up till labour got in. im saying she closed the pits and just left the sites derelict. labour secured funding to renovate the old pit site, the industrial site i and many other units occupy

mining was the industry of yorkshire it was a guarnteed job if u like the generation then isnt as up its own ass as it is now and did what they had to to make ends meet

 

[Ctuchik]

I heard someone blame her for the death of manufacturing despite it being in decline from the 50s.

Technically she probably did. It was bleeding badly and she just pulled the trigger to end its misery so to speak.

 

[rynnor]

Technically she probably did. It was bleeding badly and she just pulled the trigger to end its misery so to speak.

Supporting ineffecient nationalised industries turning out crap products that no one wanted was never going to be sustainable - the others were just too weak to do what was neccessary.

 

[Tom]

i wouldnt want to work in a mine never said i would. your missing the point where im working now didnt pop up till labour got in. im saying she closed the pits and just left the sites derelict. labour secured funding to renovate the old pit site, the industrial site i and many other units occupy

You can't just close a mine and build on it. Polluted land like that has to remain unoccupied for around ten years before anything happens to it. Unless, that is, you enjoy the prospect of working or living on land polluted by decades of industrial use.

There was significant mining activity where I grew up, in Radcliffe, although it'd all been worked out by the second world war. But we also had a coal fired power station (closed before my time) that left huge, I mean huge piles of slag on the surrounding landscape. It was under a Conservative government that it was all cleaned up and returned to nature, it now forms part of the Outwood Trail (http://www.bury.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4524).