Stun on casters yet again :(

[Jergiot]

the moment you get debuffed you have ~2 secs to yell for healers to save you, not our fault you don't run with a friar for resists or stand idle while being debuffed/stunned

^ and smite isntr supposed to do as much damage as specnukes, is it?

not out fault u dont run with more mentas when u whine about not having enough demezzers in grp in NF either, right vf? xD

 

[Vodkafairy]

not out fault u dont run with more mentas when u whine about not having enough demezzers in grp in NF either, right vf? xD

never whined about it, just said in current group setups there's only one, and dropping anything for a menta would mean losing utility

same for albs and the friar :>

 

[Krane]

Tbh the best caster in the game is the sorcerer..

Eldritch comes very close after sorc, but imho sorc is still better even without base stun...

 

[Jergiot]

Tbh the best caster in the game is the sorcerer..

Eldritch comes very close after sorc, but imho sorc is still better even without base stun...

agreed. hi krane xD

 

[Clipse]

Tbh the best caster in the game is the sorcerer..

Eldritch comes very close after sorc, but imho sorc is still better even without base stun...

I don't like j000. I don't know why.

 

[Clipse]

Tbh the best caster in the game is the Eldritch..

Loghery Men comes very close after Eldritch, but imho Eldritch is still better even without proc stun...

 

[Danamyr]

main problem with cleric stun is you can't quickcast it in a jam.... usually being interrupted too much and no QC on the cleric (or healer)

He asked for a Cleric to answer the question Glam...not a smitzor!

 

[Dreami]

Hardly Iwin button.

 

[Hotrats]

I imagine stun must be useful vs targets without det such as clerics/paladins/minstrels etc, I agree most of the time you probably don't need it vs other casters, well not until you lose your power relics and have to face cabas/theurgs with level 3 BaoD

Eld is the best damage dealing caster in the game, sorc is prolly better overall though, especially when combined with a spirit caba, although eld is still very strong teamed with a chanter.

Pac/Mend healer is still the best non cloth wearing caster by far though.

 

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

no this thread is for whining about hib stun, and i counter it with saying alb have just as annoying stuns

we also have annoying stuns? please.. where? in base line? i dont think so.. cleric stun is shit... how many clerics do u see stunning like all hib casters do? oh thats right they dont cos clerics are our primary healing class so they heal.. dont even try to bring cabalists into this .. the amber pet stun isnt a repeatable casted stun.. i cannot tell my pet to stun you over and over so i can sit there have a cup of coffee eat a donut and still have time to debuff kill you in 3-4 nukes.. mythic have already said giving hibs basline stun was a mistake, and mark my words IT WILL be removed... just not high on theyre priorities... id be all for giving wardens AOE stun if they took away baseline from all classes.. and gave them root instead.

 

[Danya]

healer AE stun insta stun = though its support so i say its balanced

LOL, yes insta AE stun + pbae is very balanced.
The whole reason mid didn't have PBAE was because they had 11 sec ae stun... And then they got the best PBAE too, goooo Mythic!

As for clerics, I get stunned by them all the time, so they do use their stun. It wouldn't really ruin a whole moc tho, cleric stun is far too short even on a caster (most hibs run with warden resists so you're looking at 4.5s stun from a cleric).

 

[Tahn]

hib stun is only overpowered in bg1

 

[Vodkafairy]

please.. where?

please, read the thread before trying to look smart and you'd know where

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

no this thread is for whining about hib stun, and i counter it with saying alb have just as annoying stuns

and where did you get the insta bit from? i never even said anything remotely close to insta in my post

caby pet n air theurg pets afaik ISNT a 9? second stun hence your fucked if your stunned. + MOST theurgs are ice/earth. hence the stun from LOW level air pets are extremelly small duration and dont last as long. where as the hib stun is a BASE line spell.

as for not having friars in grp to help with resists.. is that why hib gank grps dont run with champs/valewalkers (and in many cases no wardens) ? friars dont bring much to grps till next patch due to lack of det, and friars aint part of a "fotm alb grp" whereas unless im mistaken always a warden in hib grps? and i dont think u ahve them JUST for there resists. it would be for pbt right?

p.s even with 50% fire resists debuff+nukes can hurt like fuck and in many cases kill sum1 before stun wears off with todays cast speeds.

when was last time u got stunned by a mincer n got dealt 1.5k+ dmge within the space of 9seconds? (waits for sarcastic reply of everytime when his inf pet pa's u)

when was last time a air theurgs low level air pet stun u and theurg done 1.5k+ dmge in th short durations tun there pets have?

when was last time a cabby pet (if the stun one) stuned u n cabby done 1.5k+ dmge to you before stun wore off?

