Straight from The VN Boards

jax001

Fledgling Freddie
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Jun 17, 2005
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15
Basicailly I wanted you people over here to read this post from the Devon boards. A caster there was basically asking for stealthers to try and justify their ability to "stealth" saying it was overpowered to be invisable. The reply from a SB on Bedevere is prob the best post I have ever seen for someone defending the stealth community.


CASTER:
"I am genuinely interested in hearing the assknuckle community's theory on stealth. How do you justify what is essentially perma-invisibility at relatively low spec points with no cost of endurance or power and no penalty for having a dozen or more invisible people huddling together under the same fern leaf waiting for a solo Thane?"

SB REPLY:
-I justify it because, at least for my class, I'm exchanging stealth for better dps, visible groupability, basic melee class RAs, decent armor, higher hps and speccable defense. I justify it because assassins have had more direct nerfs to their effectiveness than any other class archetype in the game since archers, and even archers have had a lot of love come to them since NF. I justify it because ever since ToA came out "perma-invisibility" has changed to mean perma-invisibility except around PNs, people with SL or any kind of pbae/gtae attack. I justify it because tanks get determination, stoicism, IP, charge, etc to gain the initiative in a fight, casters get MoC, brittle guards, good rr5 abilities, ML9 pets, etc to gain the initiative in their fights, all we get is stealth. I can't IP when I start losing a fight, I can't MoC+LT when I start losing a fight, I can't shrug off a 1m+ mez or root because I have 85% CC reduction and I can't hit for 500+ every 1.2s against capped resists, all I can do is stay "perma-invisible" until someone comes along without all those things so I can fight them... except the only other people without at least one of those things is another assassin and SBs don't even do well there.

How do YOU justify casters who's dps does not scale with their haste like melee dps does? How do you justify a non-spec LT caster doing 500+ damage per cast on capped resists casting at nearly 1s? How do you justify being able to put up enough brittle guards and a BT so that you can eat 2 PA chains without taking a single hit? PA is the attack that was practically designed for killing casters, if tanks got an ability to put up 4 little pets that absorbed 1 nuke each how would the caster community respond?
 

Poag

m00?
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hehe good post.

Got a link too the Vn whine that followed?
 

Dalby

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
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never really thought of it that way..


But i agree, nice comeback and even tho i dont play a stealther, i almost feel sorry for the guy after reading his post....
 

Mabs

J Peasemould Gruntfuttock
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jax001 said:
if tanks got an ability to put up 4 little pets that absorbed 1 nuke each how would the caster community respond?

amen
stupid whinging casters :puke:
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
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now its casters that whine? i thought it was tanks that whined at castspeed and damage :)

same old utterly useless debate, its actually quite balanced now.. :p
 

Corran

Part of the furniture
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Vodkafairy said:
now its casters that whine? i thought it was tanks that whined at castspeed and damage :)

same old utterly useless debate, its actually quite balanced now.. :p

It balanced when people know how to interupt... if they dont then it not balanced. Which was why i took into account interupt code needing addressed before caster damage could be addressed in the consultation thread.

I bet that if you look at the damage output of tanks and casters across a whole night their actual dps is very close together (if they fighting people taht know what doing, not n00b groups :p )

Reason for this? A casters DPS can be shut down to 0 whereas a tank cant actually be prevented from causing dmg for long. Hit bodyguard you change target and you hit... a caster gets interupted and he got 4seconds before the next spell lands, not taking into account that if he is being attacked he still cant cast even after 4 seconds. If they didnt do alot of damage when they do get chance to cast, then it worthless having them in group.
 

Valgyr

Fledgling Freddie
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Corran said:
It balanced when people know how to interupt... if they dont then it not balanced. Which was why i took into account interupt code needing addressed before caster damage could be addressed in the consultation thread.

