Tanks, too much love?

H

Hedek

Guest
I totally agree with you Mindrat, and it's totally fair imo that pure tanks have a nice RA that gives such a nice root decrease because a rooted tank is a useless char. Unlike hybrids who can sill do *some* things while rooted (reavers can interrupt / debuff, champions can dd / debuff, friars can heal, thanes can cast etc) but indeed a rooted tank can't do ANYTHING. But why would they be so immuned from mezz and stun ? A mezzed caster is as ineffective as a mezzed tank. And what about the 9 sec stun ? Among all classes it's the pure tanks who are the least afraid of a 9 stun. I mean with 2000k+ hits 27%+ absorb there isn't *much* we can do against you in 9 secs but 9 secs... is enough for any class (except druids / healers / bards / clerics of course) to kill a cloth caster.

Imo determination should be totally reviewed to a 1 / 3 / 6 cost RA that gives 25% root reduction 50% root reduction 99% reduction (meaning the last lvl gives an almost total root immunity by reducing a to 1 sec length).

No RAs should affect mez duration except the ones that increases magical resists BUT all mez spells should have 50% of the PvE length delve value. RvR fights are too different from PvE to have Mythic to make spells work the same in both. I think it just proves lazyness to code 2 different spell systems which is in fact really needed and they prefer to add more and more RAs to reduce differences between effect of spells in PvE and RvR.
 
D

Driwen

Guest
Originally posted by Pandemic
remember that b4 determination was introduced this was darkageofcastalot where tanks were only rp cows for casters to power lvl their rr
i know that most casters want to see this back again and all quickly get to rr10 but it wasnt much fun for tanks

however didnt resists get increased by SC and SI quests by then? If this goes in, it might be more of a question who gets the drop on you. If purge is down, but might that not be better than that only a pure tank group is a valid choice?
 
A

Amadon

Guest
Originally posted by Pandemic
remember that b4 determination was introduced this was darkageofcastalot where tanks were only rp cows for casters to power lvl their rr
i know that most casters want to see this back again and all quickly get to rr10 but it wasnt much fun for tanks
yeh coz tanks were the only ones that were mezzed.. casters were all immune to it...
tbh I think most players (casters and tanks) want to see a balanced game, not the piece of shit tank centric game it is now.
 
W

Whisperess

Guest
Originally posted by Pandemic
remember that b4 determination was introduced this was darkageofcastalot where tanks were only rp cows for casters to power lvl their rr
i know that most casters want to see this back again and all quickly get to rr10 but it wasnt much fun for tanks
isn't it fun now that it's the other way around then?

( hint: no )
 
H

hotrat

Guest
I don't think I wanna move back to the time when we all got mezzed and nuked 1 by 1 without any means to do something back (when purge is down). There was a good reason they added determination and it was to make tanks live longer in RvR (and so it did).
Imagine a group of say 1 minstrel, 1 paladin, 2 clerics, 2 reavers, 1 friar, 1 scout. Nobody has determination so if this group gets jumped they will literally be killed 1 by 1. This is what im trying to explain its fine that tanks get a shorter mezz (although 75% is too much, 50% should be the cap), but why shouldnt other classes as well? tanks now live longer in rvr, but casters still die just as fast, as do hybrids.

remember that b4 determination was introduced this was darkageofcastalot where tanks were only rp cows for casters to power lvl their rr
Not just tanks were rp cows, everyone was, I remember my theurg being killed in 2 bolts all the time while my only long range spell was summon earth elemental which most of the time got mezzed or rooted and did nothing. Also like someone else pointed out that was before resist buffs and SC, now with most ppl having 50% resists casters damage output is fine (resists should be capped at 50%).
Also it was only dark age of castalot for some casters, my theurg relied on his 179 cold damage dd, and almost everyone had high cold resists in those days and my nukes would often only do around 260(-100) damage.

Imo determination should be totally reviewed to a 1 / 3 / 6 cost RA that gives 25% root reduction 50% root reduction 99% reduction (meaning the last lvl gives an almost total root immunity by reducing a to 1 sec length).
I think 99% root reduction would be far too powerful, 75% reduction (like you get at determination 5) is about right, it gives me enough time to root a tank on me and move away, 99% reduction would make it totally pointless to ever root a tank.
 
B

Belomar

Guest
Seriously, all of you who are not agreeing with Hotrats' points can never have played a caster in RvR. It is bad, real bad.
 
S

StormriderX

Guest
Remove ip from the game as well as resist buffs + resist debuffs imo.
 
C

cjkaceBM

Guest
Why not make assassins immune to mez?

And then make mez break if the mezzer gets whalloped?

