Tanks, too much love?

[hotrat]

Ok we all know tanks got a lot of needed love with RA's

I been thinking about determination and think its fully acceptable to reduce root duration on tanks, root to a tank is as effective as mezz and was very unfair before.

Now the last level mezzes which last a long time so they are effective vs high level mobs, but lasted way too long in rvr. Mythic adds body resist buffs and make resists effect mezz length, then also add ae drop-off. Still for some reason mythic also thought to reduce mezz duration on tanks as well but not on other classes.

I accepted this at first but now I wonder why should tanks get such an advantage, yes they dont have ranged damage but they also don't wear cloth armor. I can think of no reason why all classes didnt get a seperate RA that reduced mezz by say 10% per level and was same cost for everyone like 1 point, 3 point, 6 point etc, instead of only tanks who get 1 RA that reduces root/mezz and stun !

Then recently I began thinking about stun as well, and this is what really annoys me. Why should a tank get reduced duration on a castable stun? They still get full duration from a melee stun but for some extreemly unfair reason they can shake off any castable stun in 1 or 2 seconds.

WHY should tanks be so immune to stun, if anything it should be casters who get more immunity to stun.

Imo stun should be left as it is, its all very well reducing a cc that lasts 1 minute to 10 secs, but reducing something that lasts 9 secs to 1 sec is plain stupid.

Like I said in another post tanks should get say 75% root, 50% mezz reduction, casters 75% mezz, 50% root, and hybrids 50%/50%. Oh and stun left as it is.

Just a thought

 

[iluvatur]

agree 100%

 

[Sohan_THC]

don't agree 100%

 

[pez]

everything you say makes sense more or less from a gameplay point of view but i think mythic still cling on to some idea of universe and roleplaying so from that poin of view, no casters shouldn't get determination. Except maybe half ogre casters to make up for how shit they look.

 

[gunner440]

nerf us

 

[Rg.Roller]

nope sadly i dont agree 100% i think cloth casters need sum sorta immunity timer or somthing installed but for a tank, getting slammed for the full duration then being pbaoe'd happen's 95% of the time vs hibs. To give hibs the usual grp purge plus thier pbaoe casters mezz/stun resistances would be a lil silly in my eyes.

As for albs well i can see u have a semi point, i think mythic are just making up for all that time when tanks didnt have ra's and did F*** all in rvr and i mean F*** all apart form leave the tk and wave a sword around abit.

hummmz more discuss...

If you really want to give pac healers the wtfpwn AE insta mezz full duration then...... on your heads be it. If your classing an insta as being part of the "casted" spells

 

[hotrat]

From a roleplaying point of view a caster would be much more resistant to mezz than a tank, stronger mind, will power etc Same goes for castable stun.

 

[behatch]

remove RA's-altho then rvr may be bit pointless

 

[vortimer]

Originally posted by hotrat
From a roleplaying point of view a caster would be much more resistant to mezz than a tank, stronger mind, will power etc Same goes for castable stun.

and mythic lacks in roleplaying. how can a tank with no idea of magic avoid that easily mezz and stun? clap mythic clap. Seems they are retarded. determination reduced to 10% is ok, but 15 is too many imho.

 

[Shaurr]

I think minstrels are way overpowered. They need a nerf. Make em wear cloth when using an instrument.

 

[kirennia]

bandwagon jump?

 

[belth]

Drop Det to 5%, keep cost same for tanks, give it to everyone else for double price, maybe?

 

[pez]

Originally posted by hotrat
From a roleplaying point of view a caster would be much more resistant to mezz than a tank, stronger mind, will power etc Same goes for castable stun.

The way i meant it was tanks are these big mindless brutes who shake off anything you throw at them because they are so 'determined.'

Whereas although casters are intelligent they are frail. I can't imagine a wizard being determined and shaking off spells as if they were water. admittedly it becomes alot less clear cut when you consider strength of mind and things with regards to mez.

 

[iluvatur]

imo, casters who spec a certain way should gain resistances to that damage ie a ice wizard who can control the elements of ice should be able to repell some of that attack. casters in general who have to be fully concentrated to cast in the first place should gain a resist to mezz.

but in general

1) take out all active ra's replaced by passives
2) take out all instas from every class
3) cap resists at 26%+racial+ aom
4) keep resist debuffs in but dont let them drop resists into negative
5) take out all stuns, replaced by snares, slow attacks etc

i'm sure i could think of more, but enough wajn for now

 

[iluvatur]

oh and realm points and realm abilities are not what rvr should be about... soemtimes i see no point in rvr than to just go out and kill... we need something to rvr for apart from some relics that noone cares about and a crappy dungeon to farm money/items to buy better equip to go out and kill more... *sigh*

 

[hotrat]

Well like I say determination is fine with respect to root, its when you consider how it effects mezz and even worse castable stun that makes it way too powerful.

Also mezz lasts too long on casters and hybrids atm, it needs a reduuction on all classes not just tanks (but not 75%, more like 10% per level, and 1 3 6 10 14 cost).