I bet that if you look at the damage output of tanks and casters across a whole night their actual dps is very close together (if they fighting people taht know what doing, not n00b groups :p )

Reason for this? A casters DPS can be shut down to 0 whereas a tank cant actually be prevented from causing dmg for long. Hit bodyguard you change target and you hit... a caster gets interupted and he got 4seconds before the next spell lands, not taking into account that if he is being attacked he still cant cast even after 4 seconds. If they didnt do alot of damage when they do get chance to cast, then it worthless having them in group.

Good answer, and i agree with the Sb as well, when me and bess lost to a warrior Zerker duo we just said well u cant win em all those classes are designed to be stronger in melee so it would be OP if a stealther we stronger then a light/heavy tank in pure melee. Ofc there are times u win but there are times u lose but that is how the game should be imo.

Take minstrel that many think is OP, it can be very strong in the right moments but is very weak at times when facing a high defence class like evade 7 spec shield spec parry, those DDs isnt enough to kill a 2500+ hp tank when u dont hit with melee:D
 

Iboha

Fledgling Freddie
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Sep 19, 2005
Messages
16
Another Execellent quote from that Thread.

" This suggests to me that there is an underlying guilt and knowledge of how lame stealth is among the stealther community. "

You're absolutely right.
It's akin to the guilt that keeps fat people eating the donuts.
I feel bad about stealthing, so I need to find something to do to make me feel good again. Sneaking up on people and sticking pointy stuff in them makes me feel kinda good for a little while, but then I feel guilty that I had to do it invisible, so I need more cheering up. It's a viscious cycle!
OMG, pass the donuts!

Page 2 Triglove
 

Chronictank

FH is my second home
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casters can be interupted
mellee chars cant
its as simple as that
thats why they have high dmg while they can cast uniterupted

there is no handicap on a melee char when they are toe to toe with a caster, just as it should be.

the only thing i would change is ML9 pets and jugger, which are completely and uttely stupid.
Yes i have various casters with the ability and buse it on a regular basis when i focus farm.

A pet should >>never<< be able to take down a tank 1 on 1 no matter how much it is buffed

nor should any stealther be able to take out a visible tank of equal rr if both are reasonably equal kitted
 

Gear

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ML9 convo has to change in NF, at the moment is ridicilous. My rr2 ML9 non-toa'd chanter, can take down a tank easily without casting a simple spell with a fully buffed ML9 pet. Just kite for a while, use an end potion, and you're ok. If I see em charge, I just pre-kite it with speed still up, then pet them.
 

Kami

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Feel free to give me some ML that's similar to MOC if you want to remove ML9 pet from that master level line.
 

Gear

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Kami said:
Feel free to give me some ML that's similar to MOC if you want to remove ML9 pet from that master level line.

Why? ML9 pet is retarded, moc is an RA. Do you really need something retarded to be usefull? If you do, you must re-evaluate your gamestyle.
 

Sollac

Fledgling Freddie
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Chronictank said:
casters can be interupted
mellee chars cant
its as simple as that
thats why they have high dmg while they can cast uniterupted

there is no handicap on a melee char when they are toe to toe with a caster, just as it should be.

so from this u say that a melle tank should butcher the pbaoe spamming oik, if thats the case then maybe casters should have a minimum cast timer of 2.5 secs like most of us tanks and then lets try again.

Casters have all the advantage at the moment unless, we can get in and slam u before you start the chain spamming.

casters should be easy kills for a tank but they aint...so bollox is wat u talk
 

Andrilyn

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jax001 said:
if tanks got an ability to put up 4 little pets that absorbed 1 nuke each how would the caster community respond?

By AoE nuking them..
Seriously, Brittle guards are too easy to take down I see no SB or any assasin for that matter whining about them who uses half their brain.
Though I do agree that Assasins have lost some strenght when ToA/NF was released but by no means shouldn't they still be able to still kill any caster 1v1 aslong as they use their brain for a moment.
 

Corran

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Wela-Gusa said:
delete all casters rr5+ with mls and this will be a nice game

Hah.