Would make all assassins instantly group friendly. :)
 
D

Driwen

Guest
Originally posted by StormriderX
Remove ip from the game as well as resist buffs + resist debuffs imo.

nooo :(, ip and purge is the one thing hunters need to stay balanced vs assassins :(. Which might mean that one needs luv or other needs a nerf, but until then keep in mind that mythic fucked up badly and did balance with RA's so removing IP will mean that assassins will be more powerful or atleast among the other stealthers.
 
T

tildson

Guest
IP could go, i woulnt really care.

If resistbuffs go, then PBAE needs to be lowered in some way.
 
P

Pandemic

Guest
Originally posted by StormriderX
Remove ip from the game as well as resist buffs + resist debuffs imo.

cool with me i never use ip and i'd happily have my resist buffs removed if resist debuffs also got removed any day :)

but i dont get the amount of people on here who seem to want a total determination removal there would be no point in playing the game as a tank then

yeah determination can be modified i have no problem with that but returning it to a game where casters just kill me unless i have purge or the healer does is a bit retarded
 
W

Whisperess

Guest
Originally posted by Pandemic
but returning it to a game where casters just kill me unless i have purge or the healer does is a bit retarded
but playing a game where tanks just kill me unless I have purge or the healer does is right here, right now!

I play both tank and caster, and I agree - standing around being able to do nothing feels useless, but trust me, casters feel like that too. And it is a fact that 'gank groups' are built around determination.

That, my good troll, is ruining it for the others.

I'm not saying you should stand around there for about a minute being caster fodder; but neither should casters.

Even if a caster get unmezzed, a sneeze by that loghery man two hills away will interupt her, rendering her useless yet again - even if not CC'd.

Or take a spiritmaster for example ( as I play one of those it comes in handy ).

Even if I'm unmezzed, uninterupted ( say MoC for instance ) and perfectly placed; BAoD can reduce my nukes to 20 (-680), for instance.

So before throwing out the 'tanks are useless' part - play a caster, enjoy spending hours at mtk - if you can't get either a guild group or a pity group, then enjoy the world of resists / interupts / determination / insta death and mezziscts. ( sound evul, doesn't it? :D )
 
P

Pandemic

Guest
Originally posted by Whisperess
but playing a game where tanks just kill me unless I have purge or the healer does is right here, right now!

I play both tank and caster, and I agree - standing around being able to do nothing feels useless, but trust me, casters feel like that too. And it is a fact that 'gank groups' are built around determination.

That, my good troll, is ruining it for the others.

I'm not saying you should stand around there for about a minute being caster fodder; but neither should casters.

Even if a caster get unmezzed, a sneeze by that loghery man two hills away will interupt her, rendering her useless yet again - even if not CC'd.

Or take a spiritmaster for example ( as I play one of those it comes in handy ).

Even if I'm unmezzed, uninterupted ( say MoC for instance ) and perfectly placed; BAoD can reduce my nukes to 20 (-680), for instance.

So before throwing out the 'tanks are useless' part - play a caster, enjoy spending hours at mtk - if you can't get either a guild group or a pity group, then enjoy the world of resists / interupts / determination / insta death and mezziscts. ( sound evul, doesn't it? :D )


i do play a csater currently more than i play pandemic although thats not by choice :)
yeah thats why i said determination can be modified. just dont remove it.
spending a few hours at mtk? i went through months where i was spending up to 8 hrs a day waiting for a grp with pandemic
i get in a grp in 1 second playing as my caster alt (my bb)
 
B

Belomar

Guest
I'm sorry, but a Shaman is not a caster. You have chain, for God's sake, and that's just for starters.
 
P

papasouzas

Guest
Just some thoughts...

1. Remove INSTANTS CC spells - Instant casting is CHEATING imho. You can give quickcast to all 'casting' classes instead.

2. INCREASE the effectiveness of SINGLE CC spells and REDUCE the length of AREA CC spells - a caster should rely mainly on 'single target' but powerfull spells and be able to STOP one target but not an entire FG.
It kinda anticlimatic to fight EPIC scale battles... and most of my comrades SLEEP... its just reduculous that ALL battles involve who lands the MEZZ first.

3. Determination should be toned down a bit and given to ALL classes - still will be cheap for tanks.
 
S

Shaki/Aeis

Guest
Great post!

But you should post it on VN boards too, so Mythic got a chance to see it.
 
K

Kallio

Guest
Thane was superior to warrior back then, could kill casters solo with mine ^^

But now, warrs are ok and everyone think that thanes suck cause... cause... well... they dont have det... and uhh...
 
B

BidAccount

Guest
Intersting thought.

Make CC like focus damage shields (but with the same maximum timer). Move, do something else or get smacked and down it goes.
 

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