if full spec wind theurg and nuking cabby stuns you. yes they can do some nice dmge... but there pet stuns are v small duration and u can at least get in range and interupt them.. hence there is a small chance of survival. where as if a hib caster stuns u . your dead if purge not up.

whre as 1v1 v a hib caster soon as your stunned your fucked cos of the dmge they are capable off. im sure if fire wizzys or ice wizzards had baseline 9second stun and hibs didnt the whines would be going the oposite direction..


imo put the stun in SPEC line and not base line... and not in the most common specline. cos putting it in most common line would be like putting slam in a scouts bow spec of wind nukes in theurgs eart specline.

and with stun being in specline that aint used as much as main one . it will see more variation in specs hence more varied fights,
instead of the ussuall /qc stun pbae pbae pbae /bow /emote thnx for the free rp's

end of the day if u hibs noobs cant see how daft it is . try duel your own casters sometime n see how many fights u win . im betting the caster who stunned u wins 90% of the duels.

 

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

please, read the thread before trying to look smart and you'd know where

i didnt need to read the rest... your retarded arguments made me look smart long before i bothered to point out the obvious.

 

[Asty]

LOL, yes insta AE stun + pbae is very balanced.
The whole reason mid didn't have PBAE was because they had 11 sec ae stun... And then they got the best PBAE too, goooo Mythic!

Yes thats so often used tactic these days... so overpowered....

 

[Eluvia]

caby pet n air theurg pets afaik ISNT a 9? second stun hence your fucked if your stunned. + MOST theurgs are ice/earth. hence the stun from LOW level air pets are extremelly small duration and dont last as long. where as the hib stun is a BASE line spell.

as for not having friars in grp to help with resists.. is that why hib gank grps dont run with champs/valewalkers (and in many cases no wardens) ? friars dont bring much to grps till next patch due to lack of det, and friars aint part of a "fotm alb grp" whereas unless im mistaken always a warden in hib grps? and i dont think u ahve them JUST for there resists. it would be for pbt right?

p.s even with 50% fire resists debuff+nukes can hurt like fuck and in many cases kill sum1 before stun wears off with todays cast speeds.

when was last time u got stunned by a mincer n got dealt 1.5k+ dmge within the space of 9seconds? (waits for sarcastic reply of everytime when his inf pet pa's u)

when was last time a air theurgs low level air pet stun u and theurg done 1.5k+ dmge in th short durations tun there pets have?

when was last time a cabby pet (if the stun one) stuned u n cabby done 1.5k+ dmge to you before stun wore off?

if full spec wind theurg and nuking cabby stuns you. yes they can do some nice dmge... but there pet stuns are v small duration and u can at least get in range and interupt them.. hence there is a small chance of survival. where as if a hib caster stuns u . your dead if purge not up.

whre as 1v1 v a hib caster soon as your stunned your fucked cos of the dmge they are capable off. im sure if fire wizzys or ice wizzards had baseline 9second stun and hibs didnt the whines would be going the oposite direction..


imo put the stun in SPEC line and not base line... and not in the most common specline. cos putting it in most common line would be like putting slam in a scouts bow spec of wind nukes in theurgs eart specline.

and with stun being in specline that aint used as much as main one . it will see more variation in specs hence more varied fights,
instead of the ussuall /qc stun pbae pbae pbae /bow /emote thnx for the free rp's

end of the day if u hibs noobs cant see how daft it is . try duel your own casters sometime n see how many fights u win . im betting the caster who stunned u wins 90% of the duels.

Stun is handy no doubt about it, however i can 100% honestly say as a hib caster i would choose a 72 sec single target root over the 9 second stun,Heck u cant even say this is a 1 sided argument cus ive played a cabalist and sorc. in caster duels tho, if the enemy has no pet, whoever stuns first wins. In answer to ur thing about wardens, yes the warden is there for heals resists and bodyguard, all the same things a friar could do if they didnt spec melee. Infact wardens kinda get the short straw cus they hit like a pally where a friar can hurt shit. Friars actually get the same heals when push comes to shove cus fact is the warden spec heals take too long to cast. PBT isnt great atall,if it worked vs archers, sweet, but atm its nothing more than a very small extra.

If friars specced 48 enh 29 staff 34 Rejuve, they would actually be a better grp version of a warden lol.

I think the reason people are so upset about the 9 sec stun is the fact that ur so helpless during the duration rather than the effects, what u said about the stun pb pb pb is no diferent to qc a root, running back then nuking you to death, yet u dont class root as overpowered.

All in all mate, play it. and then you will know.