 

[Jiggs]

determination is not the issue

ae mezz is the issue

 

[Dorin]

stun stays as it is :

debuffed ! ffs stuned, dead... old times come back, good for my chanter bad for everyone else.

 

[hotrat]

Yep annoying when chanters do that, and currently they can still do it to every class except tanks, unless the person they are nuking has purge.
Thats only powerful cus chanters should never have been able to debuff their own damage, most forms of castable stun aren't as easy to use as that.

 

[Amadon]

nerf them into the ground

i agree with what u say tho

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

- all classes should have access to determination (5% per level)
- remove aom from tank RA table (mages dont get avoidance of pain either)
- increase aom from 3% to 5% per level (will make mages less vulnerable to other mages and CC will stick shorter)
- calculate resist buffs percentually and not as points (ie not +24 but x1.24)
- reduce aoe mezz length to max 40 sec delve

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
- all classes should have access to determination (5% per level)
- remove aom from tank RA table (mages dont get avoidance of pain either)
- increase aom from 3% to 5% per level (will make mages less vulnerable to other mages and CC will stick shorter)
- calculate resist buffs percentually and not as points (ie not +24 but x1.24)
- reduce aoe mezz length to max 40 sec delve

Nice ideas, I would like to see insta mezz removed personally, some changes to interrupts or something would be nice too.

Cheap tank ra's are killing most hybrids too, they are not as wanted in grps because standing around for almost the full duration of a high lvl mezz renders them useless and purge at 30 mins is a saving grace just once in a while.

Game needs a lot of tweaking for rvr, just to balance and counter balance the different abilities the realms get and not just RA's either.

 

[hotrat]

- all classes should have access to determination (5% per level)
- remove aom from tank RA table (mages dont get avoidance of pain either)
- increase aom from 3% to 5% per level (will make mages less vulnerable to other mages and CC will stick shorter)
- calculate resist buffs percentually and not as points (ie not +24 but x1.24)
- reduce aoe mezz length to max 40 sec delve

Yep I agree with all these idea's. Although if all classes get determination it definately shouldnt effect stun. AoM idea I love that. Yer resist buffs were a cheap fix to reduce damage of casters, but some realms get the 24% ones easily, others only the 8% kinda unbalanced.

 

[tildson]

remove resistbuffs

 

[Kagato.]

:bore:

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by iluvatur
imo, casters who spec a certain way should gain resistances to that damage

like say, mind-specced sorcerers - that focus on mezzes and gain mezz reduction not only for themselves by a good amount, but also for their group in a smaller amount?

sounds good to me tbh, let's implemen... oh, wait.

 

[Sortbane]

ouch.. just struck me..

Critics and the fans of the game, and the general community of the game says that daoc is such a success because the aspect of post 50 LvL and a RvR as it is, how come then that there are so many whines out here?

back to the topic, I agree and also dont agree with the topics in this thread, because I have a healer and a warrior, and I play them all the time (except from now, since I'm in the norwegian army atm.. ) But bring on more ideas and this might become a good idea for both parts, just giving the casters det isnt going to cut it, might as well remove det from the game and reduce mez/stun length. Dont think everyone will be happy with the game even if it was perfect etc.etc.

Everyone strives for perfection, but when they got it, they can only look back on the memories trying to get it and reckon it to be the best time of their lives and thus ruining their illusion of perfection..
That's all it is, nothing more than an illusion never to be attained or owned by anyone, that's why we want it because we cant have it.. - Quote some non-action movie a while ago

 

[hotrat]

Mezz reduction on a mind specced sorc was an excellent idea, fairly pointless as 9 times out of 10 some tank kindly breaks mezz on me anyway but still a nice idea.

As for the group mezz reduction I don't use that anymore I prefer speed, mostly for my clerics, but it also helps me and occasionally my tanks

Sortbane I will say the game has come along way since release, and determination is better than nothing at all, I cry at low RR tanks who don't have it and are mezzed/rooted all fight long. However I see no reason why other classes should still suffer from long mezz's, especially hybrids and casters.

Reducing mezz length by 50% (including body resist) for all players and changing det to effect root only sounds like a pretty good fix to me Ideally the highest level mezz needs to last around 20 seconds so that it has some effect but doesnt leave you standing around for the entire fight. Don't forget you can still be demezzed, or purge, or if its the edge of the radius it will only be 10 sec.

 

[Khalen]

I don't think I wanna move back to the time when we all got mezzed and nuked 1 by 1 without any means to do something back (when purge is down). There was a good reason they added determination and it was to make tanks live longer in RvR (and so it did). And yes a bit of tuning might be ok but ain't that with a lot of things? Mythic just shifts balance everytime a little to some classes to make em attractive for people to pick. So they keep people on a line, which means more money for them because people keep playing. And yes ofc some tweaks are ok but some aren't

There are just a gazillion things you could adjust a little but to test em all is insane...

 

[Pandemic]

remember that b4 determination was introduced this was darkageofcastalot where tanks were only rp cows for casters to power lvl their rr
i know that most casters want to see this back again and all quickly get to rr10 but it wasnt much fun for tanks