How about you look indepth at the life of a caster in rvr against good players and see how hard they have it at times. I had some fights last night where i casted one spell in the first 40 seconds of the fight because of mezz spamming, root spamming, insta dd's, banelord abilities etc. Tell me how many tanks have a 40second timer of not doing a single bit of damage. I couldnt even QC a spell as i had to QC root a pet of me most the time.

I play or have played every type of class (caster, tank, hybrid etc) at one point or another. I admit it sucks to be nuked down by a caster in seconds however i know that the moment i reached that caster i would kill him just as fast because he couldnt fight back.

At range tank cant fight back at a caster (that a lie though depending on class. Most got some sort of interupt from ml or class ability. Ra's add more choices depending on class). At close range a caster cant fight back at a tank (unless got certain ra's).

So basically it ends up who jumps who.. sure brittles etc give and advantage but so do some tank abilities.

As for stealther vs brittles... any decent stealth i met has casted the poisonmine and wiped teh brittles out just before they go for the PA. Deadly combination and there nothing a caster can do to counter that attack.. timed right they will kill you fast. Even if you QC cc them the DoT is still ticking on you from mine that can easily finish you off if they are crit spec
 

Chronictank

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Sollac said:
so from this u say that a melle tank should butcher the pbaoe spamming oik, if thats the case then maybe casters should have a minimum cast timer of 2.5 secs like most of us tanks and then lets try again.

Casters have all the advantage at the moment unless, we can get in and slam u before you start the chain spamming.

casters should be easy kills for a tank but they aint...so bollox is wat u talk
so a ra which costs 30 realm skill points and lasts 15 seconds is what you base your entire argument on?
/clap
tanks are by no means gimped
charge & det 5 anyone?
if your a stealther caster pops moc, mez poison?
asuming you havent already negated every other cast with run through skillz

be a good start to actually play a caster before whining about them
 

Jess

Loyal Freddie
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Actually the fact that both casters and tanks are wanted in groups today suggests that things are relatively balanced :)
 

AngelHeal

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omg, ok comparing Dragonfang, and diamond back was decent.

but a caster and a infil?:D omfg

i play both, and infils arent overpowerd... nether are casters :D (well except when i decide to leave my chanter at home. then they must be nerfed:D).

when solo:

arround 6 mines arround me. is 1500 dmg and 150% power leech.
3 brittleguards (sumtimes 4).
1 speedwarp.
1 stealthnode.
1 crystal titan.
1 pet. (wich I WILL ml9:>).

(and yes i camp in agramon, gives good rp even against fg's when u moc:p).

a infil cannot reach me, a mincer will have hard time when i purge, even withouth.. he must face the traps.

even moccing sorcs cannot win then. . i often see (after they walkeds over 2 dd mines and 2 power traps (is 100% power loss) they purge (2+) and moc (3), and find out they dont have any power left;>.

When a caster is settled he cannot be beaten 1v1.
When a caster is not settled, hes "easier" though still 3 brittle guards.. often mezz blocker up. pet (ml9?) purge? moc? gl stealthers.

though when those not up.. fwee wealmpoints.
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
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Chronictank said:
nor should any stealther be able to take out a visible tank of equal rr if both are reasonably equal kitted

lol. gratz for the most stupid comment this month.
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
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casters are stupidly over powered in a 1v1 situation, however in 8v8, or zerg v zerg if thats your bag i think its probably the most balanced it has been in a while.
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
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Chronictank said:
lol, gratz for the most stupid responce of the month

I feel an echo... -5000 in IQ?^^

So assassins shouldnt be able to kill tanks. Not even if they play better?

How about casters?

Whatever, I dont argue with idiots. Bai asshole, hope I dont have to see you again.
 

daoc_xianghua

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Corran said:
Reason for this? A casters DPS can be shut down to 0 whereas a tank cant actually be prevented from causing dmg for long.


i bet alor of the poor perma grappled light tanks see that different :D
 

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