 

[Vodkafairy]

caby pet n air theurg pets afaik ISNT a 9? second stun hence your fucked if your stunned. + MOST theurgs are ice/earth. hence the stun from LOW level air pets are extremelly small duration and dont last as long. where as the hib stun is a BASE line spell.

pet stun is about 3 sec unaffected by resists or det, where hib castable stun lasts ~1 sec on tanks and ~7 secs on people with cap heat resist. also pet stuns dont give immunity and they proc quite often, so it's anywhere from a 0 sec (no proc) to indefinite stun (chain-proccing). level of the air pet doesn't affect the stun length, only the HP and dmg of the pet afaik. it's not my loss theurgs don't spec air -_-

as for not having friars in grp to help with resists.. is that why hib gank grps dont run with champs/valewalkers (and in many cases no wardens) ? friars dont bring much to grps till next patch due to lack of det, and friars aint part of a "fotm alb grp" whereas unless im mistaken always a warden in hib grps? and i dont think u ahve them JUST for there resists. it would be for pbt right?

pbt is pretty worthless, wardens are invited to groups mainly for resists and BG/grapple, which is the same roll friars would have. friars lack pbt and other useless fluff things, but they can still rezz and heal. they heal less than wardens, agreed, but still.

p.s even with 50% fire resists debuff+nukes can hurt like fuck and in many cases kill sum1 before stun wears off with todays cast speeds.

i know it does, caba debuffnuke hurts like hell too

when was last time u got stunned by a mincer n got dealt 1.5k+ dmge within the space of 9seconds? (waits for sarcastic reply of everytime when his inf pet pa's u)

mincers aren't a class to deal lots of dmg with in a short ammount of time, dunno why you even mention that

when was last time a air theurgs low level air pet stun u and theurg done 1.5k+ dmge in th short durations tun there pets have?

air theurg with decent resistpierce hurts, and even then theurg isn't main damage dealer in an alb group, it's there for interrupts and additional damage. they excell at interrupting, because air pets really fuck up any class that can cast, and they nuke for a good 400+ dmg on cap resists.

when was last time a cabby pet (if the stun one) stuned u n cabby done 1.5k+ dmge to you before stun wore off?

why do you keep mentioning the stun wearing off thing? do you think when you aren't stunned there is anything i can do when im debuffnuked? i drop dead in 3 nukes and if sorc/theurg assist properly then there is really nothing that can prevent me from dying except interrupts. there isn't shit i can do myself, stun or not. qc spell doesn't land before i'm dead.

if full spec wind theurg and nuking cabby stuns you. yes they can do some nice dmge... but there pet stuns are v small duration and u can at least get in range and interupt them.. hence there is a small chance of survival. where as if a hib caster stuns u . your dead if purge not up.

stun doesn't insta-kill anyone, and you can do damage even if the target isn't stunned you know.. what the hell are you on about? you make it sound like people have 100% magic resist unless stunned or something silly.

whre as 1v1 v a hib caster soon as your stunned your fucked cos of the dmge they are capable off. im sure if fire wizzys or ice wizzards had baseline 9second stun and hibs didnt the whines would be going the oposite direction..

ill say it again, hibs aren't capable of more damage than albs. true, we have relics, but that isn't related to game balance and has nothing at all to do with stun. i have played and play mid and alb quite often, stun isn't as lethal as you say.. just get someone to interrupt the mage the moment you get stunned.

imo put the stun in SPEC line and not base line... and not in the most common specline. cos putting it in most common line would be like putting slam in a scouts bow spec of wind nukes in theurgs eart specline.

nobody will spec it, because stun isn't that valuable

and with stun being in specline that aint used as much as main one . it will see more variation in specs hence more varied fights,
instead of the ussuall /qc stun pbae pbae pbae /bow /emote thnx for the free rp's

well agreed stun is very powerful when it comes to 1 vs 1 against a non-det class, but so is root. stun has a very short timer and it's a LOT better to root people hitting you than stunning them. when your qc stun lands (nice 2 sec wait) you will have interrupt timer 3-4 sec, then theres only time left for 2 casts until the stun fades

end of the day if u hibs noobs cant see how daft it is . try duel your own casters sometime n see how many fights u win . im betting the caster who stunned u wins 90% of the duels.

i was talking about fg vs fg, not 1 on 1, and as i said i have played alb and mid a lot and stun isn't much of a problem at all.

and just to make sure: if i nuke an alb mage that doesn't have friar resists, and i don't get interrupted, it will die. i don't bother to stun, because it will die before it can run out of range or before it can quick-cast. if albs had powerrelics cabas could do the same and they wouldn't need stun either

 

[Vodkafairy]

I think the reason people are so upset about the 9 sec stun is the fact that ur so helpless during the duration rather than the effects, what u said about the stun pb pb pb is no diferent to qc a root, running back then nuking you to death, yet u dont class root as overpowered.

that's very right.. it sucks being helpless, but you don't need a stun to be helpless against the insane casterdmg atm

but that's another issue than the stun itself

 

[Phule_Gubben]

sm's already have 2 different types of mez, and runie have nice stuff in dark/rc already, stop whining

still not baseline thou.

 

[vintervargen]

i'll trade my stun for zephyr if thats ok :>

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think the reason people are so upset about the 9 sec stun is the fact that ur so helpless during the duration rather than the effects, what u said about the stun pb pb pb is no diferent to qc a root, running back then nuking you to death, yet u dont class root as overpowered.

if you do the root thing I can use a charge to interrupt, cast an instantheal, or use my crossbow (depending on what class it is)

if I'm stunned I'm helpless

now to be honest most of the time you are dead anyway, but it's less annoying when you can run around like a headless chicken whilst dying than when everything is just locked up for an inevitable doom. It's the "debuff, stun - ahh shit I'm dead now and nothing I can do about it" that's the worst bit - when you get rooted there's still a chance.

(ok ok sometimes there's a chance when you get stunned that someone else will interrupt them but it's basically force majeure by that point )

 

[Flimgoblin]

i'll trade my stun for zephyr if thats ok :>

mmmm unpurgeable instastun with no immunity on a 2m timer

(ok so it's harder than the normal to land)

 

[Vasconcelos]

if you do the root thing I can use a charge to interrupt, cast an instantheal, or use my crossbow (depending on what class it is)

if I'm stunned I'm helpless

now to be honest most of the time you are dead anyway, but it's less annoying when you can run around like a headless chicken whilst dying than when everything is just locked up for an inevitable doom. It's the "debuff, stun - ahh shit I'm dead now and nothing I can do about it" that's the worst bit - when you get rooted there's still a chance.

(ok ok sometimes there's a chance when you get stunned that someone else will interrupt them but it's basically force majeure by that point )

You can QC (if a caster) when rooted, hence improving ur survival chances a lot e.g QC'ing a ns.

 

[rivan]

Root isn't comparable to Stun at all.

Rooted = cannot move, can cast spells, can cast instas, can qc
Stunned = cannot move, cannot cast, cannot use instas, cannot qc

Stun is THE most powerful ability in the game, maybe barring MLs. To be able to render someone helpless while you unload damage on them. Stun should be a tool for support classes to use to assist the damage dealers.

If you're going to give a spec nuker a stun, you'd logically make it a spec line ability (even after the dumbass decision to put it on a nuker in the first place).

Further more, AOE stun should not exist in any way shape or form, Single target is more than enough, and should be limited to support classes.

Stun, nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke with ToA castimes/damage and I am dead. I could have done nothing at all about that. Nothing. I hardly have time to register I'm stunned before I'm dead. It is overpowered, and I think it's obvious to most realms that it is.

Will it be changed? No. Is it I win? Vs some classes... pretty close to it.

 

[vintervargen]

solo vs non-det classes its OP, not in FG vs FG.

oh and if your a mid - get purge. you have 3+ demezzers in group so save it for stuns.

 

[kirennia]

Sure these chanters who say they'd rather have root then stun, maybe you'd like to swap stun/snare pet/debuff own base dmg type/speed/asd for root instead to have a straight swap with a wizard?

Don't think any albs would complain about that

And to people complaining about mid ae stun...it really isn't that bad Tbh it's nice to have immunity after a short duration stun. The only time it's great is when the group they jump have all /stuck the leader and no1 broke off before impact; Or of course at keep takes.

 

[Danya]

Chanters aren't directly comparable with wizard - they're closer to sorc or caba (I'm sure chanters wouldn't mind having some of the utility off sorc added to their class tbh, ae mez or something maybe ).
Elds are the counterpart primary nuker to wizards and they don't get a whole bunch of stuff in their damage line, like spec bolts for a start.

As for stun - don't normally bother on casters, especially albs as they are much less likely to have heat buff. Why bother when you 2-3 shot them out of mez before they can QC. Somewhat more useful on support to stop them running out of range or firing insta heals. Generally I prefer to assist a tank that slams or style stuns though - you get better stun durations.

 

[Spamb0t]

Stun, nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke with ToA castimes/damage and I am dead. I could have done nothing at all about that. Nothing. I hardly have time to register I'm stunned before I'm dead.

then it was hardly the stun that was the problem.. but the dmg
since u didnt even notice u were stunned before dead u shouldnt be able to do anything about it anyways

 

[Eredrin]

... how many clerics do u see stunning like all hib casters do? oh thats right they dont cos clerics are our primary healing class so they heal..

Druids are our main healers so druids never cast root just heal